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Thread: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    As much as I can't stand Melo, the guy can offensively take over a game like no one besides Kobe in this league.

    As great as Lebron is, if I needed 15 points in the 4th quarter, I'm probably going Melo. That Easter blowup was exactly why he'll be hovering around these lists for the next few years, a supreme offensive talent.

    Regarding Rose being "overrated", it'll be very interesting to see if his explosiveness is there in 2012/13. He is ridiculously quick and a great finisher, but without his explosiveness he isn't going to get the calls he always relied on before. It'll be interesting to see.

    EDIT: It'll also be fascinating to see how the Bulls respond without Rose early this season. They got worse and worse without him, and ultimately they are just a "very good" team. With Rose, bordering on elite. Still would've taken Miami/Boston over Chicago last season, but I think a healthy Rose this season makes them the clear #2 in the East. I'd be pissed if I was a Bulls fan.

  2. #27

    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    He does? Ask Coach K and the Olympic team about that......
    Coach K's too upset that he can't coach Dirk, doesn't pick up my call

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    Lifelong Pacer Fan. PGisthefuture's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    I've never understood the hype of Luol Deng. I'd take Danny over him any day.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by PGisthefuture View Post
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    I've never understood the hype of Luol Deng. I'd take Danny over him any day.
    I wouldn't and neither would a lot of NBA teams and coaches...... and, remember, I think Danny certainly deserved to be on this list.....

  6. #30

    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    I think Danny-Deng-Gay (and Iggy if you count him as SF) is pretty much a coin toss. After last season, i'd take them in that order, but a year ago i would've taken Gay-Deng-Danny.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by PGisthefuture View Post
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    I've never understood the hype of Luol Deng. I'd take Danny over him any day.
    Deng is the current all star, Deng was also the best player(because Rose was out for must of the year) on a team with the best record in the east, there is not hype, the guy deserves (at least at this moment) to be top 5.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Deng is the current all star, Deng was also the best player(because Rose was out for must of the year) on a team with the best record in the east, there is not hype, the guy deserves (at least at this moment) to be top 5.
    And that was with a wrist that was about to fall off.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Deng is the current all star, Deng was also the best player(because Rose was out for must of the year) on a team with the best record in the east, there is not hype, the guy deserves (at least at this moment) to be top 5.
    I'm not saying that he isn't a good player, he may also be underrated by some. I don't think he is a top 5 SF, Danny is a much better scorer imo. Deng might be the better all-around player, but I just have never really liked his game... compared to Danny's anyways. I'd go LeBron, Durant, Anthony, Pierce, Gay, Granger, Deng.
    Last edited by PGisthefuture; 10-17-2012 at 03:44 PM.

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  11. #34

    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by PGisthefuture View Post
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    I'm not saying that he isn't a good player, he may also be underrated by some. I don't think he is a top 5 SF, Danny is a much better scorer imo. Deng might be the better all-around player, but I just have never really liked his game.
    Deng's a much better defender, and he played with a bum wrist. Offensively, he should be better next year. When Kobe played with a bum finger, his offense took a little step back too.
    If it's based on last year, I'd take Danny also. But I won't be surprised at all if Deng's an All Star again this year, and this time more deservedly.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Deng is the current all star, Deng was also the best player(because Rose was out for must of the year) on a team with the best record in the east, there is not hype, the guy deserves (at least at this moment) to be top 5.
    If playing almost 2/3rds of the season is missing most of the season. Not trying to say the Bulls didn't do fine without Rose, they were still almost equal pace with Miami without him, but missing your star player for a chunks at a time isn't the same as not having him for a full season. Often times teams do nearly as well or possibly better for short periods of time without their star player, especially in the regular season.
    Last edited by Eleazar; 10-17-2012 at 03:51 PM.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Deng is the current all star, Deng was also the best player(because Rose was out for must of the year) on a team with the best record in the east, there is not hype, the guy deserves (at least at this moment) to be top 5.
    Derrick Rose missed 27 regular season games for the Bulls last season (27 out of 66 doesn't translate to "most of the year", even in a lockout-shortened schedule). To be fair to Deng and Co., the Bulls played exceedingly well without Rose, winning at a .667 pace (18-9).

    Luol Deng missed 12 regular season games for the Bulls last season. The Bulls had the same winning percentage without Rose as they did without Deng, amassing a 8-4 (.667) record in those contests. There were only three games over the course of the season in which both didn't play. Chicago went 2-1 (.667) in those games.

    In the four games Danny Granger missed, the Pacers went 1-3. (Tiny sample size)

    PER: 18.68 (DG) > 14.15 (LD)
    Danny Granger is the second highest Pacer after Hibbert; Deng is rated 6th behind Rose, Boozer, Noah, Gibson, Lucas

    Win-Shares: 6.7 (DG) > 5.8 (LD)
    Danny Granger is the highest-ranked Pacer; Deng is 4th behind Rose, Boozer and Noah

    Plus-Minus: +295 (DG) < +377 (LD)
    Luol Deng is the highest-ranked member of the Bulls, and is the 5th highest in the entire NBA! However, five of his Bulls teammates are in the league's Top 25; Danny Granger is the 16th highest in the NBA, but the only Pacer in the Top 25

    I think the most shocking thing was how poorly they both shot from the field last season. Danny's low FG% (.416 in '11-12) is well-documented around these parts - a mark that has declined in each of the last three seasons. Deng had an uncharacteristically poor year as well, shooting just .412 from the field. Gross!

    Feel free to draw your own conclusions from the data provided. I don't think it's clear-cut who is a) better and b) more important to their team's success. My loyalty lies with Danny Granger.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    However, five of his Bulls teammates are in the league's Top 25; Danny Granger is the 16th highest in the NBA, but the only Pacer in the Top 25
    i don't understand what you mean here? what five Deng's teammates are in what top 25? EDIT: you were talking about plus minus, got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
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    I think the most shocking thing was how poorly they both shot from the field last season. Danny's low FG% (.416 in '11-12) is well-documented around these parts - a mark that has declined in each of the last three seasons. Deng had an uncharacteristically poor year as well, shooting just .412 from the field. Gross!
    that happens when your wrist ligaments are torn up and you are trying to play through it because you expect to compete.
    Last edited by hackashaq; 10-17-2012 at 04:46 PM.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Feel free to draw your own conclusions from the data provided. I don't think it's clear-cut who is a) better and b) more important to their team's success. My loyalty lies with Danny Granger.
    My point wasn't to compare one player to another, my point was to prove that putting Deng in that position is not as crazy as some are making it sound here, I think I can say that the coaches agree with me also

    By the way I have never been a Deng fan either but I got to watch him in many games last year and the guy played great, his defense won the bulls a lot of games last year, now if you make me choose between "engaged Danny Granger" and him I take Danny, but if you make me choose between "lazy Danny Granger" and him I take Deng.

  18. #39

    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    I would move Deng below Granger and Gay other than that this is pretty accurate in my eyes.
    Yea, although I hate having Melo so high up there. But at the end of the day, that's where he should be. He's just a huge drop off from Durant.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    i don't understand what you mean here? what five Deng's teammates are in what top 25? EDIT: you were talking about plus minus, got it.



    that happens when your wrist ligaments are torn up and you are trying to play through it because you expect to compete.
    Deng still has a bad wrist, he never got it fixed... Bulls fans aren't expecting much offensively from him at all.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yeah I guess we are gonna have to see how they do, I don't expect them to have the best record in the east but I expect them to be in the middle.

    I looks to me like they replaced Watson with Hinrich, Watson has always been underrated in my book,(I think he is equal to DC) but at the end of the day Chicago upgraded with Hinrich by having a better floor general and better defender.

    Asik to me was decent and there is not doubt that Brewer and Korver are going to be missed.

    By looking at their roster it looks like their starting unit is going to be Hinrich, Hamilton, Deng, Boozer and Noah.

    I think if they finish higher than a 7th seed Thibodeau needs to be coach of the year. Deng might have been inefficient but he is a better defender than Danny and slashes waaaay better. I think at the best I would rather have Danny, but not by much. Deng elected not to have surgery in order to play in the Olympics with England. You know Boozer and/or Noah will miss some time. Hinrich is not an iron horse who is never injured. If they are as successful as you think they might​, than Thibodeau is the best coach in the NBA. Hands down.

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  23. #42

    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by daschysta View Post
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    Deng still has a bad wrist, he never got it fixed... Bulls fans aren't expecting much offensively from him at all.
    oh? i wasn't aware. that's a bummer. that's not very smart on his part. he looked awesome in the Olympics, I assumed he fixed it.

  24. #43
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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    IMO Rudy Gay has lost all validation to deserve this ranking. His team did better with out him in the playoffs 2 years ago compared to this past year. He got snubbed from Team USA. I don't even think he is the best player on his team (Z-BO).

    Deng is a great player, and I'd put him on par with Granger, he obviously has an extra gear for the defensive end while Granger has an extra gear for the offensive end of the game. But Deng also plays with the most athletic guard in the league, he doesn't have to score 20 a game. Not to mention the offensively geared Boozer.

    So I'd still put Granger in my top 5 with Deng just behind.

    10. Batum
    9. Wallace
    8. Gallinari
    7. Gay
    6. Deng
    5. Granger
    4. Pierce
    3. Anthony
    2. Durant
    1. James
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  25. #44

    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    IMO Rudy Gay has lost all validation to deserve this ranking. His team did better with out him in the playoffs 2 years ago compared to this past year. He got snubbed from Team USA. I don't even think he is the best player on his team (Z-BO).
    Don't you think it had something to do with ZBO being injured this year?

  26. #45
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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    oh? i wasn't aware. that's a bummer. that's not very smart on his part. he looked awesome in the Olympics, I assumed he fixed it.
    Never had surgery, Chicago fans were furious for the most part, because he was awful, awful awful offensively after he injured it.

    Compare him to Danny post-asb "Engaged Danny" or "On his game Danny" vs. Luol + (still) injured wrist.

    Danny

    19.4 ppg
    5.4 rpg
    1.8 apg
    .6 bpg
    .7 spg

    45 percent from the field
    41 percent from 3
    90.8 from the line

    32.8 mpg

    Deng

    14.8 ppg
    6 rpg
    2.5 apg
    .6 bpg
    1 spg

    40.2 percent from the field
    33.6 percent from 3
    77.9 percent from the line

    40.7

    Danny vastly outproduced Luol offensively, at vastly higher efficiency in 8 less minutes per game. Luol still is nursing the same injury, he never had surgery, it's not nearly as difficult putting together a few games for your country, which was a vast underdog and didn't play the best competition in the Olympics, as it is to put together a good 82 game season with that injury. In fact is was BECAUSE he wanted to play in the olympics that he opted out of surgery, his patriotism is admirable, but it won't do him any favors next season, and he'll probably be crummy on offense again.

    Plus it isn't like Danny was a defensive slouch last year, he wasn't Deng good on defense, but he was so much superior to Deng post-injury on offense that it more than makes up for it.

    Comparing the two is the same as ever. Deng is more consistent when healthy, but Danny at his best has always been way better than Deng at his best. If Danny doesn't start off playing the worst ball of his career like he did last season than it isn't really a question between the two. Deng primarily made the game because of who he played for, he isn't the kind of guy to stand out enough on a lesser team and still clearly deserve the spot like Danny was.

    Hopefully Vogel isn't just blowing air when he says that Danny looks sharper now than he did at any point last year. Who knows? Kobe Bryant swears by the same procedure that Danny had done on his knee, and he's certainly looking sharp for a 34 year old dude going into his 17th (!) season. I'm hopeful that we get 2009/post ASB last season Danny, who looked like a passable first option closer this year as opposed to 2010-2011 Danny, who looked like 2nd/3rd option type of player ideally. If Danny is "on" next season he'll be considered easily better than the Iguodala's, Dengs, and Gay's of the world, and rightfully be considered alongside Pierce as right below Melo in the best small forwards not named James or Durant category.

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  28. #46

    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    I got Iggy in the top 5. I think he's underrated around here. He might not put up the stats like some of the other guys, but he makes his teammates better, and you can't always find numbers for that.

  29. #47

    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    I got Iggy in the top 5. I think he's underrated around here. He might not put up the stats like some of the other guys, but he makes his teammates better, and you can't always find numbers for that.
    yeah, he's probably the one who should be #5, although again the gap is small between him and Danny, Gay and Deng.
    But he's going to play SG most of the time in Denver, so they listed him at SG.

  30. #48
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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by TinManJoshua View Post
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    http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/T...photo=31364726

    10. Batum
    9. Wallace
    8. Gallinari
    7. Granger
    6. Gay
    5. Deng
    4. Pierce
    3. Anthony
    2. Durant
    1. James

    There's not way Danny should be in the Top 10 and its not even close
    I'm not sure which bothers me more, Gallinari being ranked in the top 10 of small forwards or the fact that I don't disagree with it.

    As to Danny, it seems about right to me. I'll agree 100% with Vnzla81 here, I'll take an active and engaged Danny over everyone but the top 4 but the lazy laid back Danny would be hard pressed to crack the top 10. Thankfully he very rarely is not interested.


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  31. #49
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    The fact that you have to choose between "engaged Danny" and "disengaged Danny" is one of the primary reasons I, and pretty much everyone who isn't on this message board, would pick Deng or Gay (and Iggy if he's a 3) ahead of Granger.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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  33. #50
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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    The fact that you have to choose between "engaged Danny" and "disengaged Danny" is one of the primary reasons I, and pretty much everyone who isn't on this message board, would pick Deng or Gay (and Iggy if he's a 3) ahead of Granger.
    That is exactly right......

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