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Thread: Will Paul George become a superstar?

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    Default Re: Will Paul George become a superstar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    ??

    PG has led the Pacers in scoring during the pre season, and was like top 5 in the league. If that's not worth being a starter then......
    Please do not put stock in preseason performance, especially when many teams do not provide heavy minutes for their best players.

    My point is that Paul George has Sloan some very good potential. But he has yet to show elevated performance on a consistent basis. If is not able to do so, the Pacers are not only better served to keep Granger for the long haul at SF, but may also need to look for a consistently good performer as their starting SG.

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    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will Paul George become a superstar?

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Please do not put stock in preseason performance, especially when many teams do not provide heavy minutes for their best players.

    My point is that Paul George has Sloan some very good potential. But he has yet to show elevated performance on a consistent basis. If is not able to do so, the Pacers are not only better served to keep Granger for the long haul at SF, but may also need to look for a consistently good performer as their starting SG.
    Poppycock. Star or not is one thing, but he's clearly a starter right now. He's top 10 in PER for his position, scores a respectable amount on above average efficiency despite very low usage, and is a top defender. He's easily a starting two guard, no potential about it, he is right now, at this moment.

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    Default Re: Will Paul George become a superstar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    High school players aside--a player RARELY becomes a Superstar. Most of the time when a player enters the league, they're already good, and by their second or third season they have reached superstar status.

    Guys like Lebron, KD, D12, CP3, etc had signs of dominating games within their first two seasons. Some even within their rookie season.
    My problem with this line of reasoning is that a player can only produce relative to the opportunity (role + minutes) he's given. All of the players you mentioned were given the opportunity to put up big numbers from the get-go. This isn't a knock against those players, as they each thrived in the major roles they were given, but it's unfair to compare their production to someone who played less than 30 mpg and was sixth on his team in usage rate. You could argue that if George was a future superstar, he would've been given a bigger role in the Pacers' offense, but we know from past experience that this reasoning doesn't hold. There have been multiple future superstars who played roles equal to, or lesser than, George's role in their first two seasons.



    Looking at the four players you mentioned, and the five (excluding Paul George) players I posted above, something interesting stand out: None of the four "instant superstars" were drafted any lower than fourth, and all played on teams that were sub-.500 during their first two seasons. On the other hand, all five of the developed superstars were drafted at 9th or later, and three of the five were with winning teams.

    Here it is broken down. Player, draft position, team record in their two seasons.

    Developed Superstars
    Kobe Bryant: 13th, 117-47
    Tracy McGrady: 9th, 39-93
    Steve Nash: 15th, 96-68
    Dirk Nowitzki: 9th, 59-73
    Scottie Pippen: 9th, 97-67

    Instant Superstars
    Kevin Durant: 2nd, 43-121
    Dwight Howard: 1st, 72-92
    LeBron James: 1st, 77-87
    Chris Paul: 4th, 77-87

    If you look at Paul George's draft position (10th), and the Pacers team he was drafted onto (79-69), it may be unprecedented in modern times that he would become a superstar right out of the gate. Playoff-caliber teams simply do not give late-lottery (and later) rookies the type of roles required to produce like superstars.

    If anyone disagrees, then here's a challenge: Find a player drafted in the past 20 years who became a superstar in his first two seasons while (a) being drafted 9th or later, and (b) playing on an above-.500 team those first two seasons.

  5. #54

    Default Re: Will Paul George become a superstar?

    I'm sure there's reasons to keep Danny over Paul if we had to choose, but I don't believe consistency is one of them. Danny's been a pretty inconsistent player.

    Paul just needs more reps. It as simple as that.

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    Default Re: Will Paul George become a superstar?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Future View Post
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    Maybe if he had the ball handling ability like a McGrady.

    He doesnt have that unfortunately and he probably never will.

    It is very difficult to develop that aspect of your game.

    he has very good ball handling
    Smothered Chicken!

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    Default Re: Will Paul George become a superstar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
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    he has very good ball handling
    No. That is the biggest stumbling block he faces. Granger has the same problem and has never, in my opinion, worked hard enough to improve in that area.....

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    Default Re: Will Paul George become a superstar?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    My problem with this line of reasoning is that a player can only produce relative to the opportunity (role + minutes) he's given. All of the players you mentioned were given the opportunity to put up big numbers from the get-go. This isn't a knock against those players, as they each thrived in the major roles they were given, but it's unfair to compare their production to someone who played less than 30 mpg and was sixth on his team in usage rate. You could argue that if George was a future superstar, he would've been given a bigger role in the Pacers' offense, but we know from past experience that this reasoning doesn't hold. There have been multiple future superstars who played roles equal to, or lesser than, George's role in their first two seasons.



    Looking at the four players you mentioned, and the five (excluding Paul George) players I posted above, something interesting stand out: None of the four "instant superstars" were drafted any lower than fourth, and all played on teams that were sub-.500 during their first two seasons. On the other hand, all five of the developed superstars were drafted at 9th or later, and three of the five were with winning teams.

    Here it is broken down. Player, draft position, team record in their two seasons.

    Developed Superstars
    Kobe Bryant: 13th, 117-47
    Tracy McGrady: 9th, 39-93
    Steve Nash: 15th, 96-68
    Dirk Nowitzki: 9th, 59-73
    Scottie Pippen: 9th, 97-67

    Instant Superstars
    Kevin Durant: 2nd, 43-121
    Dwight Howard: 1st, 72-92
    LeBron James: 1st, 77-87
    Chris Paul: 4th, 77-87

    If you look at Paul George's draft position (10th), and the Pacers team he was drafted onto (79-69), it may be unprecedented in modern times that he would become a superstar right out of the gate. Playoff-caliber teams simply do not give late-lottery (and later) rookies the type of roles required to produce like superstars.

    If anyone disagrees, then here's a challenge: Find a player drafted in the past 20 years who became a superstar in his first two seasons while (a) being drafted 9th or later, and (b) playing on an above-.500 team those first two seasons.
    Good Post. If you notice in my post, I said it RARELY happens, not that it never happens. Out of the developed superstar category, 2 were drafted out of high school. It takes some time to be physically ready for the NBA straight out of H.S. Dirk was a Euro player, and was essentially a H.S. player at that point only because foreign players weren't as prevalent within the NBA at that time. (Though you had your Drazen's, Kukoc's, Divac's, etc--it wasn't like the influx we eventually saw following Dirk)

    And no he hasn't had the opportunities to blossom into a superstar. But will he ever? We have made it known that we're going to construct a TEAM where everybody is going to be a player within the offensive system. You could make an argument that every player within our starting lineup deserves 10+ FGA a game. If he hasn't had the opportunity to have superstar type usage, why would he now or in the future?

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    Default Re: Will Paul George become a superstar?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    No. That is the biggest stumbling block he faces. Granger has the same problem and has never, in my opinion, worked hard enough to improve in that area.....
    I say his biggest block is the aggressiveness. He's a 6'9 SG. He has to post-up and drive the ball more than he does now. If he can become more agressive, he'll be a 10x better of a player than he currently is. I agree that his ball handling is a concern, but it's not a huge problem
    Smothered Chicken!

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