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Thread: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...-another-level

    Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    by Mike Wells



    The Indiana Pacers have taken smash-mouth basketball to another level, with assistant video coordinator Jhared Simpson wearing football shoulder pads in practice during a screening drill.

    Assistant coach Jim Boylen pitched the idea to coach Frank Vogel. Boylen got the drill from Michigan State coach Tom Izzo, whose teams have a blue collar reputation. Boylen also used it when he coached at the University of Utah.

    "It's a reference point type drill," Boylen said. "You want to make the pad click. It gave our guys the freedom to smack somebody without anybody getting hurt. It also gave them a good feel for what a solid screen feels like."

    The objective of the drill was to try to help the Pacers set better screens. They have struggled in that area over the years.

    "That was the idea," Vogel said. "Maybe we'll become a better screening team. One of the differences between the (Miami) Heat and our team during the playoff series last year was that I thought they were a better screening team."
    Hill inducted into Hall of Fame

    Pacers guard George Hill was inducted into the Indianapolis Public Schools Hall of Fame on Thursday. Hill, who starred at Broad Ripple High School, routinely visits IPS schools to encourage kids to excel academically and reach for their dreams.
    Showing some fatigue

    After back-to-back days of two-a-day practices, the Pacers only worked out once Thursday. Vogel said he noticed his players tiring.

    "Guys got a little worn down toward the end of practice. Most of practice was pretty sharp. Guys were playing through it, playing with speed, playing with athleticism, but they tired down," he said.

    The Pacers are treating today like a game day. They will have a shootaround this morning, then return for a scrimmage tonight with two 12-minute halves.
    A Hall of Famer in the building

    Mel Daniels, who was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame last month, is attending practices as a guest of Pacers President Donnie Walsh.

    Daniels spent nearly 30 years in the organization as a player or member of the basketball staff before he was fired as director of player personnel in October 2009.

    Walsh, who left the Pacers for the New York Knicks in 2008 before returning last June, and Daniels have a close relationship. Daniels worked for the Knicks when Walsh was president of the teams.
    Screens? We're going to finally set good, hard, effective screens?

    BillS

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Tyler should have excelled at that drill. This is the third time in a week I have mentioned Tyler's screening. If he learns how to set a screen the way it is meant to be set, then his effectiveness will go up ten fold offensively.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    It was good to read they are going to work on their screening, but the part of the article I liked best was apparently any wounds between Mel Daniels and the Pacers are being healed.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    I really wish all that "smash mouth" crap would die a quick and painless death.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    Tyler should have excelled at that drill. This is the third time in a week I have mentioned Tyler's screening. If he learns how to set a screen the way it is meant to be set, then his effectiveness will go up ten fold offensively.
    Assuming Tyler didn't just spear tackle the guy wearing the pads.
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I really wish all that "smash mouth" crap would die a quick and painless death.
    I like it
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    And here we go with the "smash mouth" crap again

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I really wish all that "smash mouth" crap would die a quick and painless death.
    The most annoying part of the "smash mouth" crap is that fans buy into it so anytime there is a rumor about a player their first request is for that player is to be "smashmouth".
    Last edited by vnzla81; 10-05-2012 at 12:53 PM.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I really wish all that "smash mouth" crap would die a quick and painless death.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The most annoying part of the "smash mouth" crap is that fans buy into it so anytime there is a rumor about a player their first request is for that player is to be "smashmouth".
    Please refrain from name calling. who cares? i like the thought of being a hard-nosed, blue collar, smashmouth basketball team. even if it is all fake (i dont think it is) and just talk. season starts in 24 days? try to keep your panties in a bunch until then.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The most annoying part of the "smash mouth" crap is that fans buy into it so anytime there is a rumor about a player their first request is for that player is to be "smashmouth".
    So is your problem with fans buying into any sort of team identity/philosophy and expecting acquisitions to fit that philosophy or is it specifically "smashmouth" that you have a problem with?

    Because to me, it only seems logical for fans to want the team to acquire players who fit well with the larger philosophy of the team (whether it be smashmouth or run n' gun).

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Gill View Post
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    So is your problem with fans buying into any sort of team identity/philosophy and expecting acquisitions to fit that philosophy or is it specifically "smashmouth" that you have a problem with?

    Because to me, it only seems logical for fans to want the team to acquire players who fit well with the larger philosophy of the team (whether it be smashmouth or run n' gun).
    The "smashmouth" philosophy is a myth, planning and drafting around this fake philosophy is not smart.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The "smashmouth" philosophy is a myth, planning and drafting around this fake philosophy is not smart.
    Please explain.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    You will really hate on anything wont you Vnzla?

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    You will really hate on anything wont you Vnzla?
    Peck is just asking him to explain his comments on why vnzla81 doesn't think that the Team isn't "smashmouth". Nothing wrong there.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The "smashmouth" philosophy is a myth, planning and drafting around this fake philosophy is not smart.
    Seems to me actually working in practice on setting hard picks is putting their money where their mouths are.
    BillS

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Please explain.
    When I think about "smashmouth" I think about the Knicks of the 90's, the Detroit Pistons of the 90's, the Pacers don't have a Rodman, they don't have a Mason, the toughest guy they have on paper and because he is a boxer off the court for the Pacers is David West, how many times have you see him pulling a Rodman?

    Then the next toughest person and the originator of "smashmouth" in Tyler can't even play normal basketball because he has been told that "smashmouth" is great and he should play "smashmouth" at all times, at least that's what I hear from Vogel.

    By a "myth" I mean that with this Pacers personal I don't really see anybody that intimidates anybody, making the "smashmouth" thing just talk, you can talk about "smashmouth" and playing "tough" all you want but when you don't have the personal all that becomes air.

    Lets also not forget that with this new NBA playing "smashmouth" could get players suspended or ejected making the "smashmouth" philosophy a thing of the pass and a myth.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    By the way I understand what Vogel was doing with the "smashmouth" thing when he took over, but now two years later and is still trying to bring this "philosophy"? I think they should try something else.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    When I think about "smashmouth" I think about the Knicks of the 90's, the Detroit Pistons of the 90's, the Pacers don't have a Rodman, they don't have a Mason, the toughest guy they have on paper and because he is a boxer off the court for the Pacers is David West, how many times have you see him pulling a Rodman?

    Then the next toughest person and the originator of "smashmouth" in Tyler can't even play normal basketball because he has been told that "smashmouth" is great and he should play "smashmouth" at all times, at least that's what I hear from Vogel.

    By a "myth" I mean that with this Pacers personal I don't really see anybody that intimidates anybody, making the "smashmouth" thing just talk, you can talk about "smashmouth" and playing "tough" all you want but when you don't have the personal all that becomes air.

    Lets also not forget that with this new NBA playing "smashmouth" could get players suspended or ejected making the "smashmouth" philosophy a thing of the pass and a myth.
    Maybe we're trying to be a modern version "smashmoth" team. Would you disagree that our physicality has been getting under teams skin for a few years?

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Maybe we're trying to be a modern version "smashmoth" team. Would you disagree that our physicality has been getting under teams skin for a few years?
    Yeah, I think we have. I remember how irritated Rose got at Foster during the Bulls series in 2011. I wish Foster could have stayed healthy, if for nothing else than to deliver some hard hits in a playoff series.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Yeah smashmouth has to be redefined. What we consider smashmouth is pretty tame compared to some of the stuff you used to see in the 90s.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    Yeah smashmouth has to be redefined. What we consider smashmouth is pretty tame compared to some of the stuff you used to see in the 90s.
    It's all relative, the overall NBA isn't as tough, just as the Pacers aren't as "smashmout" as the toughest teams in the 90s. In today's NBA we are a pretty hard nosed team.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    I agree, smashmouth should go away. I think David West should become a stretch 4 who trails back and jacks up three pointers. Hell, we saw how McRoberts developed a 3 point shot, maybe Plumlee can do the same?!?


    @Pacers24Colts12

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    I honestly don't see the big deal with the term "smash mouth" or why people have a problem with it. It just seems like a really stupid thing to pick nits about. But that's just me.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    And that's what I understood Vogel to mean when he started the concept of "smashmouth" for the Pacers. Stay with it, give up on no rebound, loose ball or jump ball opportunity. I don' believe he had anky intention of becoming a group of goons or dirty players. Just non stop effort from everybody on the team. JMHO

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Yeah, I think we have. I remember how irritated Rose got at Foster during the Bulls series in 2011. I wish Foster could have stayed healthy, if for nothing else than to deliver some hard hits in a playoff series.
    Kevin Love wasn't too fond of our version of smash mouth either. I also recall we got under Milwaukee's skin pretty good, too.

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