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Thread: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

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    FOR CRYING OUT LOUD OVERPAID, not overpay

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  3. #2152
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    Watch them come back and win the game with Howard in the locker room.
    They weren't able to make up the 20 point deficit in time.... lol
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    me too.
    Clearly an embellishment. That's swerving off the road to avoid a falling mailbox lid.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by MAStamper View Post
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    a. For the record, for this season, Danny Granger is making $13,058,606, while Andre Iguodala is making $14,968,250, Luol Deng is making $13,305,000, and Rudy Gay is making $16,460,538.
    b. This means that for this season Granger is making $1,909,644 less than Andre Iguodala, $246,394 less than Luol Deng, and $3,401,932 less than Rudy Gay.
    When you look at these figures plus the contract of Joe Johnson ($19,752,645) you could easily say that Danny is paid market value, ESPECIALLY when you take into consideration that he averaged over 26 PPG in the season he signed his contract.

    Edit: he averaged 25.1 the season after. Just 19 PPG the yr before
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 01-21-2013 at 11:33 AM.

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  8. #2155

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy


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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    When you look at these figures plus the contract of Joe Johnson ($19,752,645) you could easily say that Danny is paid market value, ESPECIALLY when you take into consideration that he averaged over 26 PPG in the season before he signed his contract.
    I think all those guys are overpaid, Danny's injury and health issues makes him even more overpaid compared to the other players mentioned.

    Danny signed the contract before his 26ppg season by the way, he was averaging 19ppg at the time he signed.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I think all those guys are overpaid, Danny's injury and health issues makes him even more overpaid compared to the other players mentioned.

    Danny signed the contract before his 26ppg season by the way, he was averaging 19ppg at the time he signed.
    You're right here's the link http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3676045

    But just bc DG is hurt; he's not not necessarily over paid. "You can't sign a contract and say, well you might get hurt in 3 yrs, so we're gonna sign you for less" lol it doesn't work that way

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    If Lawrence frank could coach against the celtics 82 games a year, he'd be a happy man. He knows them like the back of his hand.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Will Bynum havin a nice run

  14. #2160

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    I've written this at least once a season for the last 6 or 7 years: Scott Hastings, the Nuggets color guy, is by far the worst announcer I've ever heard in any sport, at any level in my entire life.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    You're right here's the link http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3676045

    But just bc DG is hurt; he's not not necessarily over paid. "You can't sign a contract and say, well you might get hurt in 3 yrs, so we're gonna sign you for less" lol it doesn't work that way
    What's done is done, Danny deserved that contract at the time(even though we knew about his knee), that doesn't change the fact that he is overpaid now though, JO was overpaid and one of the reasons why he was overpaid was because he was injured, the same with Gilbert Arenas, Grant Hill, etc, injuries count too.

    And just so you know Danny was underpaid in the first few years of his new contract, too bad must contracts in the NBA are not descending.

  16. #2162

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    I doubt we give Hansbrough his qualifier ($4M) and we could renounce our Bird rights to him, which leaves us about $10M in pure cap space without West. Assuming West leaves, which I don't think or hope happens, then that $10M "might" be enough to get a guy like Milsap on a starting salary. Jefferson and Smith will likely be getting $12M + starting. We would still have several exceptions to resign Hansbrough or get a backup afterwards. Absorbing salary is another option, but I doubt you find a PF as effective as West on a salary dump. Boozer is also a band aid option as I'm certain he will get amnestied (Chicago is over the tax next year w/ 8 players).

    Hopefully West realizes the winning opportunity here and takes 9-10M per year over 2-3 years. Even at that salary, and assuming PG gets maxed and Lance is at 4-5M starting, it will be tough to keep Granger unless he is willing to take 8-9M and we can dump Green. Getting of out of Green's contract must be a priority. With the emergence of Lance, he's a 4th wing on this team and 3.5M is too much.

    I expect the LT to be about 73M as of 14/15 season.

    Starters
    Hibbert - 14.9
    PG - 13.5
    West - 9
    Granger - 8
    Hill - 8

    Main Bench
    Lance -5
    Mahinmi - 4
    Backup PF - 4
    Backup PG - 3

    Players 10-15 -4

    Total - 73.4M

    We have to get out of Green's contract though to even have a shot at keeping the core together. Another savings opportunity is if we can hit gold on a draft pick this year or next and they take a primary bench spot at backup PG or PF. Those picks will only make $1M per year.


    How are you planning on getting out from under Green's GUARANTEED contract? If he's traded you have to take back the same in salary, unless you can get some team under the cap to take him, and I rate that probability at slim to next to none.

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  18. #2163

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    IMO, Roy isn't overpaid because we had to retain him, and he was offered the max. Is he having a poor year this season offensively? Absolutely, but we're nowhere near as good without him, and this team, with Granger, has a legit shot at a championship, IMO. (Not a favorite, but a legit contender) so you have to pay him.

    Green and DJ are overpaid. Maybe Hill (But I don't know where we'd get a similar quality player at the point, for less so..). And I understand the Ian argument, but he's still a heck of a backup for 4 million.

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  20. #2164

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Bird called Dahntay right after midnight the year DJ was a FA, and signed him to a 4 year contract too. Being 1st or the earliest doesn't make it the best decision. Not to metion, I highly doubt Green was in that high of demand from other teams.

    You'd be surprised at the bench players who have TO years or numerous unguaranteed years on their contracts. Having patience can have it's benefits, and a player who has never succeeded in BB b4 his last 30 plus games isn't someone to rush into sign. I'll play the devil's advocate and ask how's that rushing in to signing Green paying off? As I've said b4, I wasn't against signing Green, I just don't like his FULLY GUARANTEED CONTRACT. IMO, it was poor management. If he ends up not being the player expected, the guaranteed contract makes it a blunder. If Augustin doesn't produce, he's only a 1 year mistake, and not a 3 year mistake.
    I'm not saying it was a good decision signing Green. I'm saying that the Pacers were going to sign somebody before Hill/Hibbert signed their deals. They weren't going to trust that their 3rd wing could be filled by the room exception (which is all they would have left after Hill/Hibbert signed and they lost all their cap space). That's not very much money to sign anybody decent. Delfino couldn't have even been signed for that little. The Pacers didn't have the luxury to be patient because their cap situation was about to dramatically change.

    And if you're going to sign a player that early in free agency, they're not likely to give you team options. If the Pacers could have waited a couple weeks, Green's demands would have likely gone down. Maybe he would even signed a deal with team options in August. But unless he dropped his demands all the way down to the room exception, the Pacers wouldn't have been able to be the team that signed him.

    Whether Green was the right person to pick is a completely different discussion. All I'm saying is that the fact that it was a fully guaranteed contract was a direct result of the timing of when they signed him. And the timing wasn't a mistake, but rather just the reality of their cap situation. Anybody they would have picked instead of Green would also have a fully guaranteed deal.

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  22. #2165

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dgreenwell3 View Post
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    FOR CRYING OUT LOUD OVERPAID, not overpay

    EASE UP! Vnzla primary lanuage isn't English. He stated this along time ago, and personally I think he does a very admirable job under the circumstance. I notice at times he uses no instead of not, and there is a few others words ( much for most) as well. To me it's no big deal, as I've seen much worse spelling and word usage from many on this forum.
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 01-20-2013 at 10:42 PM.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    anyone see that rumor the Grizz could be shopping Zbo? I think that would be a huge mistake on their part. rockets are said to love him and that makes two of us. The Rockets seem to love a lot of guys I liked for us Greg Smith, Beverley, Machado. The Rocket could be dangerous if they could get Zbo without giving him Parsons. Asik and Zbo would be a force. `


    If I was a Grizz fan id be pissed if they trade Zbo. Gay sure ,but I wouldn't trade Zbo.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    anyone see that rumor the Grizz could be shopping Zbo? I think that would be a huge mistake on their part. rockets are said to love him and that makes two of us. The Rockets seem to love a lot of guys I liked for us Greg Smith, Beverley, Machado. The Rocket could be dangerous if they could get Zbo without giving him Parsons. Asik and Zbo would be a force. `


    If I was a Grizz fan id be pissed if they trade Zbo. Gay sure ,but I wouldn't trade Zbo.
    I share the sentiment as well. The reason the Grizz became elite is not because of Gay. It's because of ZBo. And I will even say that Gasol's improvement was because he played together with ZBo. It would be a stupid idea for the Grizz to even shop him at this point, where they are enjoying so much success for 3 consecutive seasons.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    anyone see that rumor the Grizz could be shopping Zbo? I think that would be a huge mistake on their part. rockets are said to love him and that makes two of us. The Rockets seem to love a lot of guys I liked for us Greg Smith, Beverley, Machado. The Rocket could be dangerous if they could get Zbo without giving him Parsons. Asik and Zbo would be a force. `


    If I was a Grizz fan id be pissed if they trade Zbo. Gay sure ,but I wouldn't trade Zbo.
    It doesn't make any sense for Houston, Zbo is too old for their core.

  28. #2169

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    It doesn't make any sense for Houston, Zbo is too old for their core.
    Having an old guy who's playing better than any of their young PFs makes sense for them. It maybe just a short term, but he can certainly be the catalyst that will make them a better team.

  29. #2170

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubs231721 View Post
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    I'm not saying it was a good decision signing Green. I'm saying that the Pacers were going to sign somebody before Hill/Hibbert signed their deals. They weren't going to trust that their 3rd wing could be filled by the room exception (which is all they would have left after Hill/Hibbert signed and they lost all their cap space). That's not very much money to sign anybody decent. Delfino couldn't have even been signed for that little. The Pacers didn't have the luxury to be patient because their cap situation was about to dramatically change.

    And if you're going to sign a player that early in free agency, they're not likely to give you team options. If the Pacers could have waited a couple weeks, Green's demands would have likely gone down. Maybe he would even signed a deal with team options in August. But unless he dropped his demands all the way down to the room exception, the Pacers wouldn't have been able to be the team that signed him.

    Whether Green was the right person to pick is a completely different discussion. All I'm saying is that the fact that it was a fully guaranteed contract was a direct result of the timing of when they signed him. And the timing wasn't a mistake, but rather just the reality of their cap situation. Anybody they would have picked instead of Green would also have a fully guaranteed deal.

    I don't agree with your view that the Pacers had to sign Green early b/c of having to sign Hibbert and Hill quickly. I'll give on signing Hibbert early b/c the Pacers had to match Portland's offer in a certain time frame, BUT Hill didn't have to signed quickly. Walsh bid against himself and signed him early. If Walsh hadn't signed Hill early there was cap that could have been used to sign another player instead of Green.

    Remember the uproar on the board over their signing early that wouldn't allow the Pacers to be able to bid on amnestied players Brand and Scola? Vnzla still hasn't gotten over it.

    When did Augustin get signed? B4 or after Hill and Hibbert signed their contracts? I don't remember.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by 15th parallel View Post
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    Having an old guy who's playing better than any of their young PFs makes sense for them. It maybe just a short term, but he can certainly be the catalyst that will make them a better team.
    Even with him they don't have the pieces to compete for a Championship though, why bother? and by the time Zbo is ready to retire they still won't have a team to compete for a championship.

  31. #2172

    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    It doesn't make any sense for Houston, Zbo is too old for their core.

    The same could be said of signing DWest last year. You weren't overly excited about signing an old player coming off an injury. It seems to have worked out quite well. Z-Bo might just be what the Rockets need to take the next step.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    The same could be said of signing DWest last year. You weren't overly excited about signing an old player coming off an injury. It seems to have worked out quite well. Z-Bo might just be what the Rockets need to take the next step.
    I still feel the same way, I don't believe West is going to be here when the Pacers are ready to compete for a championship, Houston to me has bigger issues than the Pacers, issues that Zbo is not going to fix, yes he is going to make them decent but he won't make them contenders by himself, Zbo to me is just not the right fit for Houston.

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy



    HA

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    Default Re: 2012-13 NBA Random Thoughts Thread IX: Ode to Joy

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    My way to find out if a player is overpay or not is to compare them to similar players in the NBA, call it looking at "the green grass" or whatever, like I said before I believe that a team can have no more than 4 overpay players, an small market team doesn't have the luxury to overpay players, at this moment on the Pacers the only players that are producing over their salaries and are underpay in a way are West(this year), Paul George(rookie salary), Lance(second round contract), after that you look at the whole team and is hard to find a player that is over performing to his salary.




    Note that I'm looking to have a good conversation so those that feel the need to make smart a** comments please stay away, thanks.
    It's really easy to be overly critical and quasi-analytical when you look back on any situation, especially decisions made in free agency. You are the same fool who was begging them to sign Nene to $14 million or more per year. You call out many "overpaid" players--please show us your ideal roster for opening day of this season. You are also always there demanding the Pacers sign the next available guy named Carlos, Juan, Humberto or Jorge because he can do one thing better than the Pacer whom he would replace, yet you ignore the fact that the new guy would be a noticeable downgrade in multiple other aspects of the game. He rebounds well, but can't defend to save his life. He passes better than anyone on the court, yet he shoots 28%. How is that an upgrade?
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