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Thread: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

  1. #26

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    I don't think Lance would be cut to make room for Ben, they have alot invested in Lance.
    But, I'd love to see Ben make the team over someone else!

  2. #27

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    If this seriously is making everyone think that Ben is better than Lance, then the Regular Season cannot come soon enough. After all the practices and Preseason games I am sure the coaching staff will be able to make that call. But one preseason game against no point pressure to speak of is not grounds to crown him our third PG and the cutting of Lance.
    Not that I disagree necessarily, but what has Lance ever shown that would make anyone think he is better than Ben? To me they are both wildcards, it's just Lance has been with the club for 2 freakin years and can't crack the rotation.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    I don't think Lance would be cut to make room for Ben, they have alot invested in Lance.
    But, I'd love to see Ben make the team over someone else!
    We should cut Tyler and keep Ben. How awkward would that be?
    David "And One" West

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  5. #29
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    Not that I disagree necessarily, but what has Lance ever shown that would make anyone think he is better than Ben? To me they are both wildcards, it's just Lance has been with the club for 2 freakin years and can't crack the rotation.

    Being a prospect WE do not know. Practice is not the only thing. Lance did not have a break out season last year. I know that burns some of you all. Early last year he was clearly not our Point of the future. In blowout minutes, no one wants to use. The Bulls game means nothing.

    If you want to take anything substantial from last year is that his defense was a lot better. He needs to show consistency this year on both ends when given the time. But to say that one preseason game from Ben equates all the practice improvements and defensive improvements. is evidence that you are easily enamored with the here and now.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    I am certainly not Lance's biggest fan on this board and wouldn't have any problem whatsoever with cutting him but if you sincerely think that cutting him to make room for Ben Hansbrough is either a possibility or a good idea, you need to have your head examined.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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  8. #31
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Lance is making pocket change. He isn't getting cut.

    Lance, I still believe!
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I am certainly not Lance's biggest fan on this board and wouldn't have any problem whatsoever with cutting him but if you sincerely think that cutting him to make room for Ben Hansbrough is either a possibility or a good idea, you need to have your head examined.
    Best post of the thread(besides peck's) not only basketball wise it makes no sense. But cutting a guaranteed deal for a 15th man emergency 5th guard would be so lol. I can't imagine how that talk with Herb would go.

    I dont get the love for the guy plenty of guys have played a good preseason game and tons of them are still playing in China or Euro likley Ben will be there too.

    But good for him he probably just earned himself a better contract over seas.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 10-15-2012 at 12:56 PM.

  11. #33
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    I did not see the game, but I would be careful about evaluating a player based upon one preseason game or even a whole series of preseason games.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 10-15-2012 at 03:53 PM.

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  13. #34

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    I like Psycho B but IF they keep him we'll be seeing Cabbages 2.0.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Ok again right up front letís be clear that I understand this was another pre-season game & therefore everything I say below must be taken in the context that I understand that this is neither a finished product, the lineups we will see or even the lineups of the other team and how it would impact our team.

    Now having said that I am here to eat crow on a couple of things.

    First and foremost Ian Mahinmi is much larger than I thought he was, I mean much. I honestly never paid any attention to him in Dallas & well I really liked (still do btw) Lou Amundson so I always was aghast when people would say how much happier they were with his size when officially they are listed as only two inches apart in height.

    Well allow me right now to put that to bed. Standing side by side on the floor next to each other it wasnít even close. Ian looked more like 7í and Lou looked about 6í7Ē tall and it didnít end there. Ian is also much wider than Lou is.

    Also game wise there is just a world of difference between the two tonight (again pre-season but Iíve seen Lou play enough to know what he can give us). Ian looked at times like he was starting center material out there. Iím sure he was playing above his head tonight and Iím not sure how many min. he put up directly vs. Pekovic but what I saw out of him tonight is now making me question how good I think this team can be.

    I certainly donít want to base to much on a pre-season game vs. an opponent that isnít fielding itís best lineup but Iíll just say I am much more optimistic after the game than I was before.

    This guy not only has legitimate size but he also has soft hands. Paul George rocketed a pass into the post that not a lot of big men could handle but he tapped it back to himself and scored basket.

    I donít think we got to see what he can do defensively much tonight as things were played pretty hectically but still anytime you can come away with 2 blocks & 3 steals your doing something right.

    I still donít like the trade because he could have been signed outright & Collison could have been used to sweeten a deal to move Tyler, but if I look at it as we traded a high quality backup point guard for a high quality back up center I can live with it.

    Ok, here is everybodyís chance to take their shots at me. I really screwed up the Gerald Green vs. Sam Young thing. At least for tonight anyway & I have a feeling since seeing both of them play that this is probably the norm.

    Good God Green can sky. I donít know if they showed it on TV or not but when he came down from that alley oop dunk from Ben Hansbrough he saluted Derrick Williams and earned himself a technical foul. If they say it was hanging on the rim just laugh at them because he honest to God saluted him after he dunked that, it was glorious btw.
    He is active, he is longer than I thought (in fact I have a feeling that this is going to become a theme this year we now have several long athletic players) and he was able to work over the Wolves defenders pretty handily. His defense also was not half bad.

    So between Green & Mahinmi Iím more than willing to eat my words, I was pretty much dead wrong about both of them.

    On the other hand, and I know this isnít going to go over real well, I have not thought much of Augustine. Yes he had some good passes but his defense just turns my stomach. Iím not even sure what it is that he is doing so poorly but it just seems like whatever point guard he is playing can just get to whatever spot on the floor that they want to & he doesnít offer much resistance.

    Maybe when I see him as the backup & I donít have to see him face starters I will get more used to his style of play, but so far I just havenít been all that impressed.

    But if I have to worry about our backup point guard then in reality I think weíve got it pretty good. Remember when not long ago when our third string point guard wasnít that much worse than our starter? My have times have changed, clearly Hill is the top dog & we go from there.

    Obviously after tonightís game Ben Hansbrough is on all of our minds. Letís not forget that the outstanding dunk by Green was there because Psycho B made an absolutely perfect pass to him from out of bounds.

    Now the question is, does tonightís game really mean anything or was this just one of those special nights that a player hits on every now and then?

    Iím guessing he is good but he is not going to be that good very often.

    But it brings up an interesting question that Duke Dynamite must be credited with asking.

    With what you have seen so far does Lance Stephenson really deserve to make the team above Ben? Youíll laugh at first but then the more you think about it youíll start to wonder has Lance every really had this good of an overall game? I donít know the answer to that btw. I know he has had a couple of really good offensive games but Ben tonight was just everywhere & he was a very large part of why we made a second half comeback run.

    Now if you donít want to go so far as to say cut Lance then has what Orlando Johnson shown you so far merited making the team above Ben? Not sure.

    Obviously both of them still have that Potential thing going for them but still, I think it would be hard to tell Ben Hansbrough he was cut after tonightís game. Now if he doesnít even come close to producing this again sure. Honestly in tonightís game I thought he was better than Augustine, however I will also point out that he wasnít playing vs. Barea either.

    David West certainly has toned up his upper torso more than last year, if such a thing is possible. However he seemed to be moving like he was in cement and made no effort on the boards which was disappointing. But that offense of his sure is hard to stop.

    I know it is wrong to say this but Iím sorry from all of the times Iíve seen him on the floor Jeff Pendegraph is limited (that is being very polite btw). Stat wise he did ok but just watching him play hurts my eyes.

    Miles Plumlee needs to learn to get after it on the defensive end a little better, there were a couple of times that I thought he either could have gotten to or at least altered a shot and he didnít even make an effort at doing so. But offensively I think he may be a little better than what we were lead to believe.

    Overall this was a very fun game to be at and honestly I walk away a little more optimistic than when I went in & I was pretty optimistic going in.

    But hey I may change my mind 100 more times (or more) before the start of regular season.
    First preseason game and your already going after Lance. Why wouldn't you name a point guard instead of our 2nd and third string SG if you want to campaign for Ben? Is there a third string PG your in love with. Isn't there an open competition for the third point guard spot. Do you want Ben to be the fourth? Could you explain why you are targeting Lance and Orlando?

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Like I said, I'm not much of a Lance fan, but he's killed the summer league twice now and had a (one! read all about it! a single game!) real NBA game where he did really well.

    Ben Hansrbrough is still not an NBA player and should not make the roster. I'm fine with cutting ties with both, but the idea that little B has earned a spot over Lance is laughable.
    I can name three. He Had great games against William(New Jersey), Atlanta(ran Teague off the floor), and obviously the last game he got significant minutes in(Chicago with Rose).

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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    God I missed these. I love Pacers season.
    "What you do is so loud, I can't hear what you say" -Andrew Luck
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  18. #38
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    First preseason game and your already going after Lance. Why wouldn't you name a point guard instead of our 2nd and third string SG if you want to campaign for Ben? Is there a third string PG your in love with. Isn't there an open competition for the third point guard spot. Do you want Ben to be the fourth? Could you explain why you are targeting Lance and Orlando?
    Neither guy is remotely threatened by Ben Hansbrough but why would anybody be the slightest bit upset if we cut Lance? He's got an unguaranteed contract but more importantly he has contributed next to nothing in his two years here.

    Well, nothing but bad some bad PR and hilarious Bird trolling.
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  19. #39
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Because he might very well start contributing in the very near future? That's a chance you take or don't take, but it's not a ridiculous notion or something to want to waite a little to see how a player develops.
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I'm hardly the biggest Lance fan on the board. But like Mr. Uncertainty said, it's ridiculous to claim that Ben has shown more than Lance. Ben looked awful all the way through summer league, and looked awful in our first preseason game. I was calling us to cut the four camp players, and not one person said "No, we should keep Psycho B."

    Travis D had occasional good games, too. Heck, so did AJ Price. Young Hans may end up being a rotational NBA player, but so far he's not shown more than Lance.
    I thought the same thing. Ben looked terrible defensively and couldn't hit anything during the Summer League. Whenever he came into the game they trapped him hard and he struggled getting the ball up the court and finding the open man. It was like watching Saras "Yesacabbages" all over again.

    One thing I will say about Ben is that he's scrappy. He will rebound and do all of the little things that put smiles on a head coaches face. I didn't see the game but during the Pacers training camp on NBATV, he was the only player out there that consistently crashed the boards during the Moon and Free Throw drills. He's not a great athlete but he is smart and he "goes hard" and those are two things that will land you a job in the NBA.

    Lance on the other hand, just doesn't give much effort or attention to the little things. Boxing out, defensive rotations, and trying to play without the ball in his hands on offense seems to baffle him. I really think he's one of those type of players that if he can't control the ball he has a hard time staying focused and engaged in the game. So, if the Pacers are going to get anything out of him, they need to put the ball in his hands and tell him to create. If they don't, he'll never reach his potential.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Because he might very well start contributing in the very near future? That's a chance you take or don't take, but it's not a ridiculous notion or something to want to waite a little to see how a player develops.
    Sure, as it is I'd just as soon keep him. I don't think there is a chance in hell he turns into a real contributor for this team but we've wasted this much time we might as well waste a little more since he's young and cheap. But if there is a player that the team wants but costs us somebody under contract, Lance should be the one who gets released.

    I think the idea that Ben Hansbrough could be that guy is absurd but the idea that Lance could wind up getting let go is far from it.
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  24. #42
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Sure, as it is I'd just as soon keep him. I don't think there is a chance in hell he turns into a real contributor for this team but we've wasted this much time we might as well waste a little more since he's young and cheap. But if there is a player that the team wants but costs us somebody under contract, Lance should be the one who gets released.

    I think the idea that Ben Hansbrough could be that guy is absurd but the idea that Lance could wind up getting let go is far from it.
    Come on now. You make it seem as if other teams are so much more efficient in their pipeline development? The 10-15 spots on the roster are more often than not, developed exactly the same way on most other teams in the NBA. I suppose they are all wasting their time too?

    This is what happens at the end of the bench. They are all players that could flip into good rotation players (rare), or they can be treated as interchangeable parts on a year-to-year basis depending on the strengths of 1-10.

    I certainly would much prefer us riding out Lance given his potential. He's shown real flashes from my vantage point. Way more than Ben Hans has.

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  26. #43

    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Neither guy is remotely threatened by Ben Hansbrough but why would anybody be the slightest bit upset if we cut Lance? He's got an unguaranteed contract but more importantly he has contributed next to nothing in his two years here.
    Lance's contract is guaranteed this year.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Vogel is on right now with Grady & Joe. Says 13 roster spots are taken, Sam Young will probably be the 14th, and he isn't sure if they'll lock someone down for the 15th spot.

    Translation: Lance isn't getting cut for Ben Hansborough.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Vogel is on right now with Grady & Joe. Says 13 roster spots are taken, Sam Young will probably be the 14th, and he isn't sure if they'll lock someone down for the 15th spot.

    Translation: Lance isn't getting cut for Ben Hansborough.
    He will end up showing off his suit collection for most of the year though.

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  29. #46
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Sam Young will probably be the 14th,
    Understatement of the year.

  30. #47
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Come on now. You make it seem as if other teams are so much more efficient in their pipeline development?
    I do? I don't think Lance would be developed any more had he been on any other team than here.

    I just think a guy who is at best your 5th wing & 4th point guard shouldn't be off limits to cut if a move has to be made.
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  32. #48
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    He will end up showing off his suit collection for most of the year though.
    Nah. Teams are allowed to dress 13 players now. Orlando Johnson will be the odd man out, and whomever gets that coveted 15th spot.

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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Nah. Teams are allowed to dress 13 players now. Orlando Johnson will be the odd man out, and whomever gets that coveted 15th spot.
    I highly doubt we go into the season with 15.
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  35. #50
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    Default Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Understatement of the year.
    By the way the trades went down for the Pacers in that flurry of a day this summer, in retrospect, it seems to me that Sam Young was likely always a part of the plan:

    Last year's rotation guys: Collison, Jones, Barbosa, Hansbrough, Amundsen
    End of bench: Price, Stephenson, Pendergraph, Fesenko

    This year's (likely) rotation guys: Augustin, Young, Green, Hansbrough, Mahinmi
    End of bench: Stephenson, Johnson, Pendergraph, Plumlee

    They wanted a slot on the rotation for Young, most likely. They had to get rid of Collison and Jones to do so. They weren't going to be able to trade Jones, when Young was available on the open market, as Jones has age and close to a $3m contract attached to him. My guess is when they recognized that Augustine was theirs, they pulled the trigger quickly on that trade, trading for someone they would have likely picked up off the free agency wire anyways (Mahinmi). The whole thing was engineered most likely to get Augustine and Young, clearing some of the $ associated with people they weren't going to move forward with anyways.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they signed Young to a multiyear small dollar deal.

    Pretty shrewd.
    Last edited by docpaul; 10-16-2012 at 01:32 PM.

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