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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Keeping David West

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  • #61
    Re: Keeping David West

    By the stats last year, David West is better than Zack Randolph. And so is 2/3 of the starting PFs. So by vnzla's logic.

    Ryan Anderson>>>>>>>>Zack Randolph

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Keeping David West

      Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
      By the stats last year, David West is better than Zack Randolph. And so is 2/3 of the starting PFs. So by vnzla's logic.

      Ryan Anderson>>>>>>>>Zack Randolph
      And that wasn't my logic, somebody else has that logic, West scored more points than Zbo so West >>>>>>>> Zbo.
      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Keeping David West

        Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
        And that wasn't my logic, somebody else has that logic, West scored more points than Zbo so West >>>>>>>> Zbo.

        Yeah I don't agree with it. Randolph was injured and recoverying, so there is a reason why he averaged 13 ppg after a career year. Same with West.

        He was coming back from an injury and I do not expect him to have the same start as he did last year. He will not be better offesnsivley than Aldridge, Dirk, Blake, Amare, KLove, JR Smith, Pau, Milsap, Bosh, Duncan, or Nene.

        But I think he will be what we need for the price we can allot to that possession And I don't think any of those teams would ever trade for him, without us giving something else up.

        And we can't overlook the leadership. Cause really a Nene skill set with a David West persona minus the doucheness is Kevin Garnett.*






        *I realize this comment is an analogy and it may not line up perfectly with everything it is comparing. Please do not try and waste 3 posts in getting this clarified.(*)

        (*) this disclaimer is not projected at anyone poster in general just a formality that we need to make (**)

        (**) this disclaimer of a disclaimer of a disclaimer is starting to look like a stoned cartoon character.
        Last edited by Major Cold; 10-07-2012, 10:16 PM. Reason: mess up

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Keeping David West

          Originally posted by xBulletproof View Post
          What are you even talking about with the JOB thing? What does JOB or Murphy have anything to do with David West?

          David West is not "at the bottom" in scoring at PF by any measure. He's 23rd in points scored by "forwards". That's SF, and PF on NBA.com. He's 25th in minutes on that same list. He's still well respected as a scorer. Teams know he can go off on any night if given the chance. Nobody feels that way about Tyler, just because he scored 9 PPG. They'll leave him to help elsewhere before they will West. West's minutes and touches were down, not his efficiency. His usage rating was the lowest it had been since his 2nd year in the NBA. If he gets the minutes and touches he can still score 15-18 PPG. I doubt anyone else questions that, but you.
          And a good portion of his scoring is out of true low post moves. He's a better low post scorer than Roy at this point and draws doubles or defensive specialists (like Battier in the playoffs) to try to solve him. His game doesn't rely specifically on quickness, and in no way does it involve hops, so he's not about to be "too old" for his game.

          As long as he keeps the shooting touch on the fade and has strength he should be pretty reliable to give guys fits in the post while stepping away if they overplay. I don't see any reason to expect a non-injury drop in the next 3 years.


          Maybe a more accurate list of the West type of PFs in order of PPG last year. 6 RPG required, 1.0 or less 3PA per game required, 6'9" to 6'11" and listed as F or F-C only. Cousins is about the only center that ended up on the list. You lose Ryan Anderson and Kevin Love who do a lot of their scoring at the 3pt line. Anderson in particular has no inside scoring offense, nothing back to the basket like West.

          This puts him about 14-15 in the NBA, and since many of these guys would require Hibbert or better money I'd say that he's about right for your 3rd highest paid guy.

          http://bkref.com/tiny/a2vOq
          Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 10-08-2012, 12:11 AM.

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Keeping David West

            Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
            Yeah ESPN 500 is such a great tool.......
            Speaking of tools......

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Keeping David West

              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
              And a good portion of his scoring is out of true low post moves. He's a better low post scorer than Roy at this point and draws doubles or defensive specialists (like Battier in the playoffs) to try to solve him. His game doesn't rely specifically on quickness, and in no way does it involve hops, so he's not about to be "too old" for his game.

              As long as he keeps the shooting touch on the fade and has strength he should be pretty reliable to give guys fits in the post while stepping away if they overplay. I don't see any reason to expect a non-injury drop in the next 3 years.
              In all honesty, if the Pacers are down by 1 or 2 points and in there last possession of the game, I would want the ball to go through West in the post. Why? He is a very capable scorer, he is very unselfish and he makes good decisions about when to shoot and when to dish off. I think Hill is similar, although perhaps not as good in the categories mentioned.

              But, if you consider Hibbert, Granger and George, I believe all three are more selfish than the other two and not nearly as conscious about where we are in the shot clock when they are holding the ball.

              Slam West all you want, but regardless of how many points, he is probably our best "team" player. He knows as well as any player on the floor what he should do and should not do with the ball nearly every time he touches it.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Keeping David West

                There is a reason it only took a couple of games last season for Hill and West to become my two favorites on the roster. I actually thought Hibbert would hold that title, but he dropped to #3.

                Its not like Vogel took the same roster, after the Chicago meltdown where both the team and coach looked a long way from becoming playoff tested, to a team that looked like a legit playoff team capable of a deep run. Adding West and Hill was huge, and subtracting West after this season would be about as stupid as...
                Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                And life itself, rushing over me
                Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Keeping David West

                  DWest is a much bigger part of this team than a 4-man who can play the 5. He's a great passer, solid rebounder, the most mature on the team and has a gameface that scares guards driving to the basket. His fire for the game is unmatched, and he's been training this offseason instead of rehabbing his knee. I expect him to have a huge year, and if the Pacers don't resign him the loss of his intangibles would be worse than his physical presence. He's a competitor, and if we don't win it all this year I think he'll want to stay and bring one home before he leaves for a lesser team with more money, just my 2 cents though
                  Forever struggling to convince myself "In Larry we trust"
                  Writer at NoseBleedSectionSports.com

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Keeping David West

                    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                    Maybe a more accurate list of the West type of PFs in order of PPG last year. 6 RPG required, 1.0 or less 3PA per game required, 6'9" to 6'11" and listed as F or F-C only. Cousins is about the only center that ended up on the list. You lose Ryan Anderson and Kevin Love who do a lot of their scoring at the 3pt line. Anderson in particular has no inside scoring offense, nothing back to the basket like West.

                    This puts him about 14-15 in the NBA, and since many of these guys would require Hibbert or better money I'd say that he's about right for your 3rd highest paid guy.

                    http://bkref.com/tiny/a2vOq
                    Love, Josh Smith,Ryan Anderson,Gasol, Dirk, Millsap, Andrea Bargnani,Amare, Zbo and Nene need to be on that list you posted, just because some of them shoot 3's and don't meet the requirements that you are talking about is not reason to punish them, at the end of the day they still play the position, what are you going to post next? players that go left more per game making West a top 5 left handed scorer?
                    Last edited by vnzla81; 10-08-2012, 12:19 PM.
                    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Keeping David West

                      Figured it was important for everyone to know that we can't extend West

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Keeping David West

                        Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                        Figured it was important for everyone to know that we can't extend West
                        Extend as in add years to his current contract before it expires at the end of the season? No we can't.

                        Re-signing him on the other hand, is a different matter. We don't have full Bird rights, but we can sign him to a non-Bird contract, I.e. 120% of his old contract. That should be more than enough to keep him if we're so inclined.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Keeping David West

                          Do you ever wonder if the Pacers do actually see Paul George as more of a 3 instead of a 2 if maybe they just move Danny to the 4?

                          In today's NBA Danny at the 4 would be more than capable vs. most teams.

                          If so the team may be ok letting West walk if the money is not right & either signing another guard or re-signing D.J. Augistine to play along side Hill.

                          Danny matches up very well vs. a lot of 4's anyway and as he gets older he may progress to that position.


                          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Keeping David West

                            Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                            So screw the average and let's go for points scored? not wonder why you think he is so great

                            It's also looks like West scored more points than Bosh, Howard and Rose on the playoffs last year so West > Howard,Rose and Bosh
                            You do realize that players tend to take about a year to fully come back from the type of injury West had right? He should be much better this season, he has been a consistent 19-21 ppg player for years, he won't score that much on a balanced team like ours, but he's alot better than you give him credit for.
                            Goodbye Captain, My Captain. I wish you had the chance to sink or swim with your ship on its quest for the "ship".

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Keeping David West

                              Originally posted by Peck View Post
                              Do you ever wonder if the Pacers do actually see Paul George as more of a 3 instead of a 2 if maybe they just move Danny to the 4?

                              In today's NBA Danny at the 4 would be more than capable vs. most teams.

                              If so the team may be ok letting West walk if the money is not right & either signing another guard or re-signing D.J. Augistine to play along side Hill.

                              Danny matches up very well vs. a lot of 4's anyway and as he gets older he may progress to that position.
                              Peck asking for the dreaded stretch 4?!?

                              Lol JK

                              I agree that DG would be a much better player at the 4 as opposed to the 3--at this point in his career. It'd definitely open the floor more, and we wouldn't lose much on the defensive end. With PG being an above average rebounder, I don't think we would be killed on the boards either.

                              IMHO, even if we DID re-sign West, I'd rather move Danny to the 4 and West to the bench. As West gets older, he'd be a great scoring option to bring off the bench.

                              For me, the true question would be, what would we do with our other positions? DO we re-sign Augustine and move GH to the 2? Do we push Gerald Green to the starting lineup and leave GH at the 1? Do we use the money we would have used on West, to sign another wing player?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Keeping David West

                                Keeping David West...
                                Doubt it!
                                Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

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