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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Keeping David West

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  • #31
    Re: Keeping David West

    Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
    Not trying to start an argument or anything like that but I'm pretty sure a lot of power forwards can score 12ppg, hell even Tyler in his horrible year last year was able to average 9ppg.
    Not all 12 ppg players are equal.

    West is well respected as a scorer and the attention he will get from the defense is different than what Tyler would get even if he scored 12 per.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Keeping David West

      I hope we can resign him. He has a reputation for not caring about money.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Keeping David West

        You take David West off this team after this season and you've got to find a different, but similar priced, starting PF and hope they're as good for toughness and leadership. Why mess with that? And you may still regress on the court by paying a similar amount to his replacement.

        West's contract is not unreasonable for a starting PF that is also a team leader. I see him resigning for something similar to the current deal, or this team will take somewhat of a tumble in the standings without him and still have cap issues because a starting PF will still cost what he's asking.

        I'd wait to concern myself with Paul George's next contract when he proves that he's moved beyond what could be replaced by some other wing player on a rookie contract. What David shows - maturity, leadership, making plays in the clutch, is pretty valuable even if his "potential" to improve isn't high any more. We can all hope in another four or five years that Paul George becomes the kind of overall player that David West already is and should continue to be for at least 3-4 seasons (barring injury, of course.)
        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
        And life itself, rushing over me
        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Keeping David West

          David West already is and should continue to be for at least 3-4 seasons (barring injury, of course.)
          So is David West someway somehow finding the fountain of youth? 3 or 4 more seasons?
          @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Keeping David West

            Originally posted by xBulletproof View Post
            Not all 12 ppg players are equal.

            West is well respected as a scorer and the attention he will get from the defense is different than what Tyler would get even if he scored 12 per.
            Well WAS respected he is not that guy anymore, by the way that was JOB's thinking when he decided to make Murphy his main option how that worked out?

            By looking at starting power forwards in the NBA West is on the bottom in scoring and he is supposed to be an scorer because he doesn't bring defense or rebounding.
            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Keeping David West

              Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
              So is David West someway somehow finding the fountain of youth? 3 or 4 more seasons?
              He'll be 35 in 3 years, 36 if you consider it 3 seasons after this one. I think he has that in him. However, I don't think he's going to sign a major contract at the age of 33. He'll take a significant paycut next year. I hope we can keep him for 2 more seasons in the 6-7 mil range. Just far enough over the MLE to keep most suiters away.
              Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Keeping David West

                Originally posted by wintermute View Post
                This is also possible. But the big question is - who? If we let West and Augustin walk next season, we will have about $8-9m in cap space after taking roster charges etc into account. That's not nearly enough for Josh Smith, who's probably the top FA PF next season. It may be enough for Paul Millsap though, so I guess he's the guy to watch out for.

                As for trade, well we don't really have a lot of trade assets. Trading say, Granger, for a young talented PF would just open a hole at another position. Ideally, we'd sent out West himself for a younger replacement, but I don't know how much value West will have as a half year rental.

                I still think it's more likely that we re-sign David West than any other option. But things can change a lot by end of the season. We'll see.
                If it means we lose a couple of bench guys, but we can somehow add Josh Smith to Hill, George, Granger, and Hibbert, that's something you HAVE to do. Pritchard and Walsh should spend the entire season trying to figure out how to make that work. Josh Smith would absolutely be my #1 target.

                That's not to say I think it's likely he's who we would get. But he's definitely who I would shoot for.
                It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Keeping David West

                  Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
                  He'll be 35 in 3 years, 36 if you consider it 3 seasons after this one. I think he has that in him. However, I don't think he's going to sign a major contract at the age of 33. He'll take a significant paycut next year. I hope we can keep him for 2 more seasons in the 6-7 mil range. Just far enough over the MLE to keep most suiters away.
                  Just a quick question, what are your goals for the Pacers? if you are thinking first to second rounds playoffs exits yeah go ahead and sign him for five years, but a championship? I don't think so.

                  How many power forwards are in the NBA that are 34/35/36 and can still play at a high level? Dirk? Who else? how many players in the NBA play at a high level at that age? not many, and the ones that do are usually hall of famers and is not like West was playing at a high level last year either.
                  Last edited by vnzla81; 10-07-2012, 01:20 AM.
                  @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Keeping David West

                    Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                    Just a quick question, what are your goals for the Pacers? if you are thinking first to second rounds playoffs exits yeah go ahead and sign him for five years, but a championship? I don't think so.

                    How many power forwards are in the NBA that are 34/35/36 and can still play at a high level? Dirk? Who else? how many players in the NBA play at a high level at that age? not many, and the ones that do are usually hall of famers.
                    I proposed 2 years in which case he'd be 35 at the end of the contract and I think he'll be at about the same level then which is solid but not an all star level. KG would be another PF playing at a high level in his late 30's but of course West has never been on that level.
                    I'd love for us to sign a big name PF but I have no confidence in Walsh doing so after seeing how he spent 10 mil in cap space this summer. If Bird is back we might stand a chance of going after a better player.
                    Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Keeping David West

                      As surprising as it may sound, a lot will depend on how well he and the team do this season.

                      But I would definitely contact Millsap. Real blue collar guy and a team constructed like these Pacers need to have one of the best defenses in the league to have a shot at the title.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Keeping David West

                        Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                        That way people can start complaining about a power forward who can't score and therefore forces our offense to have to play four on five.
                        That's what happened the last time the Pacers had a powerforward who could only play defense and rebound. Pacers fans don't seem to think to highly of Dale Davis.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Keeping David West

                          Originally posted by pizza guy View Post
                          If it means we lose a couple of bench guys, but we can somehow add Josh Smith to Hill, George, Granger, and Hibbert, that's something you HAVE to do. Pritchard and Walsh should spend the entire season trying to figure out how to make that work. Josh Smith would absolutely be my #1 target.

                          That's not to say I think it's likely he's who we would get. But he's definitely who I would shoot for.
                          i'd be scared. too much stupid. I'd be scared to replace the leader of the team with something opposite. Now Millsap, that's close enough.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Keeping David West

                            Originally posted by hackashaq View Post
                            i'd be scared. too much stupid. I'd be scared to replace the leader of the team with something opposite. Now Millsap, that's close enough.
                            As much of a leader as he has been, I think he was brought in to show the young guys how to be professionals and how to be leaders. After this season, Danny, Roy, and both Georges will be leaders. Especially Roy. With the culture we have now, you can make this trade off, IMO.
                            It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Keeping David West

                              Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                              Well WAS respected he is not that guy anymore, by the way that was JOB's thinking when he decided to make Murphy his main option how that worked out?

                              By looking at starting power forwards in the NBA West is on the bottom in scoring and he is supposed to be an scorer because he doesn't bring defense or rebounding.
                              What are you even talking about with the JOB thing? What does JOB or Murphy have anything to do with David West?

                              David West is not "at the bottom" in scoring at PF by any measure. He's 23rd in points scored by "forwards". That's SF, and PF on NBA.com. He's 25th in minutes on that same list. He's still well respected as a scorer. Teams know he can go off on any night if given the chance. Nobody feels that way about Tyler, just because he scored 9 PPG. They'll leave him to help elsewhere before they will West. West's minutes and touches were down, not his efficiency. His usage rating was the lowest it had been since his 2nd year in the NBA. If he gets the minutes and touches he can still score 15-18 PPG. I doubt anyone else questions that, but you.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Keeping David West

                                If David West will resign for anything up to his current contract you have to do it. The guy knows how to take care of his body, so I think it is realistic that he could still produce at a high level when he's 35/36.

                                My thing is that I remember all the talk about who we should pick up at PF last summer. So much talk about the stats and being able to play both 4 and 5 spots. I got so wrapped up in all that, that I wasn't really sure how I felt about picking up DWest. Then it became obvious that he was more than his statistics. David West absolutely, positively was the right fit for this lineup. That kind of stuff is extremely hard to predict, especially for the lay-people like us. To go out and say, "this guy could give us 2 more points and 1.5 more rebounds per game so we should grab him instead," would just not do the situation justice. Josh Smith or Milsap (whom I'd rather see in a blue and gold uniform) may bring stats but hurt the overall team effort. We know DW doesn't do that.

                                David West fits the Pacers like a glove. We've got him. He's still got highly productive time left in his career. As long as the numbers are sane, we have to resign him.

                                ... plus he's one of my favorite 'character' guys in the whole league.

                                Comment

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