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Thread: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

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    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...-another-level

    Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    by Mike Wells



    The Indiana Pacers have taken smash-mouth basketball to another level, with assistant video coordinator Jhared Simpson wearing football shoulder pads in practice during a screening drill.

    Assistant coach Jim Boylen pitched the idea to coach Frank Vogel. Boylen got the drill from Michigan State coach Tom Izzo, whose teams have a blue collar reputation. Boylen also used it when he coached at the University of Utah.

    "It's a reference point type drill," Boylen said. "You want to make the pad click. It gave our guys the freedom to smack somebody without anybody getting hurt. It also gave them a good feel for what a solid screen feels like."

    The objective of the drill was to try to help the Pacers set better screens. They have struggled in that area over the years.

    "That was the idea," Vogel said. "Maybe we'll become a better screening team. One of the differences between the (Miami) Heat and our team during the playoff series last year was that I thought they were a better screening team."
    Hill inducted into Hall of Fame

    Pacers guard George Hill was inducted into the Indianapolis Public Schools Hall of Fame on Thursday. Hill, who starred at Broad Ripple High School, routinely visits IPS schools to encourage kids to excel academically and reach for their dreams.
    Showing some fatigue

    After back-to-back days of two-a-day practices, the Pacers only worked out once Thursday. Vogel said he noticed his players tiring.

    "Guys got a little worn down toward the end of practice. Most of practice was pretty sharp. Guys were playing through it, playing with speed, playing with athleticism, but they tired down," he said.

    The Pacers are treating today like a game day. They will have a shootaround this morning, then return for a scrimmage tonight with two 12-minute halves.
    A Hall of Famer in the building

    Mel Daniels, who was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame last month, is attending practices as a guest of Pacers President Donnie Walsh.

    Daniels spent nearly 30 years in the organization as a player or member of the basketball staff before he was fired as director of player personnel in October 2009.

    Walsh, who left the Pacers for the New York Knicks in 2008 before returning last June, and Daniels have a close relationship. Daniels worked for the Knicks when Walsh was president of the teams.
    Screens? We're going to finally set good, hard, effective screens?

    BillS

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Tyler should have excelled at that drill. This is the third time in a week I have mentioned Tyler's screening. If he learns how to set a screen the way it is meant to be set, then his effectiveness will go up ten fold offensively.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    It was good to read they are going to work on their screening, but the part of the article I liked best was apparently any wounds between Mel Daniels and the Pacers are being healed.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    Tyler should have excelled at that drill. This is the third time in a week I have mentioned Tyler's screening. If he learns how to set a screen the way it is meant to be set, then his effectiveness will go up ten fold offensively.
    Assuming Tyler didn't just spear tackle the guy wearing the pads.
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

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    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    Tyler should have excelled at that drill. This is the third time in a week I have mentioned Tyler's screening. If he learns how to set a screen the way it is meant to be set, then his effectiveness will go up ten fold offensively.
    Why would somebody who generally really sucks at setting a screen excel in doing so just because he has some pads on? I bet they had to yell at Tyler to quit leaving the screen before the contact is made.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Why would somebody who generally really sucks at setting a screen excel in doing so just because he has some pads on? I bet they had to yell at Tyler to quit leaving the screen before the contact is made.
    So remove the pads and nail his shoes to the floor instead.


    And just to be clear, I love the drill because they have had some terrible offensive spacing issues which makes them underproductive on offense compared to their scoring talent. One reason I liked Josh is that he read shooting screen situations very well and set them cleanly for guys like Dunleavy.

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    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    I really wish all that "smash mouth" crap would die a quick and painless death.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I really wish all that "smash mouth" crap would die a quick and painless death.
    I like it
    If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

    @LetsTalkPacers

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    And here we go with the "smash mouth" crap again

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Do you remember playing pick-up ball as a kid? Sometimes you played against dirty players and just wanted to understandably pop them in the mouth. But other times, you played against guys that were just plain tough. They were masters of gamesmanship. They bellied up to you and made you work for everything. They knew when to give you that little nudge before going up for the rebound or just before that pass was coming to you into the post. You hated playing against them and probably felt like popping them too before the day was done. But not because they played dirty. They were just tough-minded tough-nosed physical players who, more often than not, could make you have to work much harder than you really wanted to work. In short, they could usually impose their will on you.

    That is really what Vogel means by "smash mouth". That's a team that is physically on the edge, but within the rules, that is capable of imposing it's will on the opposition.

    Smash mouth means nothing different today than it did 20 years ago. The only thing that is different are the rules of the game that happen to define it's limits.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    Do you remember playing pick-up ball as a kid? Sometimes you played against dirty players and just wanted to understandably pop them in the mouth. But other times, you played against guys that were just plain tough. They were masters of gamesmanship. They bellied up to you and made you work for everything. They knew when to give you that little nudge before going up for the rebound or just before that pass was coming to you into the post. You hated playing against them and probably felt like popping them too before the day was done. But not because they played dirty. They were just tough-minded tough-nosed physical players who, more often than not, could make you have to work much harder than you really wanted to work. In short, they could usually impose their will on you.

    That is really what Vogel means by "smash mouth". That's a team that is physically on the edge, but within the rules, that is capable of imposing it's will on the opposition.

    Smash mouth means nothing different today than it did 20 years ago. The only thing that is different are the rules of the game that happen to define it's limits.
    This is what I think Vogel means and it's how I take it. I don't mind the use of the phrase or trying to coach the team to be that way. I think, in general, that's how we play. We're going to make the other team work for it, and we've got the muscle to make it work.

    That said, the term is definitely teetering on being overused. It's becoming empty rhetoric, and that's what getting annoying.

    More to the point of the OP -- football pads during practice to work on setting good, hard screens as a direct result of something Coach V noted during the playoffs as a weakness? Yes, please. This is a great bit of coaching, and it's very encouraging to me. We may be returning the same starting five, but it doesn't mean we're content with how we played.
    BLUE COLLAR GOLD SWAGGER

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I really wish all that "smash mouth" crap would die a quick and painless death.
    The most annoying part of the "smash mouth" crap is that fans buy into it so anytime there is a rumor about a player their first request is for that player is to be "smashmouth".
    Last edited by vnzla81; 10-05-2012 at 12:53 PM.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I really wish all that "smash mouth" crap would die a quick and painless death.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The most annoying part of the "smash mouth" crap is that fans buy into it so anytime there is a rumor about a player their first request is for that player is to be "smashmouth".
    Please refrain from name calling. who cares? i like the thought of being a hard-nosed, blue collar, smashmouth basketball team. even if it is all fake (i dont think it is) and just talk. season starts in 24 days? try to keep your panties in a bunch until then.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The most annoying part of the "smash mouth" crap is that fans buy into it so anytime there is a rumor about a player their first request is for that player is to be "smashmouth".
    So is your problem with fans buying into any sort of team identity/philosophy and expecting acquisitions to fit that philosophy or is it specifically "smashmouth" that you have a problem with?

    Because to me, it only seems logical for fans to want the team to acquire players who fit well with the larger philosophy of the team (whether it be smashmouth or run n' gun).

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Gill View Post
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    So is your problem with fans buying into any sort of team identity/philosophy and expecting acquisitions to fit that philosophy or is it specifically "smashmouth" that you have a problem with?

    Because to me, it only seems logical for fans to want the team to acquire players who fit well with the larger philosophy of the team (whether it be smashmouth or run n' gun).
    The "smashmouth" philosophy is a myth, planning and drafting around this fake philosophy is not smart.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The "smashmouth" philosophy is a myth, planning and drafting around this fake philosophy is not smart.
    Please explain.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The "smashmouth" philosophy is a myth, planning and drafting around this fake philosophy is not smart.
    Seems to me actually working in practice on setting hard picks is putting their money where their mouths are.
    BillS

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    You will really hate on anything wont you Vnzla?

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    You will really hate on anything wont you Vnzla?
    Peck is just asking him to explain his comments on why vnzla81 doesn't think that the Team isn't "smashmouth". Nothing wrong there.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Yeah smashmouth has to be redefined. What we consider smashmouth is pretty tame compared to some of the stuff you used to see in the 90s.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    Yeah smashmouth has to be redefined. What we consider smashmouth is pretty tame compared to some of the stuff you used to see in the 90s.
    It's all relative, the overall NBA isn't as tough, just as the Pacers aren't as "smashmout" as the toughest teams in the 90s. In today's NBA we are a pretty hard nosed team.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    I agree, smashmouth should go away. I think David West should become a stretch 4 who trails back and jacks up three pointers. Hell, we saw how McRoberts developed a 3 point shot, maybe Plumlee can do the same?!?


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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    I honestly don't see the big deal with the term "smash mouth" or why people have a problem with it. It just seems like a really stupid thing to pick nits about. But that's just me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    And I think David West is plenty tough enough. I wouldn't cross him.
    I'm gonna go on record as saying I wouldn't cross any professional athlete ever.

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    Default Re: IndyStar: Pacers take smash-mouth basketball to another level

    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Gill View Post
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    I'm gonna go on record as saying I wouldn't cross any professional athlete ever.
    Yeah, and David West is near the top of that list.

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