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Thread: Keeping David West

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case.....which IMHO means that DWest is gone next season unless he can be had for a slightly above average but reasonable price.

    Add in that the Pacers have had an obvious interest in Milsap for the longest time ( who happens to also be a UFA ).......I don't see us getting older...I see us getting younger.
    I'd think it would depend on how much Milsap would command on the open market. Yes he would be a great fit for this team, but how much are the Pacers willing to spend (or is going to have available to spend). If we could get Milsap on the books for 8-9 mil a yr, I'd think we'd be good. It'll be interesting to see what these guys market value is.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I'd think it would depend on how much Milsap would command on the open market. Yes he would be a great fit for this team, but how much are the Pacers willing to spend (or is going to have available to spend). If we could get Milsap on the books for 8-9 mil a yr, I'd think we'd be good. It'll be interesting to see what these guys market value is.
    He's a very proven and efficient ( but undersized ) Starting quality PF that has averaged 16ppg/8rpg/1.6spg on 33mpg and will be 28 1/2 at the start of the 2013-2014 offseason. I think that he will get a hefty $10 to 11 mil contract offer 3 year / 4th year Player Option contract offer. You may think that is too much for him and I'd love to get him on the cheap....but this is Milsaps first UFA contract.....he's not going to go cheap.

    Financially...if we leave things the way they are now...it would be hard to make the #s work. But if Lance, Green and DJ significantly improve the 2nd unit...especially Lance....I could see Hansbrough moved for a 2nd round pick and $$$ before the 2012 Trade Deadeline......while pushing Granger over to the backup PF spot....mainly to get some assets for Hansbrough while clearing up Capspace.
    Last edited by CableKC; 10-06-2012 at 02:31 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    He's a very proven and efficient ( but undersized ) Starting quality PF that has averaged 16ppg/8rpg/1.6spg on 33mpg and will be 28 1/2 at the start of the 2013-2014 offseason. I'd love to get him on the cheap....but this is Milsaps first UFA contract.....he's not going to go cheap. I think that he will get a hefty $10+ mil contract offer ( give or take a mil ).

    Financially...if we leave things the way they are now...it would be hard to make the #s work. But if Lance, Green and DJ significantly improve the 2nd unit...especially Lance....I could see Hansbrough moved for a 2nd round pick and $$$...while pushing Granger over to the backup PF spot....mainly to get some assets for Hansbrough while clearing up Capspace.
    I guess my thinking had a little to with the new CBA. Perhaps its wishful thinking but I'd like to think that the league would get away from paying hefty, 10+ million dollar contacts to guys that are in the 2nd and 3rd tier of players.

    If he comes in at 10mil+ then I'd there's no way that we make a move to get him. We could potentially do a sign and trade, but there would be zero benefit for Milsap to agree to those terms.

  4. #29

    Default Re: Keeping David West

    i do agree he's probably 10 mil +. Maybe up to Granger's salary. The guy is a marginal all star. He's around where D-West was prior to the injury.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I guess my thinking had a little to with the new CBA. Perhaps its wishful thinking but I'd like to think that the league would get away from paying hefty, 10+ million dollar contacts to guys that are in the 2nd and 3rd tier of players.

    If he comes in at 10mil+ then I'd there's no way that we make a move to get him. We could potentially do a sign and trade, but there would be zero benefit for Milsap to agree to those terms.
    I agree that the CBA has likely tempered the willingness of Teams to overpay for mediocre talent. Based off of this last season's contract offers, my guess is that teams will only overpay for quality talent...which Milsap certainly qualifies as.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Not trying to start an argument or anything like that but I'm pretty sure a lot of power forwards can score 12ppg, hell even Tyler in his horrible year last year was able to average 9ppg.
    Not all 12 ppg players are equal.

    West is well respected as a scorer and the attention he will get from the defense is different than what Tyler would get even if he scored 12 per.

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  8. #32

    Default Re: Keeping David West

    I hope we can resign him. He has a reputation for not caring about money.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    You take David West off this team after this season and you've got to find a different, but similar priced, starting PF and hope they're as good for toughness and leadership. Why mess with that? And you may still regress on the court by paying a similar amount to his replacement.

    West's contract is not unreasonable for a starting PF that is also a team leader. I see him resigning for something similar to the current deal, or this team will take somewhat of a tumble in the standings without him and still have cap issues because a starting PF will still cost what he's asking.

    I'd wait to concern myself with Paul George's next contract when he proves that he's moved beyond what could be replaced by some other wing player on a rookie contract. What David shows - maturity, leadership, making plays in the clutch, is pretty valuable even if his "potential" to improve isn't high any more. We can all hope in another four or five years that Paul George becomes the kind of overall player that David West already is and should continue to be for at least 3-4 seasons (barring injury, of course.)
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  12. #34
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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    David West already is and should continue to be for at least 3-4 seasons (barring injury, of course.)
    So is David West someway somehow finding the fountain of youth? 3 or 4 more seasons?

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Not all 12 ppg players are equal.

    West is well respected as a scorer and the attention he will get from the defense is different than what Tyler would get even if he scored 12 per.
    Well WAS respected he is not that guy anymore, by the way that was JOB's thinking when he decided to make Murphy his main option how that worked out?

    By looking at starting power forwards in the NBA West is on the bottom in scoring and he is supposed to be an scorer because he doesn't bring defense or rebounding.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So is David West someway somehow finding the fountain of youth? 3 or 4 more seasons?
    He'll be 35 in 3 years, 36 if you consider it 3 seasons after this one. I think he has that in him. However, I don't think he's going to sign a major contract at the age of 33. He'll take a significant paycut next year. I hope we can keep him for 2 more seasons in the 6-7 mil range. Just far enough over the MLE to keep most suiters away.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    This is also possible. But the big question is - who? If we let West and Augustin walk next season, we will have about $8-9m in cap space after taking roster charges etc into account. That's not nearly enough for Josh Smith, who's probably the top FA PF next season. It may be enough for Paul Millsap though, so I guess he's the guy to watch out for.

    As for trade, well we don't really have a lot of trade assets. Trading say, Granger, for a young talented PF would just open a hole at another position. Ideally, we'd sent out West himself for a younger replacement, but I don't know how much value West will have as a half year rental.

    I still think it's more likely that we re-sign David West than any other option. But things can change a lot by end of the season. We'll see.
    If it means we lose a couple of bench guys, but we can somehow add Josh Smith to Hill, George, Granger, and Hibbert, that's something you HAVE to do. Pritchard and Walsh should spend the entire season trying to figure out how to make that work. Josh Smith would absolutely be my #1 target.

    That's not to say I think it's likely he's who we would get. But he's definitely who I would shoot for.
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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    He'll be 35 in 3 years, 36 if you consider it 3 seasons after this one. I think he has that in him. However, I don't think he's going to sign a major contract at the age of 33. He'll take a significant paycut next year. I hope we can keep him for 2 more seasons in the 6-7 mil range. Just far enough over the MLE to keep most suiters away.
    Just a quick question, what are your goals for the Pacers? if you are thinking first to second rounds playoffs exits yeah go ahead and sign him for five years, but a championship? I don't think so.

    How many power forwards are in the NBA that are 34/35/36 and can still play at a high level? Dirk? Who else? how many players in the NBA play at a high level at that age? not many, and the ones that do are usually hall of famers and is not like West was playing at a high level last year either.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 10-07-2012 at 01:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Just a quick question, what are your goals for the Pacers? if you are thinking first to second rounds playoffs exits yeah go ahead and sign him for five years, but a championship? I don't think so.

    How many power forwards are in the NBA that are 34/35/36 and can still play at a high level? Dirk? Who else? how many players in the NBA play at a high level at that age? not many, and the ones that do are usually hall of famers.
    I proposed 2 years in which case he'd be 35 at the end of the contract and I think he'll be at about the same level then which is solid but not an all star level. KG would be another PF playing at a high level in his late 30's but of course West has never been on that level.
    I'd love for us to sign a big name PF but I have no confidence in Walsh doing so after seeing how he spent 10 mil in cap space this summer. If Bird is back we might stand a chance of going after a better player.

  19. #40

    Default Re: Keeping David West

    As surprising as it may sound, a lot will depend on how well he and the team do this season.

    But I would definitely contact Millsap. Real blue collar guy and a team constructed like these Pacers need to have one of the best defenses in the league to have a shot at the title.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    That way people can start complaining about a power forward who can't score and therefore forces our offense to have to play four on five.
    That's what happened the last time the Pacers had a powerforward who could only play defense and rebound. Pacers fans don't seem to think to highly of Dale Davis.
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  22. #42

    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by pizza guy View Post
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    If it means we lose a couple of bench guys, but we can somehow add Josh Smith to Hill, George, Granger, and Hibbert, that's something you HAVE to do. Pritchard and Walsh should spend the entire season trying to figure out how to make that work. Josh Smith would absolutely be my #1 target.

    That's not to say I think it's likely he's who we would get. But he's definitely who I would shoot for.
    i'd be scared. too much stupid. I'd be scared to replace the leader of the team with something opposite. Now Millsap, that's close enough.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    i'd be scared. too much stupid. I'd be scared to replace the leader of the team with something opposite. Now Millsap, that's close enough.
    As much of a leader as he has been, I think he was brought in to show the young guys how to be professionals and how to be leaders. After this season, Danny, Roy, and both Georges will be leaders. Especially Roy. With the culture we have now, you can make this trade off, IMO.
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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Well WAS respected he is not that guy anymore, by the way that was JOB's thinking when he decided to make Murphy his main option how that worked out?

    By looking at starting power forwards in the NBA West is on the bottom in scoring and he is supposed to be an scorer because he doesn't bring defense or rebounding.
    What are you even talking about with the JOB thing? What does JOB or Murphy have anything to do with David West?

    David West is not "at the bottom" in scoring at PF by any measure. He's 23rd in points scored by "forwards". That's SF, and PF on NBA.com. He's 25th in minutes on that same list. He's still well respected as a scorer. Teams know he can go off on any night if given the chance. Nobody feels that way about Tyler, just because he scored 9 PPG. They'll leave him to help elsewhere before they will West. West's minutes and touches were down, not his efficiency. His usage rating was the lowest it had been since his 2nd year in the NBA. If he gets the minutes and touches he can still score 15-18 PPG. I doubt anyone else questions that, but you.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    If David West will resign for anything up to his current contract you have to do it. The guy knows how to take care of his body, so I think it is realistic that he could still produce at a high level when he's 35/36.

    My thing is that I remember all the talk about who we should pick up at PF last summer. So much talk about the stats and being able to play both 4 and 5 spots. I got so wrapped up in all that, that I wasn't really sure how I felt about picking up DWest. Then it became obvious that he was more than his statistics. David West absolutely, positively was the right fit for this lineup. That kind of stuff is extremely hard to predict, especially for the lay-people like us. To go out and say, "this guy could give us 2 more points and 1.5 more rebounds per game so we should grab him instead," would just not do the situation justice. Josh Smith or Milsap (whom I'd rather see in a blue and gold uniform) may bring stats but hurt the overall team effort. We know DW doesn't do that.

    David West fits the Pacers like a glove. We've got him. He's still got highly productive time left in his career. As long as the numbers are sane, we have to resign him.

    ... plus he's one of my favorite 'character' guys in the whole league.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    What are you even talking about with the JOB thing? What does JOB or Murphy have anything to do with David West?

    David West is not "at the bottom" in scoring at PF by any measure. He's 23rd in points scored by "forwards". That's SF, and PF on NBA.com. He's 25th in minutes on that same list. He's still well respected as a scorer. Teams know he can go off on any night if given the chance. Nobody feels that way about Tyler, just because he scored 9 PPG. They'll leave him to help elsewhere before they will West. West's minutes and touches were down, not his efficiency. His usage rating was the lowest it had been since his 2nd year in the NBA. If he gets the minutes and touches he can still score 15-18 PPG. I doubt anyone else questions that, but you.
    I'm bringing up Troy Murphy because I remember that JOB used to think the same thing, "just put TroyMurphy up there and he is goin to keep the defense honest and he can go for 30 at anytime", 12ppg is 12ppg per game, it doesn't matter how you slice it, 12ppg is pretty bad if his only job is to score because as we all know he can't play D or rebound.

    By the way I wouldn't mind re-signing him, but as the backup, I think he could be a good option off the bench, but as the starter of a possible championship team in the future? I don't think so.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    xBulletproof David West is not "at the bottom" in scoring at PF by any measure. He's 23rd in points scored by "forwards". That's SF, and PF on NBA.com.
    33 out of 50 in forwards

    http://www.nba.com/statistics/player...xp=-1&splitDD=

    Here is a list of power forwards and their average per game so we can have a better picture:

    Love 26 points

    Aldridge 21.7

    Dirk 21.6

    Blake 20.7

    Lee 20.1

    Andrea B 19.5

    Josh Smith 18.8

    Bosh 18

    Amare 17.5

    Gasol 17.4

    Jamison 17.2

    Milsap 16.6

    Anderson 16.1

    Scola 15.5

    Boozer 15

    Al Harrington 14.2

    Humpries 13.8

    Ersan 13

    Young 12.8

    Dwest 12.8

    Bass 12.5

    Landry 12.5

    Zbo 11.6

    Beasley 11.5

    Brand 11

    Faried 10.2


    Yep he is on the bottom.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    33 out of 50 in forwards

    Yep he is on the bottom.


    That's hilarious. 33 out of 50? You're kidding, right?

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I proposed 2 years in which case he'd be 35 at the end of the contract and I think he'll be at about the same level then which is solid but not an all star level. KG would be another PF playing at a high level in his late 30's but of course West has never been on that level.
    I'd love for us to sign a big name PF but I have no confidence in Walsh doing so after seeing how he spent 10 mil in cap space this summer. If Bird is back we might stand a chance of going after a better player.
    I seriously doubt that West....at his current age...is going to settle for a 2 year contract. My guess is that he will want AT THE VERY LEAST...just like Nash...a 3 year guaranteed contract.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Keeping David West

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    That's hilarious. 33 out of 50? You're kidding, right?
    gosh I hope so

    The ESPN 500 has DWest as the 16th, 17th or 18th best PF. Depending on where you put Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol or Nene. DWest is behind Love, Nowitzki, Griffin, Gasol, Bosh, Aldridge, Garnett, Horford, Josh Smith, Randolph, Ibaka, Stoudemire, Jefferson, Monroe, Ryan Anderson, Nene and Milsap. I'd have him slightly higher, but middle of the pack of the starting PF's in the league seems about right. Putting him at the bottom of the league seems more about hating on a player than an actual analysis of his playing ability.

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