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Thread: Here's my plea

  1. #126
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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Slightly worse??? The difference between making the playoffs and competing for the number one pick again is not a "slight" difference". You aren't even taking into considerations how many years the Colts will "Suck for Luck". I'm betting five minimum and if good decisions are not made, it could be a decade. Miami had almost two decades to put a team around Dan Marino and while they made the playoffs once in a while, he never got back to the Superbowl after that one and only time......

  2. #127
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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Hey, I completely understand why we did it and I like Luck a whole whole lot. I think it's going to work out fine. I just take issue when people say that the team would have sucked anyway if Manning was on it.
    We'd be better but do you think the team would good enough to be a championship contender?

    The team has stunk some this year but also looked good at times. Just inconsistent, which is understanding given the youth and all the new pieces.

    We'd be a borderline playoff team with Manning and probably just missing the playoffs with Luck. I don't think the difference would be big enough to cry over spilled milk, which is what at least 1 poster has been doing ever since the draft.

  3. #128
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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by Swingman View Post
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    We'd be better but do you think the team would good enough to be a championship contender?

    The team has stunk some this year but also looked good at times. Just inconsistent, which is understanding given the youth and all the new pieces.

    We'd be a borderline playoff team with Manning and probably just missing the playoffs with Luck. I don't think the difference would be big enough to cry over spilled milk, which is what at least 1 poster has been doing ever since the draft.
    The big difference is that the Colts would be a contendor with Manning at QB. They may NEVER be a contender with Luck at the QB. 36 years. Remember that number, I suffered through it year after year after year with phenoms like Jeff George and Jim Harbaugh supposedly taking us to the promised land. It never happened.....

  4. #129

    Default Re: Here's my plea

    This Colts team is not a contender with Peyton. That's lunacy. Almost as much as saying the Colts will suck for a decade with Luck. Your entire point is based on nothing but fantasy and absolute worst case scenarios.

  5. #130
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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I agree with going with Luck, but people gotta stop acting like Peyton's a walking toothpick. He's been hit hard multiple times with multiple scary wrenches on his neck. Obviously hopped up every time.

    Multiple NFL players had the surgery he had and doctors said his neck could be stronger now than it had been in years. His neck is not a problem, not anymore than any other NFL player. The potential problem is the nerve regeneration in his throwing arm. When he was working out he talked about how it'd be good as new one throw and the next throw he couldn't even feel the ball in his hand. I have no clue how much that's changed. But if there is a worry it's how his arm holds up in week 14 after he's thrown the ball 600+ (including practice) times.
    I don't think that is an accurate statement in any way, shape, or form.

  6. #131

    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I don't think that is an accurate statement in any way, shape, or form.
    http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ers-optimism/1

    -- Of the 53 NFL players treated surgically for CDH, 72% returned to play and continued to play in an average of 29.3 games over a 2.8-year period after surgery. (Only 46% of those who treated the injury nonsurgically returned to play, and averaged 14.7 games over a 1.5-year period before retiring.)

    -- Dr. Hsu said those players who returned after surgery did have lower performance scores and started fewer games than before their injuries, but said the differences weren't "statistically significant."

    -- Defensive backs had the bleakest outcome. Six of 12 who were treated surgically returned to play and averaged 17 games of a 1.85-year period. Of the 19 who opted for nonsurgical treatment only seven made it back to the NFL, and they were limited to six games.

    -- The 31 DBs in the study by far represented the greatest number at any position. The others with CDH: 12 defensive linemen, 11 offensive linemen, 17 linebackers, 8 running backs, 4 tight ends, 7 wide receivers, 8 quarterbacks and one kicker.
    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...lth/53424974/1

    Wellington K. Hsu, a spine surgeon and assistant professor at Northwestern University, says the fused area should not be vulnerable. "In fact, his neck is probably stronger now than it was before the surgery because he has a solid, bony fusion," Hsu said.

    Rick Sasso, an Indianapolis spine surgeon who, like Hsu, was not involved in Manning's treatment, agrees. "As long as the fusion was solid, that segment is very protected," he said.

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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I don't think that is an accurate statement in any way, shape, or form.
    Yes it is. I've posted a study of Dr. Hsu who tracked length of players career, and even measured the difference in statistical output, IIRC, many times when we were discussing the probability of Peyton playing again.

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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    This Colts team is not a contender with Peyton. That's lunacy. Almost as much as saying the Colts will suck for a decade with Luck. Your entire point is based on nothing but fantasy and absolute worst case scenarios.
    We're 2-3 with a rookie quarterback. At worst, we would be 3-2 with Peyton and would easily dispose of the Browns this weekend if we had him, giving us a 4-2 record. We could maybe even be 4-1 right now with the way Peyton is playing and thus be playing for a 5-1 start this weekend.

    How is that not a contender? Would we be the favorites in the AFC with Peyton? No. But could we go on a run and win a playoff game or two with him? Absolutely, *especially* when you consider that him still being here means we would have likely traded the number 1 pick for other assets.

    It's not like that 09 team that went to the Super Bowl was as talented as the teams we had in the middle of the 2000's. It was all Peyton.

    I completely understand why went the route we did with Luck and I support the direction the franchise is taking. But any team with Peyton playing like he is right now is a contender. The favorite? Probably not, but definitely a contender.

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  12. #134
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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    This Colts team is not a contender with Peyton. That's lunacy. Almost as much as saying the Colts will suck for a decade with Luck. Your entire point is based on nothing but fantasy and absolute worst case scenarios.
    You are a very good poster and I agree with you most of the time but you are very wrong with this...... Think about adding about five or six more high draft picks on this team and adding Peyton and then free agent money coming next year. If they had done that, we might have made another run to the Super Bowl. I am not sure that the Colts will suck for a decade with Luck. I am pretty sure about five years and I am real sure about three years. That is to get to the winning side of ledger. Becoming a contender might be many more years away....

  13. #135

    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    2. Wrong, my posts on the Pacers are much different. I think they are headed in the right direction. I don't think they are the second or third best team in the east but still very good. I have them going 48-32 for the season. That is a very good record I am predicting for them.

    48 + 32 < 82

    I wish Peyton the best, but it's the Andrew Luck era now. Time to move on.

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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Typo, you will find 48-34 on the thread where I made that prediction.......

    Move on to chronic losers? Well, I hope that is good for you.....

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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    We're 2-3 with a rookie quarterback. At worst, we would be 3-2 with Peyton and would easily dispose of the Browns this weekend if we had him, giving us a 4-2 record. We could maybe even be 4-1 right now with the way Peyton is playing and thus be playing for a 5-1 start this weekend.

    How is that not a contender? Would we be the favorites in the AFC with Peyton? No. But could we go on a run and win a playoff game or two with him? Absolutely, *especially* when you consider that him still being here means we would have likely traded the number 1 pick for other assets.

    It's not like that 09 team that went to the Super Bowl was as talented as the teams we had in the middle of the 2000's. It was all Peyton.

    I completely understand why went the route we did with Luck and I support the direction the franchise is taking. But any team with Peyton playing like he is right now is a contender. The favorite? Probably not, but definitely a contender.
    That's a lot of assumptions and what ifs. A contender is a team that has a decent shot at winning the super bowl. Not just someone that can make the playoffs and win a playoff game or 2.

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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by Swingman View Post
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    That's a lot of assumptions and what ifs. A contender is a team that has a decent shot at winning the super bowl. Not just someone that can make the playoffs and win a playoff game or 2.
    You have to get the playoffs and win a game or two to get to the Superbowl. That is a contender but if that is not your definition of a contender, you may not see the Colts contend for 20 years. It took 36 years last time....

  19. #139

    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    We're 2-3 with a rookie quarterback. At worst, we would be 3-2 with Peyton and would easily dispose of the Browns this weekend if we had him, giving us a 4-2 record. We could maybe even be 4-1 right now with the way Peyton is playing and thus be playing for a 5-1 start this weekend.

    How is that not a contender? Would we be the favorites in the AFC with Peyton? No. But could we go on a run and win a playoff game or two with him? Absolutely, *especially* when you consider that him still being here means we would have likely traded the number 1 pick for other assets.

    It's not like that 09 team that went to the Super Bowl was as talented as the teams we had in the middle of the 2000's. It was all Peyton.

    I completely understand why went the route we did with Luck and I support the direction the franchise is taking. But any team with Peyton playing like he is right now is a contender. The favorite? Probably not, but definitely a contender.
    we still lose the chi and jets games no matter what. our o-line needs improvement. luck never had any good protection in those games. if peyton was under that pressure too- he's getting sacked and intercepted as well.

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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by clownskull View Post
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    we still lose the chi and jets games no matter what. our o-line needs improvement. luck never had any good protection in those games. if peyton was under that pressure too- he's getting sacked and intercepted as well.

    That's why I said at worst we'd be 3-2. I was counting the Bears and Jets as losses as I said that. I do think we could have had a shot against the Jets with Manning though. However, there's no way we lose the Jacksonville game with Manning. At worst we're 3-2, but maybe 4-1. We had opportunities against the Jets but just couldn't do anything when we had the ball. They were committing some very dumb penalties.

    And remember, the O-Line would likely look different if Manning was here. We would have gotten a king's ransom for the number 1 pick and likely would have used some of the goods to beef up the line.

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  22. #141

    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    We would have gotten a king's ransom for the number 1 pick and likely would have used some of the goods to beef up the line.
    That's like giving someone a checkbook, telling them to enjoy and there not being any money in the account.

  23. #142
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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    those picks would have rookies. Probably would have gotten some people high on potential but how many are game changers their rookie year, especially on the OL?

    How much cap space would we have to sign all of those 1st rounders? We may still have had to let many players walk to make room. Although the cap situation and all it's rules is a bit confusing to me.

    We would have gotten multiple high picks but wouldn't have had room to trade for Davis and probably wouldn't have room to make moves in FA next year. I don't think of it as we lost getting extra pieces. More a difference of when we get the extra pieces and where they come from (draft or FA).
    Last edited by Swingman; 10-21-2012 at 01:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by clownskull View Post
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    we still lose the chi and jets games no matter what. our o-line needs improvement. luck never had any good protection in those games. if peyton was under that pressure too- he's getting sacked and intercepted as well.
    I think Peyton has 14 TDs and 4 ints. That is mighty good. He gotten sacked a few times. I think that Manning would have made a big difference against the Jets. I don't know if it would be enough to win but it would have been close and there would have been a chance to win. There is no comparison between Luck right now and Manning right now and there won't be as long as Peyton plays the game. Luck is a bottom 25% of the NFL QB. I think he could start for only two teams in the NFC and six in the AFC. You guys just have to quit making excuses and admit that he is outright bad right now. That doesn't mean that he won't get better but it doesn't mean that he will either. He is no better than the fourth best rookie QB starting. Think about how many picks we could have had and still had a QB that ranks better than Luck. Luck may wind up being great but right now, he is not a good NFL QB.... He may not even be better than the QB he is facing today..... and he isn't in that list of three that are above Luck in the rankings....

  25. #144

    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I think Peyton has 14 TDs and 4 ints. That is mighty good. He gotten sacked a few times. I think that Manning would have made a big difference against the Jets. I don't know if it would be enough to win but it would have been close and there would have been a chance to win. There is no comparison between Luck right now and Manning right now and there won't be as long as Peyton plays the game. Luck is a bottom 25% of the NFL QB. I think he could start for only two teams in the NFC and six in the AFC. You guys just have to quit making excuses and admit that he is outright bad right now. That doesn't mean that he won't get better but it doesn't mean that he will either. He is no better than the fourth best rookie QB starting. Think about how many picks we could have had and still had a QB that ranks better than Luck. Luck may wind up being great but right now, he is not a good NFL QB.... He may not even be better than the QB he is facing today..... and he isn't in that list of three that are above Luck in the rankings....
    your evaluation of luck is as close to irrelevant as it gets. you have called him one of the most overrated players in history and have freely admitted your childish reasons for hating him.
    as far as getting better because of those picks we might have gotten- rookie linemen don't usually dominate. they usually need a few seasons to fully adjust to the speed and strength of the nfl d-linemen
    the o-line would still have trouble.
    and we would not be contenders with manning. like someone else said, a real contender can realistically win it all and not just make the playoffs and win a game or two.

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  27. #145
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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I suffered through it year after year after year with phenoms like Jeff George and Jim Harbaugh supposedly taking us to the promised land. It never happened.....
    No wonder you're so bitter. Your view is so skewed that you believed Jim Harbaugh was ever considered a "phenom". You can't tell the difference between who could actually be a phenom, and who can't.

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  29. #146
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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    No wonder you're so bitter. Your view is so skewed that you believed Jim Harbaugh was ever considered a "phenom". You can't tell the difference between who could actually be a phenom, and who can't.
    OK, I will give you that. Harbaugh came here and was supposed to be a very good QB. He was, but he didn't have the arm to make long throws or even sideline throws with velocity......George came into the league with Luck like hype and he had a great arm but no head to go with it....

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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by clownskull View Post
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    your evaluation of luck is as close to irrelevant as it gets. you have called him one of the most overrated players in history and have freely admitted your childish reasons for hating him.
    as far as getting better because of those picks we might have gotten- rookie linemen don't usually dominate. they usually need a few seasons to fully adjust to the speed and strength of the nfl d-linemen
    the o-line would still have trouble.
    and we would not be contenders with manning. like someone else said, a real contender can realistically win it all and not just make the playoffs and win a game or two.
    And like I said, with that definition of being a contender, it might be one or two decades before the Colts get there again. It was 36 years during the last long wait. It could be again....

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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by Swingman View Post
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    those picks would have rookies. Probably would have gotten some people high on potential but how many are game changers their rookie year, especially on the OL?
    Had Peyton stayed I bet Saturday would have stayed. After that, it really doesn't matter. Peyton has played behind a sketchy OL for the past few seasons and in that time frame he's gotten some more personal records and hardware. There's no denying that it would have been crap, but it doesn't change the fact that Peyton makes crap smell like roses.

    Peyton rarely takes sacks, not because his OL is so good, but because he's so good. Good luck getting hits on him, when he's throwing quick hits everytime you bring the blitz.

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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Had Peyton stayed I bet Saturday would have stayed. After that, it really doesn't matter. Peyton has played behind a sketchy OL for the past few seasons and in that time frame he's gotten some more personal records and hardware. There's no denying that it would have been crap, but it doesn't change the fact that Peyton makes crap smell like roses.

    Peyton rarely takes sacks, not because his OL is so good, but because he's so good. Good luck getting hits on him, when he's throwing quick hits everytime you bring the blitz.
    Damn I know some fanatics go to the extreme but this is the first time I hear of somebody smelling a player's crap, you sir are gross

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    Default Re: Here's my plea

    yes or no: would manning make that much difference that we would have a good shot at a super bowl with him on the team?

    Manning is great, Luck is good. I don't see us as Super Bowl contenders either way.

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