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Thread: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

  1. #51
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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    The fact that you have to choose between "engaged Danny" and "disengaged Danny" is one of the primary reasons I, and pretty much everyone who isn't on this message board, would pick Deng or Gay (and Iggy if he's a 3) ahead of Granger.
    As Peck pointed out, when's the last time we've seen "disengaged Danny"? Danny has been more focused and has played harder than ever--most notably ever since Vogel has become our coach. Yes he has a lax game here or there, but who doesnt?

    And if we want to talk about a player who's effort is hot and cold, Rudy Gay is not exactly the standard to playing hard all the time. In fact he is a lot worse at this than Danny (in spite of being more talented than DG)

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Deng might have been inefficient but he is a better defender than Danny and slashes waaaay better. .
    This has been a myth for years. Deng FTA's per game (a pretty good way to gauge who's taking it to the racks) are always well below Danny's. I think Deng is better at coming off the ball and getting into the lane, but I don't think he is a good slasher at all. To say he slashes waaaay better is kind of silly IMO

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    The fact that you have to choose between "engaged Danny" and "disengaged Danny" is one of the primary reasons I, and pretty much everyone who isn't on this message board, would pick Deng or Gay (and Iggy if he's a 3) ahead of Granger.
    I've watched enough Rudy Gay to know that he more than on occasion will take a night off. I've seen Iggy play a few times where it appeared to be either a Philly game or an episode of the walking dead.

    I'm not saying Danny is not wrong for having off nights but let's not pretend like he is the only one who does it. Only the super super star players bring it every night every game & it's always been that way.

    Reggie Miller himself has admitted to taking nights off or not getting up for certain teams. When he say's he brought his "A game" to the playoffs doesn't that imply that he wasn't giving his effort every game.

    Deng is odd, every time I see him he is the exact same way.


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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Charles Barkley said it best last year just before the all star game, the spot Luol Deng got had Danny Granger's name written all over it and Danny basically nuked his chance by starting so slow last year. If Danny comes out and scores 19 or 20 a game this year on 45% shooting from the field, 40% from the arc, and 90% from the FT line it will be tough for anyone to argue against him being higher than Deng and Iggy IMO. That being said, Danny's start last year was ridiculously bad, so I'm not offended at all that people around the NBA would put him behind the rest of those guys.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    This has been a myth for years. Deng FTA's per game (a pretty good way to gauge who's taking it to the racks) are always well below Danny's. I think Deng is better at coming off the ball and getting into the lane, but I don't think he is a good slasher at all. To say he slashes waaaay better is kind of silly IMO
    That is what a slasher is. To me, there is a difference between a dribble penetrator and a slasher.
    And FTAs mean nothing since Danny is our first option and Deng is third...at best.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    That is what a slasher is. To me, there is a difference between a dribble penetrator and a slasher.
    And FTAs mean nothing since Danny is our first option and Deng is third...at best.
    Deng averages about 9 more minutes and their FGA's are comparable (14.0 for Deng and 15.2 for Danny) so their rank within the offense aside, Deng has just about as many opportunities to get to the basket and the FT line as Danny does.

    Yes there is a difference between Slashers and dribble penetrators, but to say Deng is WAYY better in either area a bit of an overstatement

    Better? Probably.

    Wayy better, I disagree. But that's just my opinion.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Wayy better, I disagree. But that's just my opinion.
    It is my opinion that you are wrong.

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Deng averages about 9 more minutes and their FGA's are comparable (14.0 for Deng and 15.2 for Danny) so their rank within the offense aside, Deng has just about as many opportunities to get to the basket and the FT line as Danny does.

    Yes there is a difference between Slashers and dribble penetrators, but to say Deng is WAYY better in either area a bit of an overstatement

    Better? Probably.

    Wayy better, I disagree. But that's just my opinion.
    BTW if Deng gets 9 more minutes then why would he have less FGA? Probably because he has a lesser scoring role than Danny? And since he doesn't have the ball as much as Danny, why would he have more FTA?

    Danny is not known fo his back door cuts or cutting in the lane when his man leaves for a double. Danny and other Pacers rotates on the 3pt line to the adjacent elbow. When teams shift over it is the opposite wing that slashes. When Danny is that opposite wing, he rarely slashes in the lane. Deng crashes through on the opposite wing when Boozer/Rose draws a double or a defensive rotation.






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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    BTW if Deng gets 9 more minutes then why would he have less FGA? Probably because he has a lesser scoring role than Danny? And since he doesn't have the ball as much as Danny, why would he have more FTA?

    Danny is not known fo his back door cuts or cutting in the lane when his man leaves for a double. Danny and other Pacers rotates on the 3pt line to the adjacent elbow. When teams shift over it is the opposite wing that slashes. When Danny is that opposite wing, he rarely slashes in the lane. Deng crashes through on the opposite wing when Boozer/Rose draws a double or a defensive rotation.





    Danny averages one more shot attempt a game in nearly 10 less minutes. That's far from a significant difference when you compare their MPG. Also Danny is a superior 3pt shooter so yes he is more likely to drift for a 3 as opposed to cutting to the basket. The bulls offense is designed for those back cuts. Guys like Noah and Boozer can make that pass so that guys like Deng, Ronnie Brewer excelled at finishing.

    Good Slashers normally get to the line at a high rate bc they get shots in traffic and near the rim. If a guy is considered much better at this skill, I'd expect them to average more than 3 FTA a game.

  12. #59

    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    You got to cut hard to the rim and make shots in the paint to be considered a slasher. Danny's a jumpshooter who gets to the line off dribble penetration which doesn't help anyone but himself because he's not looking to set anyone up.

    Dannys got a very selfish game. That's what seperates him from guys like PIerce, Iggy, and even Deng. I got a feeling if players were asked their top 10 or who'd they rather play with, their lists would be much different than ours here at PD.

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Danny averages one more shot attempt a game in nearly 10 less minutes. That's far from a significant difference when you compare their MPG. Also Danny is a superior 3pt shooter so yes he is more likely to drift for a 3 as opposed to cutting to the basket. The bulls offense is designed for those back cuts. Guys like Noah and Boozer can make that pass so that guys like Deng, Ronnie Brewer excelled at finishing.

    Good Slashers normally get to the line at a high rate bc they get shots in traffic and near the rim. If a guy is considered much better at this skill, I'd expect them to average more than 3 FTA a game.
    Look shots per minute is pretty telling.
    Deng shoots a FGA every 2.8 minutes
    Danny shoots a FGA every 2.1 minutes

    Whether they get to the line or not does not matter. Slashers do not get to the FT as much because they usually have a wide open bucket. Watch the two play. Danny would rather shoot. It is who he is. And if he played on the Bulls he would be much more effective than Deng in their offense when they had Brewer (another slasher). If Deng played here I really think he might score better than he does in Chicago, because Paul compliments him.

    I really don't want to use last year anyway.
    10-11 show a better season for both.

    Deng
    Shot Distance At Rim 244 372 .656 0 0 .656 142 .582
    3 to 9 ft 96 215 .447 0 0 .447 51 .531
    10 to 15 ft 31 98 .316 0 0 .316 18 .581
    16 ft to 3-pt 121 299 .405 0 0 .405 97 .802
    3-pt 137 401 .342 137 401 .342 .512 132 .964


    Granger

    Shot Distance At Rim 178 286 .622 0 0 .622 68 .382
    3 to 9 ft 70 188 .372 0 0 .372 19 .271
    10 to 15 ft 49 127 .386 0 0 .386 13 .265
    16 ft to 3-pt 116 319 .364 0 0 .364 47 .405
    3-pt 165 430 .384 165 430 .384 .576 145 .879


    Players normally get to the line, when they dribble penetrate or iso mid range. That is not Deng's game. He hits the open spot on the floor and when the ball rotates he spots up or slashers. Rarely does he dribble the ball, Pick and Roll, or Triple Threat. Danny gets his FTA on dribble penetrations and post ups. Danny is a much better scorer, but he does not move well without the ball. How is this not news to you?
    Last edited by Major Cold; 10-19-2012 at 08:14 AM. Reason: tired

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    Dayum! Where do you guys find all these stats?

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    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    hoopdata.com
    82games.com
    basketballreference.com

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  19. #63

    Default Re: NBA Top Ten Small Forwards SI.com

    hmmm wasn't familiar with hoopdata. Very cool site. Thnx

    Looking at the splits, it's strange how much better Danny's all around game is when his shots falling compared to when it's not. I didn't go back to years past, but I'd assume there's a pattern. That lack of consistency is what bothers folks I believe. He's either really good or terrible. Doesn't seem to be much middle ground with Danny.
    Last edited by CJ Jones; 10-19-2012 at 02:04 AM.

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