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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

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  • #16
    Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

    Originally posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
    Kevin Love's Wolves' winning percentage: .263 (82-230).

    The local Chippewa Indians call him Big Stats Little Wins.

    Yeah, he's had some fantastic teammates during that time. Great coaching. And a top-notch front office that didn't suck until this year. What a
    loser.



    Oh wait, the opposite of all of that.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

      Originally posted by spreedom View Post
      Yeah, he's had some fantastic teammates during that time. Great coaching. And a top-notch front office that didn't suck until this year. What a
      loser.



      Oh wait, the opposite of all of that.
      He had the luxury of playing next to All-Star-caliber 20-and-10 center Al Jefferson his first two seasons. It mattered not; he still lost games in droves. It's not that Love hasn't helped make the Wolves a good team. That's understandable. It's that he's not raised them above the level of bad, usually horrifically so.

      At some point, people need to hold him to the same standards that they once held Zach Randolph and Al Jefferson to, and still hold guys like David Lee to.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

        Originally posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
        He had the luxury of playing next to All-Star-caliber 20-and-10 center Al Jefferson his first two seasons. It mattered not; he still lost games in droves. It's not that Love hasn't helped make the Wolves a good team. That's understandable. It's that he's not raised them above the level of bad, usually horrifically so.

        At some point, people need to hold him to the same standards that they once held Zach Randolph and Al Jefferson to, and still hold guys like David Lee to.
        sigh.
        One, Love was improving... There's a reason why he won the most improved player award. He added a lot to his game and changed his body a lot since he came into the league. He's not the first great player to take time. The Pacers had a few of those two.
        Two, Al Jefferson was there for Love's first two years and played on a bum knee.
        Three, all those other three guys did deserve the criticism. ZBO's criticism stopped when he changed as a player. Al Jefferson and Lee are free to do the same, I'm sure the criticism will stop.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

          Originally posted by hackashaq View Post
          sigh.
          One, Love was improving... There's a reason why he won the most improved player award. He added a lot to his game and changed his body a lot since he came into the league. He's not the first great player to take time. The Pacers had a few of those two.
          Yet, even with his improvement, his teams remain lousy. In fact, Minnesota's 24 wins during Love's underwhelming rookie season were seven more than the whopping 17 wins he brought them during his breakout season, 2010-2011. There's no correlation between Love's production and his teams winning. Hmm... sounds like empty stats to me.

          Originally posted by hackashaq View Post
          Two, Al Jefferson was there for Love's first two years and played on a bum knee.
          Yes, I mentioned that Al Jefferson was in Minnesota for Love's first two seasons. In those seasons, even while sometimes playing hurt (he missed 38 of the 164 total games), Jefferson still managed to put up 20 & 10. Not exactly chopped liver.

          Originally posted by hackashaq View Post
          Three, all those other three guys did deserve the criticism.
          Then so, too, does Kevin Love. Thank you for demonstrating my point the hypocrisy surrounding Kevin Love.

          Originally posted by hackashaq View Post
          ZBO's criticism stopped when he changed as a player.
          Sure, he changed as a player. He stopped being a player who put up big numbers on bad teams, and started being a player who put up big numbers on winning teams. Kevin Love's yet to do that, yet doesn't get anywhere near the flack Randolph once did.

          This very forum was full of people who are strongly against singing Zach Randolph, largely on the basis that he "wasn't a winner." I've not seen a single one of those people levy the same charge against Love.


          Originally posted by hackashaq View Post
          Al Jefferson and Lee are free to do the same, I'm sure the criticism will stop.
          Al Jefferson's coming off a season in which he was the leading scorer, rebounder, and shot blocker on a solid playoff team. Anyone who feels he warrants criticism, yet sighs at those who question Kevin Love's true impact (beyond his bloated numbers), is not being a serious thinker. You, good sir, have once again exposed your immense hypocrisy.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

            Originally posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
            ... is not being a serious thinker. You, good sir, have once again exposed your immense hypocrisy.
            'serious thinkers' don't criticize Al Jefferson, Lee and old ZBO for espn-type "winner / not winner, and i don't care what's going on in actual games" logic you applied there, they are criticized because of how they play.

            Al Jefferson does not like to box out. Which is one of the reasons why 'Sota went from 19th to 7th best rebounding team once he was traded. And Utah went from 4th to 23rd once they got him. Good individual rebounding stats look good for casual fans. But give me a fundamentally sound big man any time over a stat whore who will leave the opposing center open under the basket instead of boxing him out.
            Not to mention, his effort on D very limited, and he's a Melo-type ball hog who has a solid ability to pass but often wastes most of the shot clock before he does it - and sometimes never passes at all despite being double teamed.

            Lee is possibly the worst defender among PFs in the league.

            And ZBO was criticized because he didn't hustle, didn't defend and took a ton of bad shots. When he came to Memphis, he improved in all of those areas. His shot selection is much better. He scores a ton of hustle points on offensive boards. And he's very tough defensively, he works more often than not and overall he's an above average defender. Which is why he's loved and respected right now.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

              For the record: I don't have a problem with Kevin Love beyond thinking he's whiny, annoying, and cheap. He's a very good player, and yeah, I'd take him on the Pacers. I do, however, think that his production is a bit bloated, which, when combined with his sub-par defense, lessens his actual impact. My real issue is with the hypocrisy of people when it comes to criticizing Love versus criticizing certain other players.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

                He's actually a solid defender right now. That's another reason why your 4 years / x wins logic is so flawed. Love took major steps year to year, every year. Last year, his defense was the major improvement. He'll likely never be a stopper because of his physical limitations, but he's not a liability either.
                Players have to be criticized based on their strengths and weaknesses in actual games. Nobody can carry multiple Smush Parkers, Ricky Davis's or Wesley Johnsons in their starting lineups and still be decent.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

                  In the first pre-season home game vs the Pacers (which I realize he only played a half of) I made it a point to watch him exclusively for several plays & had my son tell me what occured with the rest of the play because I just kept being baffled as to how the guy gets his rebounds.

                  1. Let me say this, he is very good at recognizing where the ball is going to go & that is huge.
                  2. He does a decent job of boxing out, he's not the best at it but he is very very good.
                  3. He does leave his defensive assignment early to get into rebounding position. Now I'm not a fan of that myself but that may very well be what the Wolves want him to do.

                  I'm not calling him Troy Murphy but I think people tend to forget that on occasion Troy would put up a 20/20 game as well and got rebounding numbers that were out of this world.

                  Kevin Love is nowhere near the saloon door on defense that Troy was (btw is he even in the league anymore) but there are some similarities between the two.

                  But don't just focus on my 3rd point, he certainly does 1 & 2 both very well.


                  Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

                    in typical games, Love gets nearly half his minutes at 5, where he gets to battle Mahinmi types near the hoop, and where defense/boxing out/rebounding go hand in hand. As opposed to playing exclusively with Pekovic like he did in both of the Pacers games and covering mid range shooters.
                    Stretch 4s, small ball, 3s pretending to be 4s, those are his biggest weaknesses as a defender, and I'm not sure it will ever change, although he doesn't get killed either. But anytime strength and hustle is necessary, he'll be near elite. If he was able to block shots too, he'd be a great defensive center.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

                      Jerry Zgoda ‏@JerryZgoda

                      Love broke his hand doing knuckle push-ups with personal trainer Rob McClanaghan. No surgery will be needed

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

                        I think Kevin Love is a very good player. But I don't think he's a great player. But he's never been in the playoffs, so I am anxious to see how he looks when it really counts.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

                          Originally posted by Marlin View Post
                          Jerry Zgoda ‏@JerryZgoda

                          Love broke his hand doing knuckle push-ups with personal trainer Rob McClanaghan. No surgery will be needed
                          wow. i do knuckle push-ups as a part of my fighting training and trust me it would take a lot of effort to break your hand doing those.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

                            Me thinks he was probably dicking around.


                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

                              Originally posted by xtacy View Post
                              wow. i do knuckle push-ups as a part of my fighting training and trust me it would take a lot of effort to break your hand doing those.
                              Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                              Me thinks he was probably dicking around.
                              yeah, me too. probably something he wasn't supposed to be doing. Amazing how these guys can play a physical game like the NBA with no problems and suddenly get hurt doing pushups or walking around the house. Anyone want to bet there's a fist sized hole in a wall somewhere in his house.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: K.Love out 6 wks, broken hand

                                Chant... Tough pills tough pills should've taken those tough pills!
                                Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

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