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Thread: Game Tonight

  1. #176
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    How do we know we have a really good wing scorer?
    Just because he didn't put up 20 points yesterday, doesn't mean anything. EVERYONE looked bad last night. The first Pacer score of the game is exactly what Green is able to do. Had he knocked down a few wide open J's (which his high FG % from last year proves that he can) then his scoring output would have been much nicer.

    Young doesn't have the ability to score in double figures consistently, Green has showcased that he does have that ability. Yes I do like Young's defense, but I think we can delegate minutes according to what we need in that particular game (more scoring/athleticism or defense)

    Lets wait until after the first pre season game without our 3 starters to make any judgments about our team.

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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    We played a game without 3 of our starters and the other two only played 20 mins each? Meh don't care what happened on the court as long as no one was injured.

  3. #178
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I'd prefer Pends over Hans just cause Pends can rebound better and is probably a better defender.
    Pretty much anyone is better than Hans if he can't get that jumper going.
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  4. #179
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I'm looking at the lineup being
    Hill - DJ
    Paul - Green
    Danny - Young
    West - Ian
    Roy - Ian - Plumlee as needed, big enough to deal fouls out
    Yep, although I see Danny playing some backup 4. Other than that, I think you nailed it.
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  5. #180
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    2 shot blocks on one possession, so yeah I agree. If Tyler or someone had been able to keep those blocks from being recovered they would have actually got a stop. Very frustrating to see shot blocks wasted.

    Roy was fine, I think Plumlee looked better than expected. He physically seems to fit the NBA better than I thought he would. Obviously we will see long term, this is just one tiny blip.

    Ian made several really smart reactions and seemed to read the floor and his plays pretty well most of the time. He fouled too much and fumbled the ball too much, but he also looked like a guy who understood the plan. His footwork and spacing was drastically better than Tyler's (or Lou last year, or Jeff P).

    I'm looking at the lineup being
    Hill - DJ
    Paul - Green
    Danny - Young
    West - Ian
    Roy - Ian - Plumlee as needed, big enough to deal fouls out

    I think the writing is on the wall for Lance and Tyler. Enough experiments and hopeful wishes. Nobody else is going to dress on a typical night.

    And I feel pretty darn good about that lineup. DJ runs the offense, Green and Young can create for themselves and defend well enough to stay on the court, Ian is a physical presence that won't get pushed around, and the starters put up great numbers against competition last year.

    I also liked some of the plays Vogel was working. The whole high post-corner wing-low post combo could yield lots of good shots. They ran the Paul George GnGo back to back, once where it went to him (he fumbled it at the rim) and when were the big kept it and looks for the shot (Tyler jumper? I forget). That kind of action ties into the HP-Wing-LP thing too. And the pass back into the low block that I mentioned them working on in the "NBA Training Camp" show where West pins his guy away from the rim.

    It's a good set of attacks given the talents of Roy and West.



    The team is going to be very good it appears. Better than I hoped.
    Don't you think Green has more value playing the 3. He can stretch the floor and with his speed and athleticism, there aren't many SFs that can stop him.

    I still think Lance will be ok. Having DJ and Lance on the floor together seems like a really good thing...two guys that have excellent court vision. Lance just needs consistent minutes to gain confidence and get better. Hans has at least had consistent minutes and hasn't done jack ***** with it. I'm still in favor of giving Lance a chance. 8min one game and 5 another and a no dress don't count. Give him 15min/night and see where he's at by the all star break.

    Young is just filling the D Jones role, but won't play unless we need a to keep a lead and need a defender.
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  6. #181
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Guy's I want Greene to be as good as you all think he is going to be, he may even be better there is really no way for us to tell right now as we've seen him for about 18 min. in a slop ridden game.

    But please for the love of all that his holy let's not go head over heels for the guy because he has exciting youtube video's that show him scoring at will for a New Jersey team that was already done for the year.

    Sam Young was a starter on a young Memphis team that advanced in the playoffs and Gerald Greene was playing pro ball in Turkey or China or wherever (it wasn't the NBA). So sure we all hope for the redemptive story & yes we can all hope for him to bring the 13 ppg or so to our sixth man role, but right now that is all it is. Hope.

    BTW I have no preferance because IMO it doesn't really matter. Until he is traded away or retires as our second all time scoring leader Danny Granger is going to get the lions share of the min.


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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Guy's I want Greene to be as good as you all think he is going to be, he may even be better there is really no way for us to tell right now as we've seen him for about 18 min. in a slop ridden game.

    But please for the love of all that his holy let's not go head over heels for the guy because he has exciting youtube video's that show him scoring at will for a New Jersey team that was already done for the year.

    Sam Young was a starter on a young Memphis team that advanced in the playoffs and Gerald Greene was playing pro ball in Turkey or China or wherever (it wasn't the NBA). So sure we all hope for the redemptive story & yes we can all hope for him to bring the 13 ppg or so to our sixth man role, but right now that is all it is. Hope.

    BTW I have no preferance because IMO it doesn't really matter. Until he is traded away or retires as our second all time scoring leader Danny Granger is going to get the lions share of the min.
    I've been saying the same thing about Green for a long time, thank you.

  9. #183

    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I've been saying the same thing about Green for a long time, thank you.
    When someone hypes up Green just remind them of DC.

    I have high hopes for Green too, dig his story a lot and all, but the dude hasn't really proven anything other than being able to perform well when opponents are looking at games against him as basically an off day. That's overstating it, but you guys get what I mean.

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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    When someone hypes up Green just remind them of DC.

    I have high hopes for Green too, dig his story a lot and all, but the dude hasn't really proven anything other than being able to perform well when opponents are looking at games against him as basically an off day. That's overstating it, but you guys get what I mean.
    Hater gonna hate.



    Edit:Misread post.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 10-12-2012 at 08:43 AM.

  12. #185

    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Whatever, it's true and you know it. Remember when DC was our "point guard of the future."

    Still made out like bandits in trading for him though. After the JO deal, and there's a big gap, best move Bird made.

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  14. #186
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Guy's I want Greene to be as good as you all think he is going to be, he may even be better there is really no way for us to tell right now as we've seen him for about 18 min. in a slop ridden game.

    But please for the love of all that his holy let's not go head over heels for the guy because he has exciting youtube video's that show him scoring at will for a New Jersey team that was already done for the year.

    Sam Young was a starter on a young Memphis team that advanced in the playoffs and Gerald Greene was playing pro ball in Turkey or China or wherever (it wasn't the NBA). So sure we all hope for the redemptive story & yes we can all hope for him to bring the 13 ppg or so to our sixth man role, but right now that is all it is. Hope.

    BTW I have no preferance because IMO it doesn't really matter. Until he is traded away or retires as our second all time scoring leader Danny Granger is going to get the lions share of the min.
    I like Young don't get me wrong, but let's not act like his career has been all gum drops and lollipops, there is a reason he was floating around as a free agent right before training camp. I like him, but there is no doubt in my mind whether he or Green is the better scorer, which IMO is what we need at the wing. The question though, is, will Green be a good enough scorer?

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  16. #187

    Default Re: Game Tonight

    He would've been our 2nd leading scorer last season while playing the 7th most minutes. I think that's pretty impressive considering he wasn't any more of an offensive focal point for the Nets than Roy/Danny/West were for the Pacers. I think he can score enough.

  17. #188
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Look guys don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Green can't be that scorer. For all I know he could end up being better than Paul George (ha I bet you wanted me to say Granger didn't you ) but right now we have nothing to base this on other than he took full advantage of the opprotunity that New Jersey gave him. BTW, that's not a slam at all. He should be commended for making the most of his situation.

    I Just fear that there are some people setting themselves up for real dissapointment if he is anything less than a double digit scorer who provides at least one windmill dunk a game.


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  19. #189
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Whatever, it's true and you know it. Remember when DC was our "point guard of the future."

    Still made out like bandits in trading for him though. After the JO deal, and there's a big gap, best move Bird made.
    My bad I thought you were trying to be sarcastic on that post, I agree with you.

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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    The biggest question about Green is his durability, not his ability, IMO. His career games played are as follows:

    05-06: 32
    06-07: 81
    07-08: 30
    08-09: 38
    09-11: Did not play in NBA
    11-12: 31

    This is a guy who has played one full season in his entire career, and that was six years ago. Aside from that season, he has never even appeared in over 40 games in a season. He wasn't even in the NBA for two years.

    I'm hoping for the best, but I honestly have rather low expectations given his track record.

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  22. #191

    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    The biggest question about Green is his durability, not his ability, IMO. His career games played are as follows:

    05-06: 32
    06-07: 81
    07-08: 30
    08-09: 38
    09-11: Did not play in NBA
    11-12: 31

    This is a guy who has played one full season in his entire career, and that was six years ago. Aside from that season, he has never even appeared in over 40 games in a season. He wasn't even in the NBA for two years.

    I'm hoping for the best, but I honestly have rather low expectations given his track record.
    His Wikipedia page goes through each season but doesn't mention any injuries. It looks like he just didn't get any minutes. I don't have high expectations for him but it's not because of his durability.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Green

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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    The biggest question about Green is his durability, not his ability, IMO. His career games played are as follows:

    05-06: 32
    06-07: 81
    07-08: 30
    08-09: 38
    09-11: Did not play in NBA
    11-12: 31

    This is a guy who has played one full season in his entire career, and that was six years ago. Aside from that season, he has never even appeared in over 40 games in a season. He wasn't even in the NBA for two years.

    I'm hoping for the best, but I honestly have rather low expectations given his track record.
    Actually this argument is very poor he should be fresher than most NBA players from riding the pine all those years. That would like be saying Lance is injury prone because he wasn't good enough to play his first 2 seasons. He has only been in a NBA rotation twice his 2nd year in the league on a terrible Celtics team and last season when he got his shot off a 10 day contract. He wast mature enough year after year and never had a spot in the rotation. Im curious how he handles being in a winning situation and helping a team win something he has never been apart of even sitting on the bench. I am interested to see how he has matured because his track record wasn't good this is basically like Terence Williams situation right now very good talent but never proved anything and still hasn't. Im rooting for the guy but the Pacers did take a huge gamble on him but $$ wise it isnt a back-breaker if he fails so really not that big of deal.

    EDIT: The 2 times he was in the rotation he only missed 1 game in 112 games that is pretty durable. That was a concern I believe coming out for him he was 6'7 in the 190 he was skinny as a rail still is but some guys are just built like that and can last ala Reggie.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 10-12-2012 at 10:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    The thing with Green that gets me excited is not that he has fantastic talent, a good stroke, and is athletic as all get out. It is that he seems to have a completely different perspective on life. That is the kind of thing that will change the way you go about your professional life and allows you to use all of those talents to their potential. That is what gives me hope. It's the idea that maturity matters and his talent is undeniable.
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  27. #194
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    I guess my thing with Green and Young is that Green has more talent and the potential to give the team more than what Young does. Yes he put up good scoring numbers on a bad team, but it's still proof that the guy can score. His talent has NEVER been questioned anywhere he's gone. Young is what he is; a tough as nails, physical defensive presence, that may be able to give us 6 or 7 points within the flow of the game.

    I don't think (hope) anybody is expecting Green to come in and average 13 points per game like he did last year. But I do think that he can at the very least give us a little more than what Barbosa gave us offensively, while being able to have the size to matchup with other wings. The highlight dunks and the 3pt shooting are things that are good to bring off the bench, and aside from PG, he is probably the only player on the team that has the ability to do those things. I don't think it's unrealistic to think he can bring those skills to the team.

  28. #195
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I still think Lance will be ok. Having DJ and Lance on the floor together seems like a really good thing...two guys that have excellent court vision. Lance just needs consistent minutes to gain confidence and get better. Hans has at least had consistent minutes and hasn't done jack ***** with it. I'm still in favor of giving Lance a chance. 8min one game and 5 another and a no dress don't count. Give him 15min/night and see where he's at by the all star break.
    We may not see Lance's real value until two or three months into the season, as defenses improve and scouting reports identify various players' single dimensionalities. At that point, we will be looking for some way to score after our 27 perimeter scorers are consistently getting shut down. (Augustin may also help with this.)
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  29. #196
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    The thing with Green that gets me excited is not that he has fantastic talent, a good stroke, and is athletic as all get out. It is that he seems to have a completely different perspective on life. That is the kind of thing that will change the way you go about your professional life and allows you to use all of those talents to their potential. That is what gives me hope. It's the idea that maturity matters and his talent is undeniable.
    I realize that this is my very cynical nature talking here but from my point of view I have read to many Tinsley/Artest/O'Neal/Bender/Williams redemption story's.

    I'm not comparing Green to them btw, it's just that I pretty much consider all p.r. to be fluff until proven otherwise.

    This may all very well be true, I hope it is.

    But until we get some season time behind us I just can't take it at face value.


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  31. #197
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    Default Re: Game Tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I realize that this is my very cynical nature talking here but from my point of view I have read to many Tinsley/Artest/O'Neal/Bender/Williams redemption story's.

    I'm not comparing Green to them btw, it's just that I pretty much consider all p.r. to be fluff until proven otherwise.

    This may all very well be true, I hope it is.

    But until we get some season time behind us I just can't take it at face value.
    I feel the same way, I would like to know an example of a player that was in and out of the NBA for six years and then he came back to be a good player, anybody has a good example?

    I remember that at one time I thought Green had a good future and could have possibly be a great player but that was six years ago.

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    The obvious win-now move to me would be to use both Young and Green and bench Stephenson, but I'm cool with them initially using Lance because this is still a good time to fish around to see if he can put his game together or not.

    If he can't do it within the first month or two of the season, I just punt on that particular project and use Young and Green.

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    I think Green is somewhat unique b/c he was clearly drafted based upon his athletic abilities only vs any basketball IQ/talent. He’s the type of player that should have gone 2nd round, spent some time in the d-league, developed, and latched back onto a team. Boston likely felt forced to play him based upon his draft position and never really gave him the proper time to develop in a developmental type league. He ends up getting cut with no support system, which even further delayed his development.

    While I can’t think of any players that have taken the specific path of Green, there are several players that failed initially in the NBA, bounced around the D-league or overseas, and then came back as a productive bench player for a NBA team. McRoberts, Kuofos, & Will Bynum are names that come to the top of my head (there are others, but those are three that at least had spots in a rotation).

    IMO, a good best-case comparison to Gerald Green is Tony Allen. Tony Allen was a knucklehead with athleticism when he first entered the league. It took him about 6-7 years to develop his IQ and skill set and now he is a productive player. He never left the NBA, but he was a scrub for a while out there in Boston.

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