Find me on the internets @mattiecolin
I guess I'm not a big fan of Josh Smith. I don't think he was snubbed last year, I think he was a marginal all star like several others.
This year, as long as Al Horford is fully healthy, he should be the 2nd best post player on his own team. And if Horford isn't fully back, that team won't be good. So I don't see him as a major threat.
I'm more worried about Deng, he'll have a big role on a team that should still make the playoffs.
Everything said... Best teams get rewarded with all star slots. I think it will be easiest to reward Danny this year, the same way it was easiest to reward Hibbert last year, even though he didn't deserve it over Tyson Chandler and KG.
Josh Smith is pretty damn good, I get that many here hate his attitude but he averages 18.8 and 9.6 plays great D and can block shots too.
i don't care about attitude, it's his game I don't like. Obviously, you take attitude/leadership into consideration when building a team, but a good player is a good player.
But he takes way too many bad shots for me to consider him a clear All Star. A marginal All Star, sure.
The sad thing is that he keeps adding to his game every year. He works, he gets more versatile. Now he can even play some 5. But at the same time, he keeps taking more and more bad shots. I liked him 2 years ago more. He wasn't able to play 5, but he attacked the basket more.
Fact is the numbers were nearly identical last year between Iggy and Deng. Deng actually held players to lower shooting percentages than Iggy, and the Bulls held opponents to the lowest fg% and ppg in the league so it's not crazy to see why Deng ended up with 1 more vote for the all defensive team (20-19).
That said I'd still take Iggy over Deng if I need 1 stop to end a game.
edit: what i can't explain is the Boozer vote. That must have been some kind of inside joke
I think Deng deserved to be on the All Defense team, but Iguodala should've gotten Kobe or Ibaka's spot IMO.
re Deng-Ibaka, I'd probably take Deng on Melo, Kobe or Paul Pierce, someone big, great individually and with a solid post up game. But if I have to defend a smaller guy, and especially a playmaker (Wade, Harden, Rose) it's Iggy.
But tbh, you are fine just tossing a coin defensively, their offense is the difference. Do you want someone who will stretch the floor, or a far better creator.
I forgot there were people who actually wanted Nene. Lol.
I really disagree about Hill having a better shot at the ASG than Paul though. Hill is underrated here, and a very good combo guard, but George has more hype and momentum as a potential rising star, which shapes the perception of the player, and he simply has more raw talent. The fact that he's starting as the "2 guard" while Hill is starting as a 1 hurts Hill's shot too. Even though I look at Hill as just a "guard" he'll likely be competing with other point guards meaning he'd need to compete with
D. Rose (if he comes back in time)
Each of whom are significantly better than Hill
Also at least
J. Wall (though I expect a leap from Wall playing with some serious players like Okafor and Nene for a whole season to group 1)
Are comparably good and will probably have a larger role on their respective teams.
Paul though, competing against 2 guards, you've got-
A. Afflalo (underrated, will get lots of shots on a terrible Orlando team and will get a look at the ASG if they are miraculously even just bad instead of terrible)
Is any other 2 guard head and shoulders better than PG in the East, especially if PG makes even a moderate leap next year?
I think the Pacers will get off to a very fast start (even you admit they are a very good regular season team, and have great chemistry), and will have at least 2 guys in the game, heck, we probably would have had 2 last year if Granger didn't lay an egg for the first quarter+ of the season.
His biggest comp will probably actually be Granger, since I don't see us with 3 All Stars.
If Granger recovers and is playing at anywhere close to his 2nd half of the season form, or really even the level of the 2 years before last (19-21 ppg 5-6 rpg on 43-45% from the field, 38-40% from 3) I see us getting Roy (14-15 ppg 9-10 rpg on 50% I don't think is unreasonable to expect from him since he was 13-9 last year and tends to improve each year and is still young) and Danny. If Danny is playing more like a 18 ppg 41-42% guy I think Paul has a great chance at the game if he is putting 14-15 ppg 6-7 rpg 2-3 apg 1 bpg 2-2.5 spg on his usual percentages while cementing his rep as a defensive stopper on one of the better teams in the conference.
We all know that PG has All-Star talent, I don't think him making the game next year is as pie in the sky as some think. Granger's 3rd year was the year he "made the leap" and PG is also a hard worker and is far more talented than Granger ever was, on both sides of the ball.
Our talent is pretty underrated, especially by those looking just at stats, afterall what other team ran such a balanced offense other than Memphis and Denver in the NBA?
You can argue that we have
Arguably the 2nd best center in the conference (opinions will vary, but Roy is comparable to Chandler, Noah, Lopez some put him at the top some put him below, the coaches put him above them all last season.) Bynum for now, is clearly the best as long as he is healthy of course.
Arguably the 3rd best Small forward in the conference (After LBJ/Melo he and Deng and Current Pierce are a crapshoot)
Arguably the 3rd best Shooting Guard in the conference ( I don't think it is crazy to say it gets muddy after Wade and J. Johnson)
I'm interested to see how West is with a full year between his rehab too, because the West that was with New Orleans would be a top 5 power forward in the conference pretty easily too, his 21-8 on 50% and great from the line years compare well to most of the 4 men in the East as well, though on this team he won't put up those numbers, he isn't far removed from some very, very good years with CP3 in New Orleans, he wasn't a 2 time all-star against the stacked big men in the West for nothing after all.
We need PG to make a leap to where he is inarguably the 2nd best 2 guard, who can at least contain Wade to really make the leap, but as a supporting cast for such a player we're pretty elite.
If we're on pace for a big season the coaches will give us at least 1 all-star, it's pretty much how it works, coaches reward players from winning teams, it is very tough to make it otherwise unless you're an anomaly like D-Will who is juts clearly a great player in a crap situation.
Last edited by daschysta; 10-08-2012 at 04:06 PM.
but voters vote for "guard", "forward" and "center". Then there are two position-less spots. And injury selections.
So Paul George isn't just competing with Afflalo, he's also competing with Rondo, Irving, etc.
Technically that is how it is, but in practice they tend to conform to positions except in cases wherein there aren't alternatives Joe Johnson is a, what 6 time all-star (not that he didn't deserve it some years, but in years where he was putting up 21 ppg on less than 53-54 TS% in more than 39 minutes per game, which covers basically the last 4 times he made the team you can bet he got a boost from the 2 guard position being weak behind Wade instead of the 3, or the 1). Jameer Nelson made the All-star game one year largely due to his position and team etc... It still matters, it's just they won't stick to it so closely that it means snubbing someone who is clearly superior. In the case of 2 comparable players though having less competition at the position can make a difference.
Paul George putting up 14-16 ppg 6-7 rpg 2-3 apg with 2 or so steals per game while maintaining his reputation as a defensive stud on a strong team will certainly benefit from playing the 2 guard, instead of the 3, for example and would have a very compelling case for the All-Star game when it comes down to the coaches vote. Ditto to Roy Hibbert and Danny Granger.
I also don't get the assertion that Roy didn't deserve his spot last year over Chandler, remember at the time of the All-Star game Roy Hibbert was averaging
.512 from the field in 30.8 mpg (16.4 ppg 11.44 rpg 1.98 bpg per 36 minutes) on one of the conferences top teams.
Whereas at the same point Chandler was averaging
on .703 from the field in 33.5 mpg ( 12.5 ppg 10.2 rpg 1.4 bpg per 36 minutes) on a team that was massively underperforming and was out of the playoff picture)
Hibbert was more productive in less minutes on a better team scoring more, blocking more and rebounding more even in terms of raw numbers in 3 less minutes per game. I don't see the how Roy didn't earn it over Chandler on his own merits, it wasn't a pity vote, or just a team accomplishment vote, he had a very strong case based on his merits. Chandler is the better defensive player, but Roy is a good defender too, and Roy is infinitely more valuable offensively, since you can actually run an offense through him, as opposed to Chandler who has no post game other than put backs or dunks gift wrapped from pick and roll action.
Last edited by daschysta; 10-08-2012 at 05:20 PM.
Joe Johnson is a good player and was a top 5 guard in the conference for many years.
Curveball - Gerald Green makes the AS team instead.
How? Good numbers paired with highlight dunks to get attention. The good enough numbers seem very unlikely of course, but since we are wildly speculating about the quality of every Eastern player next season before games are even being played...
Danny's knee's worse than we think, misses the first half of the year. PG slides to the 3, Green plays 34 minutes a night at the 2...
Pacers Digest servers crash under the weight of DANNY'S HOLDING US BACK threads...
I think that I would have a conniption fit. Not because of GG, that would be awesome, but because of anti-danny threads.
To be fair it would be amazing for the team if GG really broke out and we could trade Danny+ other parts for a star point all while saving tons of cash on GG's steal of a contract, but the idea that Danny is somehow holding us back is both asinine and pervasive in this forum. Danny has his limits, but he and PG can absolutely play together. It isn't a coincidence that our starting 5 was so statistically dominant, and that Danny was by far our best player in terms of on/off. Even when he wasn't playing well in the Miami series people should be able to get the point when looking at how badly we got creamed when Danny left game 5 with his injury...
I think GG could open some eyes for sure though, kid has serious skills and was seen as a guy with star talent at one point, when he's on he can be so deadly.
Also, for those only interested in numbers, 82games.com provides some numbers comparing the two players in question.
If you scroll down, Iggy held opponents to an effective FG% of .404. Deng held opponents to an effective FG% of .456.
Everything else should have been in the form of a p.m., thank you
Last edited by mattie; 10-09-2012 at 12:59 AM.
Find me on the internets @mattiecolin
edit: come on now mods... if you're gonna tamper with my posts you can at least give me a reason why
FWIW mattie, i never called you a "jackass". That was your word describing NBA coaches. I just simply asked a question and left it up to the readers to decide.
Last edited by CJ Jones; 10-09-2012 at 01:48 PM.
82games assume that if you play at SF, your counterpart is the opposing SF, which isn't really true in case of stoppers who defend multiple positions. Deng did it, but especially Iggy did it, he defended the best 1-2-3.
It's a shame that the voting system lacks flexibility so much. They should've given the SG spot to Iggy, and SF to Deng.
Looks like we can put to rest the idea Paul's not strong enough to guard SFs in the league. As well as Danny's stats say he played last year the coach still recognizes Paul's our best option.Vogel doesn't believe Young to be the team's best small forward defender. Paul George, who is longer, quicker and younger, gets that nod. Danny Granger will get opportunities as well
Sam Young is by far the young-est player on this roster.Vogel doesn't believe Young to be the team's best small forward defender. Paul George, who is longer, quicker and younger, gets that nod. Danny Granger will get opportunities as well
I think I'd still put Granger on LeBron or Paul Pierce types, strong/skilled guys who like to post up. But it depends on what George has done over the summer.
I agree about Danny's post D, but post play is nearly non existent these days for wing players. In nearly 80 games both Paul and Danny were posted up less then 1 time per game, and if you go back and watch them half of those are basically just post isos where the guy receives the ball in the mid post area then faces up to make his move. There were very few legit post plays where the offensive player overpowered Danny or Paul. Being able to defend in space and having the speed and quickness to play help D and still get back to your man (Danny's main weakness) is much more important for a wing then post D IMO.