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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default We really did upgrade the bench

    I've got to say, I'm impressed with our offseason acquisitions.

    Mahinmi is way better than I expected, and he seems to be getting along well with his teammates. I really (REALLY) like that he's capable of playing the 4 next to Roy. Very Antonio-Davis-esque. Great signing.

    Tyler had a solid game, and he's diversified his moves this offseason. That's good news for a couple reasons. Not only does it make him harder to guard right now, but it also means he's actually able to add things to his game (which we hadn't seen so far).

    Green? Amazing signing. Love that he's locked up for three years.

    Stephenson's game has significantly improved. His shot looks better, he's not nearly so impetuous, and he's clearly growing up. The big downside for him right now is that he looks significantly better running the point than he does the backup 2.

    Augustin didn't look great out there, but he was a backup playing with the starters. I think he'll be more than adequate for our backup PG minutes.



    Every backup position looks better than it did last year. If our starters can just be consistent (with maybe a little development by Paul George) and everybody stays healthy, this is gonna be a really fun year.
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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    I thought more highly of Darren Collison and Dahntay Jones than many, but I gotta agree with you here Anthem. Mahinmi and Green are great additions and I'm interested to see what Hansbrough and Stephenson can contribute to the goon squad. I'm not sold on D.J. Augustin yet (his defense has been poor and his play-making has yet to live up to the training camp hype), but he has looked solid from time to time on the offensive end.

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I thought more highly of Darren Collison and Dahntay Jones than many
    Me too. Collison/Augustin was the one place that we didn't necessarily upgrade the talent, but I think we did upgrade the fit. Our PG is going to be out there with all scorers, what we need in that role is a pure distributor.

    I was sad to see Inferno go as well, but he's no Gerald Green. It was nice to have a pesky defender to bring off the deep bench, but I think Sam Young could fill that role for us.
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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Our PG is going to be out there with all scorers
    Wow, think about this for a minute. We've got a legitimate offensive presence at every single position of our top 10 rotation players. Every single starter could score 20 in a given game without us being too surprised, and every single backup could score 10 without anyone batting an eye. I don't remember the last time I saw a team with that much distributed talent.
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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Wow, think about this for a minute. We've got a legitimate offensive presence at every single position of our top 10 rotation players. Every single starter could score 20 in a given game without us being too surprised, and every single backup could score 10 without anyone batting an eye. I don't remember the last time I saw a team with that much distributed talent.
    The 2004 Pacers team was the best Pacers teams in a very long time. They are extremely better than the 2000 Pacers that went to the finals, and the current team would be embarassed by that squad. If it wasn't for the brawl that team would of gotten us three championships, and we would of been able to persuade Reggie to play longer.

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by Future_NBA_Player View Post
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    The 2004 Pacers team was the best Pacers teams in a very long time. They are extremely better than the 2000 Pacers that went to the finals, and the current team would be embarassed by that squad. If it wasn't for the brawl that team would of gotten us three championships, and we would of been able to persuade Reggie to play longer.
    No. At the time I agreed with you, but since then my feelings have changed. If it wasn't for the brawl, there would have been another outbreak of craziness later in the year. There's no way Ron would have made it through the season.

    I liked Jermaine a lot (I sometimes feel like the only guy one the board who can say that) but right now I'd take Roy Hibbert over 2004 Jermaine. JO's body had already started to break down from carrying too much weight and from playing 3 or 4 summers in a row.
    Last edited by Anthem; 10-20-2012 at 11:07 PM.
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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by Future_NBA_Player View Post
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    The 2004 Pacers team was the best Pacers teams in a very long time. They are extremely better than the 2000 Pacers that went to the finals, and the current team would be embarassed by that squad. If it wasn't for the brawl that team would of gotten us three championships, and we would of been able to persuade Reggie to play longer.
    They were not better than the 2000 Pacers. The 2000 Pacers unfortunately had to go up against (arguably) the most dominant center ever when he was in the best season of his entire 19 year career. Shaq was an absolute freak back in 2000 and there was simply no way of stopping him. That 00 Pacer team would have won the title in a lot of years. Also, it was basically the same team that took Jordan's Bulls to 7 games in 1998. The core of the team (Reggie, Dale, Smits, Jackson) went to the Conference Finals five times. The JO/Artest Pacers went to the conference finals once, but imploded in every other season aside from that. They don't deserved to be mentioned with the 2000 Pacers.

    Good stuff about the bench, Anthem. I didn't get a chance to watch the game last night, but I like what I'm hearing.

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Wow, think about this for a minute. We've got a legitimate offensive presence at every single position of our top 10 rotation players. Every single starter could score 20 in a given game without us being too surprised, and every single backup could score 10 without anyone batting an eye. I don't remember the last time I saw a team with that much distributed talent.
    I'm thinking every backup could 20 in a given game as well. In fact, they probably already have.
    .

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    .


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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I'm thinking every backup could 20 in a given game as well. In fact, they probably already have.
    Well, there's "could go for 20" and there's "could go for 20." In the NBA, any scrub can get hot and go on a tear, but you'd be surprised to see them do it.

    If you picked up the box score in the morning and saw that Roy went for 20, would you be surprised? How about if West did? Granger? George? Hill? That would all seem pretty normal to me.

    Now if Mahinmi, Tyler, Stephenson, or Augustin went for 20, that would be pretty notable. But they could hit 10 consistently without me blinking an eye.
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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Me too. Collison/Augustin was the one place that we didn't necessarily upgrade the talent, but I think we did upgrade the fit. Our PG is going to be out there with all scorers, what we need in that role is a pure distributor.

    I was sad to see Inferno go as well, but he's no Gerald Green. It was nice to have a pesky defender to bring off the deep bench, but I think Sam Young could fill that role for us.
    I think, though, Collison was a better fit for the second unit last season. That unit didn't have any scorers besides him in the playoffs. (And Barbosa was on and off in the regular season too. ) He had a cold Barbosa, a colder Tyler, Lou and Dahntay. Not a lot of scoring..

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    I think, though, Collison was a better fit for the second unit last season. That unit didn't have any scorers besides him in the playoffs. (And Barbosa was on and off in the regular season too. ) He had a cold Barbosa, a colder Tyler, Lou and Dahntay. Not a lot of scoring..
    Absolutely. Putting Augustin on last year's squad wouldn't have been an improvement. But he's a better fit this year.
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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Ian is a MANBEAST.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I've got to say, I'm impressed with our offseason acquisitions.

    Mahinmi is way better than I expected, and he seems to be getting along well with his teammates. I really (REALLY) like that he's capable of playing the 4 next to Roy. Very Antonio-Davis-esque. Great signing.

    Tyler had a solid game, and he's diversified his moves this offseason. That's good news for a couple reasons. Not only does it make him harder to guard right now, but it also means he's actually able to add things to his game (which we hadn't seen so far).

    Green? Amazing signing. Love that he's locked up for three years.

    Stephenson's game has significantly improved. His shot looks better, he's not nearly so impetuous, and he's clearly growing up. The big downside for him right now is that he looks significantly better running the point than he does the backup 2.

    Augustin didn't look great out there, but he was a backup playing with the starters. I think he'll be more than adequate for our backup PG minutes.



    Every backup position looks better than it did last year. If our starters can just be consistent (with maybe a little development by Paul George) and everybody stays healthy, this is gonna be a really fun year.
    If are starters are consistent? How soon people forget or don't realize our starters were the best 5 man combo stats wise last year. Like I said earlier our only issue was backup bigs. If we have a Ian level C defender in the Miami series we beat them. Also trading Rush hurt as we didn't have a good replacement at all and that's why the bench was historically bad in that series. That is really the only hole now a shooter who also is a lockdown defender and can guard 1s. That and Luis Scola

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    If are starters are consistent? How soon people forget or don't realize
    Of course I realized it. That's my point. Read "If the starters can be consistent..." as "If the starters can do this year what they did last year..."
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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    If are starters are consistent? How soon people forget or don't realize our starters were the best 5 man combo stats wise last year. Like I said earlier our only issue was backup bigs. If we have a Ian level C defender in the Miami series we beat them. Also trading Rush hurt as we didn't have a good replacement at all and that's why the bench was historically bad in that series. That is really the only hole now a shooter who also is a lockdown defender and can guard 1s. That and Luis Scola
    Stats can be made to show about anything. This starting group will never be able to contend for a championship against teams with superstars. The bench will be better this year but the starters won't be unless PG becomes a superstar (and he won't).

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Stats can be made to show about anything. This starting group will never be able to contend for a championship against teams with superstars. The bench will be better this year but the starters won't be unless PG becomes a superstar (and he won't).
    against the heat, the pacers ran into trouble when vogel went with the bench. when he went to the total bench lineup, THAT is when we saw 9-12 point leads quickly evaporate to a tied game and even falling behind. it happened time and again. unfortunately frank didn't seem to figure this out and kept with it even after that method proved to be ineffective.
    i still think miami wins that series even if he doesn't go from all starters to all bench but it would have been closer. this year, our bench looks substantially better with a real scorer in green and a real center in mahinmi. those are both 2 things we really didn't have last season.

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    I've been touting Mahinmi next to Roy since the party. I thought it was going to be our secret weapon in the playoffs, but it looks like maybe we will be nuking teams with it more often. That is a lot of beef up front and Mahinmi is so light on his feet he does not move like a 5.

    EDIT: Obviously West will still start, but let's go to the Heat series specifically the end of game 6 where Udonis Haslem exposed West's D in a big way, now imagine we could have put Mahinmi on him for some of those possessions? Would have gone a little differently I think. West and Mahinmi swaps on late game timeouts for O for D just seem so obvious and will be a big part of our strategy I think,

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    People round these parts will recall that I was a big Jeff Foster fan. One of the reasons was that he was offensive rebounding personified. When he retired, I wondered how we would keep getting those offensive boards. Get the ORBs and you set yourself up for more second-chance points.

    Well, if you look at most of the preseason games, the bench has really done quite well in this area. One game it's Tyler, the next Ian, the next Pendergraph or PG. I won't say that we have replaced all of Jeff's intangibles, but I think the offensive rebounding is in good hands, especially if Roy steps up his game and stays on the court as much or more as he did last season. Also love Ian playing with Roy.

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    One thing I would warn people away from is focusing too much on scoring. Anyone can have those nights, even Lou had one of those nights. But the big 4 (Ian, DJ, GG and Young) were having positive impacts even without scoring, that's what really impressed me. They've all shown they can get you points, but they've all also shown poise under heat and a general ability to make clutch plays on either end.

    The top 9 guys on this roster can win 55 games this year, I really expect that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I've been touting Mahinmi next to Roy since the party. I thought it was going to be our secret weapon in the playoffs, but it looks like maybe we will be nuking teams with it more often. That is a lot of beef up front and Mahinmi is so light on his feet he does not move like a 5.

    EDIT: Obviously West will still start, but let's go to the Heat series specifically the end of game 6 where Udonis Haslem exposed West's D in a big way, now imagine we could have put Mahinmi on him for some of those possessions? Would have gone a little differently I think. West and Mahinmi swaps on late game timeouts for O for D just seem so obvious and will be a big part of our strategy I think,
    It's funny how what we saw last night was exactly what we mentioned at the PD party. I likened the use of Ian instead of West late as your MLB closer coming in to get that final defensive shutdown and preserve the lead.

    But seeing Ian's offensive footwork and touch around the rim? So nice. His fouls per minute which hindered him at Dallas are still going to be a problem, but when he's able to be out there he's a huge win. He does give you a sense of Antonio when he comes in, that agile but strong big that gives you a bit of everything you need.

    Ian also frees up Roy to be an even more aggressive shot blocker. And he can replace Roy when needed and run just as well or better next to West. Great 3 man rotation through 2 spots.



    Young's defense last night was outstanding. There were a few trips where he was just relentless in bodying his man when he tried to dribble drive to the lane, turning him away and forcing the kickout/reset pass. When you had Green out there too and that kickout went to his man it just compounded the problems for Memphis. Young isn't the scorer Green is, but he's going to be great as 9th off the bench and defensive specialist. I liked DJones, but I prefer Sam just in general and I'm glad he's getting this chance with the team.


    Green - he's a much more all-around bench player than Barbosa or DJones, his hops give him a unique quality at the rim on either end, and yet he's showing a great scoring touch off the dribble and a sense of CONTROL AND CONFIDENCE that you need from the bench. SIXTH MAN CANDIDATE all the way. Very sincere. Seems obvious really. ESPN highlights keep him in people's heads and his solid box lines give him the stats to be in the running. Add in an elite team with a lot of wins, and bingo. Should be a great year for him.



    DJ - look, again he's just going to get crushed almost immediately by the other PGs first step. If you swing help defense in behind that then you can cover this up. After that he's giving you great positives in every other way. His ball control skills are the best we've seen since Tinsley. He's not just Collison quick and Hill poised, he's also showing a vast array of speed change and dribble change skills that keep defenders off balance much in the way a 95 mph fastball pitcher can do when he mixes in an 80 12 to 6 curve.

    He doesn't have any specific move that kills people, he just keeps on mixing in things until he's got the space he's looking for. And he has a great awareness of what space it is that he needs to find, and what to do with it when he gets it. He's showing a variety of passes to make the most of tight situations and maintains a poise right to the end of the shot clock. He's not putting up monster lines, but he's a big plus when he's out there. Only his defense prevents him from being a starter.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 10-21-2012 at 12:46 PM.

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Guys it's pre-season, man how fast the Tyler haters forgot that Tyler averaged 20ppg in pre-season last year? I like what I see but let's calm down.

  35. #21

    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    What's Ian listed at? 6'11/250 or so? That dude is nimble, especially laterally, it's really impressive. We've needed a big as mobile as him since...forever really. He also seems really vocal on the floor, I love that. It's a really important trait that gets overlooked far too often.

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Hats off to Walsh...he put together a solid bench without spendioo much $$
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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Have not seen any of the games, but from the stat lines from the past games I have seen that Green and Ian have been very valuable additions. With the Green addition the lower amount of minutes from DG won't hurt us as much.
    Why so SERIOUS

  40. #24

    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    I like the new additions except Augustine. His defense is so bad, it is really going to hurt the 2nd unit. I think this is going to be a recurring issue this season.

    I am really impressed by Green and Mahinmi. Mahinmi made an elite move on the baseline vs Gasol last night that was a real eye opener on how skilled he is/can be.

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    Default Re: We really did upgrade the bench

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I've got to say, I'm impressed with our offseason acquisitions.

    Mahinmi is way better than I expected, and he seems to be getting along well with his teammates. I really (REALLY) like that he's capable of playing the 4 next to Roy. Very Antonio-Davis-esque. Great signing.

    Tyler had a solid game, and he's diversified his moves this offseason. That's good news for a couple reasons. Not only does it make him harder to guard right now, but it also means he's actually able to add things to his game (which we hadn't seen so far).

    Green? Amazing signing. Love that he's locked up for three years.

    Stephenson's game has significantly improved. His shot looks better, he's not nearly so impetuous, and he's clearly growing up. The big downside for him right now is that he looks significantly better running the point than he does the backup 2.

    Augustin didn't look great out there, but he was a backup playing with the starters. I think he'll be more than adequate for our backup PG minutes.



    Every backup position looks better than it did last year. If our starters can just be consistent (with maybe a little development by Paul George) and everybody stays healthy, this is gonna be a really fun year.
    Yes, the bench is improved but not by a big margin. The Pacers did nothing with the starters and for that reason, I think they will slip just a little bit this season unless PG breaks out and plays out of his mind. The Pacers are built for the regular season and not the playoffs again and it will be that way until and if they can add a stud to the staring lineup. When the superstars, start playing extended minutes in the playoffs, the Pacers will quickly exit stage left....... 48-34 fourth or fifth in the East....

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