Love's team WAS good last year until Rubio went down. People forget that.
2013 Pacers Digest NBA 2K13 Champion (Xbox 360)
so in 04-05 when the Lakers sucked, Kobe wasn't a top 5 SG? or does that requirement apply to big men only?
"Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
- Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh
I love Griffin and his speed/power combo is deadly, but his total game is not well rounded and a guy like Aldridge is a beast compared to him. The passing and low block play of Gasol, the all-around game of Smith, the post offense and agility of Amare, Duncan's perfectly pure fundamentals game that makes the hard look easy....just a bunch of guys with less PR but easily as much or more impact on games.
As for Kevin Love, he might be one of the greatest rebounders ever when it's all done. Not Troy "steal uncontested boards" great, but "excuse me but I'll be taking this rebound position from you now" great. And he has the outside touch to boot.
I think he plays smart enough defense to not get in trouble, even though he is not a defensive player himself. He doesn't chase or try to do more than he reasonably could which means he often doesn't get out of position. This gives his teammates a chance to help him out.
This was the point I brought up at the PD party.If you're the best player on a bad team shouldn't the other teams D be focused on you, diminishing your impact and stats.
If they're focused on you and you still put up good numbers, maybe you're better than the stats lead us to believe.
If I quote the +/- statistic then people say "oh, but that's all about who you are playing with, they make you look better or worse". But if we talk about rebounds or scoring then suddenly you get this massive benefit from playing with crappy players.
Make up you freaking minds stat-haters, either playing with Shaq makes it easier to have a good 3P% or playing without him does. Either playing with Nash means you'll get more open looks and have a higher FG% or you are better off playing without him.
Sure if you go by POINTS ONLY then being the star on a team and taking 500 shots a night you will get points, but your FG% will suck, your PPS will suck, your FTAs per possession will suck, your rebounds and steals will suck, everything that is non-volume related will look horrible because your crappy teammates are keeping you from getting the best possible looks or situations.
The star player that has to help everyone on defense is going to be more tired on offense. The rebounder fighting inside will be tanked when it comes to scoring. The shooter that constantly has to get his own shot is going to be screwed when it comes to quality looks. He'll never get to take a play off and watch another guy work the post or run off screens or break someone down off the dribble. It's always him doing those things.
And somehow as a way of dismissing players on losing teams this gets turned into "oh, he had it easy because he was ON A BAD TEAM?" That make no sense in any possible way.
Playing against bad teams helps you, not being on one.
Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 10-16-2012 at 11:36 AM.
There is almost something to it though because West is dramatically more skilled in the low block scoring moves area, as well as the fadeaway from the triple threat. Griffin explodes when he can find space, but West can score without space, even stepping through doubles pretty effectively.
Blake is obviously faster and more athletic and this gives him a clear advantage on boards and blocks. But he's not a great defender himself and is lacking in low block scoring moves.
I like Griffin actually but he's got the size of Love with more athletic ability and has yet to use it nearly as well as Love does. If he gets there then he'll shoot to #1 on this list. He could be Kemp in his prime if he puts it together.
Those things are all true....
...and 30 out of 30 NBA GMs would laugh their asses off if you asked the which player they would rather have, including bird or Walsh.
This is like extolling the virtues of rik smits as a free throw shooter and high post threat in pick and roll situations over Shaquille
Yes there are things he does better. Just don't imply the ridiculous notion that he's the better player.
Love vs griffin is and will be a fantastic and ongoing debate. Either of them vs David west is silly.
The funny thing is I am a HUGE fan of David west. I was a huge fan of dale Davis too, back in the day. But I never lost my marbles and decided he was a top-5 power forward at any point.
Last edited by Kstat; 10-16-2012 at 11:58 AM.
2013 Pacers Digest NBA 2K13 Champion (Xbox 360)
Kstat I told you that more people thought that West is better than Griffin
It's funny, if Griffin was 6'6 with super long arms and big butt, and played the way he does, everyone would be talking how he's the next Round Mound of Rebound. Instead, he has a ripped 6'10 body with penguin arms which make him about as limited as the above but opens him up to criticism. How can a guy who looks like that not dominate on D? He has no reliable go-to move! He look like Bron but he no block transition shots!
Sure, he's not a complete player yet. But those aren't fake points or imaginary rebounds or assists or efficiency. Strength, quickness, jumping ability, handle, passing, hustle, and actual brains. I don't know that since Barkley we've seen a PF as good at all of those. Maybe if you count LeBron as PF, he has a comparable combination.
Yes, Griffin desperately needs to work on his shot, and then his D and post moves will need work too. But clearly, he's near the very top right now at his position, with potential to develop into an MVP type one day.
I can't believe anyone thinks West is anywhere near Griffin. That's ridiculous.
Find me on the internets @mattiecolin
Going forward, methinks we're in a fair amount of danger filling the 4 effectively. Looking at this list and this conversation makes that even more clear.