Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 42

Thread: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

  1. #1

    Default Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/case-hanging-there


    Mark Montieth headshot
    The Case For Hanging In There

    by Mark Montieth | askmontieth@gmail.com

    June 2, 2014




    Frank Vogel and Larry Bird met with the media Monday, and their answers to all the questions were pretty boring. To summarize, they said they want to stay the course, try to keep the core together, tweak the roster and hope maturity brings further improvement.

    That might not be what some knee-jerking fans and media members wanted to hear, but they happen to be the correct early-June answers. Declarations such as “We're trading Hibbert!” or “We're letting Lance walk!” or “We've got to get a new point guard!” would have generated better headlines and social media reaction, but that's not what works in the real world of the NBA.

    “We're gonna hang in there,” doesn't exactly make for a scintillating marketing slogan, but it's what works best most of the time when you have a team capable of contending for a title. Veteran Pacers fans who look back fondly on the playoff runs under Larry Brown and Larry Bird know this, although it's easy to forget. Fans of other teams know it, too, because the kind of improvement needed to get to the NBA Finals doesn't usually occur in a straight line.

    The Pacers had shown steady and obvious improvement each season under Frank Vogel until this past season's All-Star break. Losing to Miami in the conference finals for the second straight season, in six games instead of seven, was an interruption to that trend, but doesn't call for a major shakeup. As boring as it sounds, “hanging in there” has history on its side.

    Think back to 1995. The Pacers had made a stunning run to the Eastern Conference finals the previous season, taking a 3-2 lead on New York before losing the final two games. This time expectations were primed for a trip to the Finals. They took Shaquille O'Neal and Orlando to a 3-3 tie in the conference finals, only to get blasted in Game 7, 105-81.

    It got worse from there. Reggie Miller suffered an eye injury late the following season and the Pacers lost a first-round series with Atlanta. The next season, due largely to injuries to Rik Smits and Derrick McKey, they didn't even make the playoffs.

    The rumblings for change were mounting. Miller, Smits, McKey and Mark Jackson each were past 30, after all. How could they be expected to take another step in their declining years?

    Team president Donnie Walsh stood pat.

    The Pacers returned to the conference finals the following season (1997-98) in Bird's first season as coach and took Chicago to seven games, reigniting hope. They were the consensus favorite to win the championship in the lockout season of 1999, but lost to New York in the conference finals again, in six games.

    This time the rumblings were nearly deafening. The core of the team hadn't gotten any younger. The talk radio shows and newspaper columns were filled with calls for a sledgehammer to the roster that would break up a team that couldn't quite get to the top.

    Donnie Walsh stood pat again.

    The following season, the Pacers reached the NBA Finals for the only time in franchise history. True, they didn't win a championship. But they wouldn't have come nearly as close with an overhauled roster that required years to re-mold into a contender, either.

    In San Antonio, there no doubt were calls for to break up the Spurs after they lost to eighth-seeded Memphis in the first round of the playoffs three years ago. But they kept the core together, and will begin play for their fifth title on Thursday.

    In Oklahoma City, the Thunder face a similar challenge as the Pacers. They reached the Finals in 2012 but lost to the Spurs in the conference finals last season and this one. Do they overhaul or tweak? History would advise them to tweak and hope the Spurs finally grow old.

    It takes courage for a team president or general manager to stand pat in the face of disappointment. They're paid a lot of money to build rosters, and action always seems a better option than inaction. But the landscape is littered with fired executives who over-reacted and over-reached.

    This particular Pacers team isn't yet old. When next season opens, Stephenson and George will be 24, Hibbert 27, Hill 28 and West 34. If the starting lineup is brought back intact, they should be an improved team off experience alone. They've just learned some hard lessons – or should have. George struggled with the distractions that go with becoming a nationally-known sports figure who gets magazine covers and commercial endorsements. Stephenson struggled with becoming an emerging star who nearly made the All-Star team. Hibbert struggled with the reduced offensive role that resulted from the improvement of George and Stephenson and his own sensitive nature. Hill struggled with finding a place to fit into the offense, and his mental block about playing point guard. West no doubt struggled with having to deal with everyone else's struggles.

    If they come back older and wiser next season, many of the “little” problems that led to the late-season stumbles go away. They are challenged by the fact they don't have a classic role player, a Dale Davis type who doesn't care about scoring, so they have to be willing to step back on any given night, depending on the match-ups or flow of the game.

    Vogel is much like his players. He's still a young coach, still in the improvement phase of his career, as opposed to the jaded, burn-out phase. The psychological issues his team faced were mostly beyond his control. To know whether he dealt with them the best way possible would have required bugging his meetings with individual players. Ultimately, though, the Pacers were eliminated by a better team with two certain future Hall of Famers in LeBron James and Dwyane Wade, and probably three, with Chris Bosh.

    Every team's mission in every off-season is the same: find a way to get better. For good teams such as the Pacers, that's difficult. There's no room under the salary cap to sign significant free agents, and high-priced players are difficult to trade for even better players. It's risky to disrupt chemistry, and the Pacers had outstanding chemistry until around the All-Star break. It's safer to try to recapture it – and they seemed to have gone a long way toward doing that by the playoffs – than to make major changes and hope it works out.

    It could happen, though.

    Bird hesitated when asked about Hill, who appears to be the most vulnerable starter. He still doesn't view himself as a point guard and he's the lowest-paid starter other than Stephenson. His salary, if traded, could be applied to re-signing Stephenson if necessary.

    Hibbert regressed in a major way from the previous season after the All-Star break, but would be difficult to trade in a deal that brings an equal or better center. He bears the greatest burden for the shortcomings of the past season, and therefore the greatest responsibility for improvement next season. No team can get away with its starting center, an All-Star at that, disappearing as he did on occasion, although his teammates share the blame for some of his offensive MIA's. There's no coincidence in the fact the Pacers were 1-3 in the playoffs when he went scoreless, and 7-2 when he scored in double figures.

    It's impossible to guess the marketplace for Stephenson, given the conflict between his potential and late-season controversies. As was proven with Hibbert two summers ago, it only takes one team to make an extreme offer that poses a front office dilemma. At some point, the cost of re-signing him would no longer make sense. Time will tell.

    Stephenson, though, has improved and matured significantly since he was plucked out of the second round of the draft, and there's no reason to believe he won't continue to progress. The comparisons to Stephen Jackson and the forward formerly known as Ron Artest are foolish. They're all different people, for one thing. Stephenson's off-court life is far more stable, for another thing. He still lives with his parents, for crying out loud. And, Jackson and Artest have started on championship teams for yet another thing.

    Sure, the Pacers could make major trades involving starters this summer. One never knows what opportunities will arise once conversations between executives begin flowing. History, though, says such moves are unlikely – and probably unnecessary, too.


    2014-15 Season Tickets »
    Get the best pricing and best benefits with Season Tickets

    Note: The contents of this page have not been reviewed or endorsed by the Indiana Pacers. All opinions expressed by Mark Montieth are solely his own and do not reflect the opinions of the Indiana Pacers, their partners, or sponsors.
    What you own is your own kingdom
    What you do is your own glory
    What you love is your own power
    What you live is your own story

  2. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to WInslow22 For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Bring Back Bender bballpacen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,037

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    I know I am in the minority here... But let's keep on keeping on... re-work the bench and see how Vogel adjusts his ability to utilize different talents instead of expecting them to fit into slots they don't fit into...
    2013-2014 Pacer fan's asperations...

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to bballpacen For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Member joew8302's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Bennettsville, SC
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,404
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Eh, that is all great, but the Pacers had an unprecedented collapse. Literally every analyst said they had never seen anything like this. I tend to think we are in uncharted territory.

    Now does that call for a stick of dynamite to blow everything up? No. Certainly though at least one substantial change needs to be made.

  6. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to joew8302 For This Useful Post:


  7. #4
    Member PR07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,957

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    It's a good read from Montieth. Keep in mind though, that he's still the mouthpiece of the Pacers. He's not exactly going to say "heads should roll".

    I still think sometimes change can be good, and I think this starting 5 could use a shot in the arm or at least a fresh face or two. We've gone the past two seasons without making any changes, and this year the Heat simply looked better. One could reasonably expect George and Lance (if re-signed) to improve, but to me, I'm not sure our 5 starting pieces gel all that well together anymore regardless.

  8. #5
    Member BenR1990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fredonia, NY
    Posts
    1,330

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Eh, that is all great, but the Pacers had an unprecedented collapse. Literally every analyst said they had never seen anything like this. I tend to think we are in uncharted territory.

    Now does that call for a stick of dynamite to blow everything up? No. Certainly though at least one substantial change needs to be made.
    Yet we took Miami to 6 games and made the Eastern Conference finals. The other side of the coin is how much of this "unprecedented" collapse is media hype? We didn't have nearly the media coverage and stupid sports talk shows on TV today even 8 years ago, so naturally it's going to enhance the perceived severity of the situation.

  9. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to BenR1990 For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Age
    25
    Posts
    1,604

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by bballpacen View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I know I am in the minority here... But let's keep on keeping on... re-work the bench and see how Vogel adjusts his ability to utilize different talents instead of expecting them to fit into slots they don't fit into...
    I'm with you. I do expect to replace one starter, whether that is Lance, Hill, West or Hibbert. Wouldn't be upset if the starting 5 all returned though.

  11. #7
    Eating some cranbaisins The Sleeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    941

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    He left out that Jordan retired in 1999, leaving the door open for the Pacers the next year. We aren't getting by Lebron by standing pat with the same starting line-up.

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to The Sleeze For This Useful Post:


  13. #8
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,532

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm with you. I do expect to replace one starter, whether that is Lance, Hill, West or Hibbert. Wouldn't be upset if the starting 5 all returned though.
    Although I am leaning towards just "tweaking the bench"....I honestly would be fine if ( one of ) Lance, GH or Hibbert was traded for a comparable Player. A total re-haul of the entire roster maybe going to far.......tweaking of the bench is the least damaging but positive changes that can be made....but moving one of Lance, GH or Hibbert could be enough to make some minor improvement to the overall team.

    I just hope that Bird is seeing what trade value that Lance, GH or Hibbert has on the Trading Block. If we could get a Quality Starting PG in a S&T of Lance or outright trade of GH....sure, I'd consider it. If the Pacers could get a Starting quality Center that can defend, rebound, block shots and not fall over as much in a trade for Hibbert....I'd strongly consider it.

    But if none of those can be had....I will be fine with just tweaking the Backup Players.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  14. #9

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Eh, that is all great, but the Pacers had an unprecedented collapse. Literally every analyst said they had never seen anything like this. I tend to think we are in uncharted territory.

    Now does that call for a stick of dynamite to blow everything up? No. Certainly though at least one substantial change needs to be made.
    Yup. Wish I could thank this more.

  15. #10

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yet we took Miami to 6 games and made the Eastern Conference finals. The other side of the coin is how much of this "unprecedented" collapse is media hype? We didn't have nearly the media coverage and stupid sports talk shows on TV today even 8 years ago, so naturally it's going to enhance the perceived severity of the situation.

    The Pacers came a frog hair of having the biggest collapse in history of sports, and it has nothing to do with the media. All the players have to do is look in the mirror, and they'll find the answer.

    The media reports what's going on, and the players allowed the media to have something negative to report. Same as they gave the media something positive to report with their great 1st half start.

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Justin Tyme For This Useful Post:


  17. #11
    Member joew8302's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Bennettsville, SC
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,404
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yet we took Miami to 6 games and made the Eastern Conference finals. The other side of the coin is how much of this "unprecedented" collapse is media hype? We didn't have nearly the media coverage and stupid sports talk shows on TV today even 8 years ago, so naturally it's going to enhance the perceived severity of the situation.
    I don't think this is media hype at all. How many teams that have started as well as we did finished this poorly despite no significant injuries? I literally can not think of one.

    Yeah we beat Washington and Atlanta in the playoffs. I am not going to let this mask the fact that we went into the tank big time and pretty well got drilled by a team much better than us.

    We have some nice pieces to build around, but some retooling does need to be made. Standing pat with this lineup in tact is a path toward a 45 win season and 2nd round playoff exit IMO.

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to joew8302 For This Useful Post:


  19. #12
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    29
    Posts
    17,063

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We have some nice pieces to build around, but some retooling does need to be made. Standing pat with this lineup in tact is a path toward a 45 win season and 2nd round playoff exit IMO.
    Who jumps us in the East? Why are we automatically getting worse? Has PG peaked? Assuming Lance comes back, has he peaked? Is it possible that this team learned from that 2nd half collapse and the near embarrassment at the hands of the Hawks in the first round?

  20. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to cdash For This Useful Post:


  21. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brown County, Indiana
    Posts
    3,723

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Of all those teams that "stood pat" how many won a championship? Likely none. Even championship teams made changes to their starting units as well as the bench. Even Magic's Lakers, Larry's Celtics and Isiah's Pistons made changes. With the Spurs, Manu went to the bench. None of them stood pat.

  22. #14
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    29
    Posts
    17,063

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Of all those teams that "stood pat" how many won a championship? Likely none. Even championship teams made changes to their starting units as well as the bench. Even Magic's Lakers, Larry's Celtics and Isiah's Pistons made changes. With the Spurs, Manu went to the bench. None of them stood pat.
    I don't think you will see anyone here beating the drum to bring back the entire team. If upgrades can be made, make them. The problem I see isn't with the starting five (although there are certainly some issues there). It's where it has been this entire time during this run: the ******* bench.

  23. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brown County, Indiana
    Posts
    3,723

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't think you will see anyone here beating the drum to bring back the entire team. If upgrades can be made, make them. The problem I see isn't with the starting five (although there are certainly some issues there). It's where it has been this entire time during this run: the ******* bench.
    Well, we'll just disagree about whether the starting unit needs upgraded, but I think if it isn't we will be looking at the same results (or worse) each year.

  24. #16
    Member BenR1990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fredonia, NY
    Posts
    1,330

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The Pacers came a frog hair of having the biggest collapse in history of sports, and it has nothing to do with the media. All the players have to do is look in the mirror, and they'll find the answer.

    The media reports what's going on, and the players allowed the media to have something negative to report. Same as they gave the media something positive to report with their great 1st half start.
    But they didn't. My point wasn't that me media created our problems, but that their constant coverage makes it seem like a bigger issue than it really was.

  25. #17

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    The last few days it's been cussed n discussed the Pacers are too slow up front with their bigs. Each time it is discussed Hibbert is the choice to be traded, I have no problem with Hibbert being replaced, but seldom is DWest ever part of being replaced.

    DWest brought leadership to this team, and kudos to him for that, but let's face it he's getting older and slowing down now after 3 years. It's just a matter of time b4 the Pacers have to find his replacement, so why not now with a long athletic PF that can guard both the paint and the arch? Get quicker as to not let other teams take advantage of our slow plodding bigs. DWest is an expiring contract which could be enticing to another team who has a need for DWest next year to help them get to the playoffs or further into the playoffs. I'm not going to put forth any players to try and get. I'm just putting forth the idea. I'm sure some will not like it, but I feel it is a worthwhile thought to be cussed n discussed.

    By trading DWest, it allows Hibbert another year to get his house in order again. Bringing in the right young quick long athletic player could really help now and not having to wait another year. Maybe even save the Pacers some salary to use elsewhere.

  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Justin Tyme For This Useful Post:


  27. #18
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    29
    Posts
    17,063

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Well, we'll just disagree about whether the starting unit needs upgraded, but I think if it isn't we will be looking at the same results (or worse) each year.
    Fair enough.

  28. #19
    Member BenR1990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fredonia, NY
    Posts
    1,330

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The last few days it's been cussed n discussed the Pacers are too slow up front with their bigs. Each time it is discussed Hibbert is the choice to be traded, I have no problem with Hibbert being replaced, but seldom is DWest ever part of being replaced.

    DWest brought leadership to this team, and kudos to him for that, but let's face it he's getting older and slowing down now after 3 years. It's just a matter of time b4 the Pacers have to find his replacement, so why not now with a long athletic PF that can guard both the paint and the arch? Get quicker as to not let other teams take advantage of our slow plodding bigs. DWest is an expiring contract which could be enticing to another team who has a need for DWest next year to help them get to the playoffs or further into the playoffs. I'm not going to put forth any players to try and get. I'm just putting forth the idea. I'm sure some will not like it, but I feel it is a worthwhile thought to be cussed n discussed.

    By trading DWest, it allows Hibbert another year to get his house in order again. Bringing in the right young quick long athletic player could really help now and not having to wait another year. Maybe even save the Pacers some salary to use elsewhere.
    Or we could have DWest help our team get further in the playoffs next year. Honestly, he never was an athletic player so I'm not really concerned about him slowing down. If he stops hitting that mid-range shot, then there might be an issue.

    I just don't think some people understand how hard it is to make trades in this league. I feel like people around here play NBA 2K and since they can offer whatever trade they want in Association mode, it must be doable in real life. If you have a player that is productive, you keep him until he stops being productive and then look for a viable replacement when the time comes.
    Last edited by BenR1990; 06-05-2014 at 07:38 PM.

  29. #20

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    But they didn't. My point wasn't that me media created our problems, but that their constant coverage makes it seem like a bigger issue than it really was.

    The media is a 2 way sword, it can lavish praise or it can make things look terrible. Was the Pacers collapse really made out to be bigger than it was by the media? We probably have different views regarding that point.

  30. #21
    Member BenR1990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fredonia, NY
    Posts
    1,330

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The media is a 2 way sword, it can lavish praise or it can make things look terrible. Was the Pacers collapse really made out to be bigger than it was by the media? We probably have different views regarding that point.
    Likely. For what it's worth, I also think the media made too much out of our hot start in the beginning of the year.

  31. #22

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by BenR1990 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Or we could have DWest help our team get further in the playoffs next year. Honestly, he never was an athletic player so I'm not really concerned about him slowing down. If he stops hitting that mid-range shot, then there might be an issue.

    I just don't think some people understand how hard it is to make trades in this league. I feel like people around here play NBA 2K and since they can offer whatever trade they want in Association mode, it must be doable in real life.
    DWest stats fell off a little this year, and I feel it will continue next season as well. Just pointing out there may be another alternative available to fixing the slowness of the starting bigs besides trading Hibbert.

    As far as trades go, Bird is going to have to get real creative for any changes to come about. BUT after next season the the starting PF situation is going to have to be addressed anyway. I'm just suggesting possibly doing it a year earlier would help solve the weakness that has been made apparent by the Suns, Hawks, Heat, etc.

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to Justin Tyme For This Useful Post:


  33. #23
    Member joew8302's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Bennettsville, SC
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,404
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Who jumps us in the East? Why are we automatically getting worse? Has PG peaked? Assuming Lance comes back, has he peaked? Is it possible that this team learned from that 2nd half collapse and the near embarrassment at the hands of the Hawks in the first round?
    Possible, perhaps, Likely? I don't think so.

    This team was a VERY mediocre team for about half the season. Wins against good teams in the second half of the year were few and far between. To me that is much more of an indication of what will occur if this team is kept largely in tact as opposed to the first half. Obviously Lance and Paul can improve. With that said West isn't getting younger and Roy has regressed a tremendous amount. With the 2nd half collapse and a playoff run which included several befuddling losses (including getting out rebounded 61-23) it seems that this core has peaked.

  34. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to joew8302 For This Useful Post:


  35. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    China
    Posts
    48

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

  36. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to holick For This Useful Post:


  37. #25

    Default Re: Decent Read -- P's staying put perhaps...

    When it comes to the team I wouldn't say blow, but 3 can easily go in exchange for Rondo.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •