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Thread: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

  1. #51
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    By looking at the whole team George Hill is the one that looks to me like the one player with the better chance to be an all star, Rondo and Dwill are in for sure but after that who? if Hill has some good numbers and the Pacers have a good record George Hill could probably make it.
    It's guards not points, as was mentioned earlier, so if any guard on the Pacers is going to make it next season it would be Paul.
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  2. #52

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    I guess I'm not a big fan of Josh Smith. I don't think he was snubbed last year, I think he was a marginal all star like several others.
    This year, as long as Al Horford is fully healthy, he should be the 2nd best post player on his own team. And if Horford isn't fully back, that team won't be good. So I don't see him as a major threat.

    I'm more worried about Deng, he'll have a big role on a team that should still make the playoffs.

    Everything said... Best teams get rewarded with all star slots. I think it will be easiest to reward Danny this year, the same way it was easiest to reward Hibbert last year, even though he didn't deserve it over Tyson Chandler and KG.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Josh Smith is pretty damn good, I get that many here hate his attitude but he averages 18.8 and 9.6 plays great D and can block shots too.

  4. #54

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    i don't care about attitude, it's his game I don't like. Obviously, you take attitude/leadership into consideration when building a team, but a good player is a good player.
    But he takes way too many bad shots for me to consider him a clear All Star. A marginal All Star, sure.
    The sad thing is that he keeps adding to his game every year. He works, he gets more versatile. Now he can even play some 5. But at the same time, he keeps taking more and more bad shots. I liked him 2 years ago more. He wasn't able to play 5, but he attacked the basket more.

  5. #55

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    That's going to be a tough sell too. Despite being the worst out of all 4, Deng is the current hipster pick favorite among coaches (those jackasses voted for him over Iggy all defense last season lol), Smith is the best out of all 4 and got snubbed last year, so he may be due for some makeup votes, and Pierce always has the tenured vote going for him.
    Lol, who's the jackass? The guy that pushes a couple buttons on his computer to form his opinions or the the guy who spent nearly his whole life studying the game and earning his way to the top of his profession?

    Fact is the numbers were nearly identical last year between Iggy and Deng. Deng actually held players to lower shooting percentages than Iggy, and the Bulls held opponents to the lowest fg% and ppg in the league so it's not crazy to see why Deng ended up with 1 more vote for the all defensive team (20-19).

    That said I'd still take Iggy over Deng if I need 1 stop to end a game.

    edit: what i can't explain is the Boozer vote. That must have been some kind of inside joke

  6. #56

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    I think Deng deserved to be on the All Defense team, but Iguodala should've gotten Kobe or Ibaka's spot IMO.

    re Deng-Ibaka, I'd probably take Deng on Melo, Kobe or Paul Pierce, someone big, great individually and with a solid post up game. But if I have to defend a smaller guy, and especially a playmaker (Wade, Harden, Rose) it's Iggy.
    But tbh, you are fine just tossing a coin defensively, their offense is the difference. Do you want someone who will stretch the floor, or a far better creator.

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  8. #57

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    I forgot there were people who actually wanted Nene. Lol.

  9. #58
    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Josh Smith is pretty damn good, I get that many here hate his attitude but he averages 18.8 and 9.6 plays great D and can block shots too.
    Agreed, Smith is an absolute handful, and could be one of the top players in the entire league if he played with a little more discipline and didn't fall in love with his jumpshot, which is more streaky than he treats it (not that it isn't devastating when it's going in, like in our last game vs. them)

    I really disagree about Hill having a better shot at the ASG than Paul though. Hill is underrated here, and a very good combo guard, but George has more hype and momentum as a potential rising star, which shapes the perception of the player, and he simply has more raw talent. The fact that he's starting as the "2 guard" while Hill is starting as a 1 hurts Hill's shot too. Even though I look at Hill as just a "guard" he'll likely be competing with other point guards meaning he'd need to compete with

    D Williams
    R Rondo
    D. Rose (if he comes back in time)
    K Irving


    Each of whom are significantly better than Hill

    Also at least

    J. Teague
    J. Holiday
    B. Jennings
    J. Wall (though I expect a leap from Wall playing with some serious players like Okafor and Nene for a whole season to group 1)

    Are comparably good and will probably have a larger role on their respective teams.

    Paul though, competing against 2 guards, you've got-

    D. Wade
    J. Johnson
    A. Afflalo (underrated, will get lots of shots on a terrible Orlando team and will get a look at the ASG if they are miraculously even just bad instead of terrible)

    Is any other 2 guard head and shoulders better than PG in the East, especially if PG makes even a moderate leap next year?

    I think the Pacers will get off to a very fast start (even you admit they are a very good regular season team, and have great chemistry), and will have at least 2 guys in the game, heck, we probably would have had 2 last year if Granger didn't lay an egg for the first quarter+ of the season.

    His biggest comp will probably actually be Granger, since I don't see us with 3 All Stars.

    If Granger recovers and is playing at anywhere close to his 2nd half of the season form, or really even the level of the 2 years before last (19-21 ppg 5-6 rpg on 43-45% from the field, 38-40% from 3) I see us getting Roy (14-15 ppg 9-10 rpg on 50% I don't think is unreasonable to expect from him since he was 13-9 last year and tends to improve each year and is still young) and Danny. If Danny is playing more like a 18 ppg 41-42% guy I think Paul has a great chance at the game if he is putting 14-15 ppg 6-7 rpg 2-3 apg 1 bpg 2-2.5 spg on his usual percentages while cementing his rep as a defensive stopper on one of the better teams in the conference.

    We all know that PG has All-Star talent, I don't think him making the game next year is as pie in the sky as some think. Granger's 3rd year was the year he "made the leap" and PG is also a hard worker and is far more talented than Granger ever was, on both sides of the ball.

    Our talent is pretty underrated, especially by those looking just at stats, afterall what other team ran such a balanced offense other than Memphis and Denver in the NBA?

    You can argue that we have

    Arguably the 2nd best center in the conference (opinions will vary, but Roy is comparable to Chandler, Noah, Lopez some put him at the top some put him below, the coaches put him above them all last season.) Bynum for now, is clearly the best as long as he is healthy of course.

    Arguably the 3rd best Small forward in the conference (After LBJ/Melo he and Deng and Current Pierce are a crapshoot)

    Arguably the 3rd best Shooting Guard in the conference ( I don't think it is crazy to say it gets muddy after Wade and J. Johnson)

    I'm interested to see how West is with a full year between his rehab too, because the West that was with New Orleans would be a top 5 power forward in the conference pretty easily too, his 21-8 on 50% and great from the line years compare well to most of the 4 men in the East as well, though on this team he won't put up those numbers, he isn't far removed from some very, very good years with CP3 in New Orleans, he wasn't a 2 time all-star against the stacked big men in the West for nothing after all.

    We need PG to make a leap to where he is inarguably the 2nd best 2 guard, who can at least contain Wade to really make the leap, but as a supporting cast for such a player we're pretty elite.

    If we're on pace for a big season the coaches will give us at least 1 all-star, it's pretty much how it works, coaches reward players from winning teams, it is very tough to make it otherwise unless you're an anomaly like D-Will who is juts clearly a great player in a crap situation.
    Last edited by daschysta; 10-08-2012 at 04:06 PM.

  10. #59
    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Quote Originally Posted by Steagles View Post
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    Hes not a superstar or teammate of. The all star game might as well be Celtics/Heat/Nets/Bulls stars vs LAC/LAL/OKC/SAS stars and Dirk every year.
    Don't forget the Knicks, Melo is going to be in every year too, and Boston doesn't have a player that will win the fan vote any more. I doubt a Pacer is going to win the fan vote of course, unless they knock Miami out of the playoffs or something, but Roy has a decent national presence.

  11. #60

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    but voters vote for "guard", "forward" and "center". Then there are two position-less spots. And injury selections.
    So Paul George isn't just competing with Afflalo, he's also competing with Rondo, Irving, etc.

  12. #61
    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Technically that is how it is, but in practice they tend to conform to positions except in cases wherein there aren't alternatives Joe Johnson is a, what 6 time all-star (not that he didn't deserve it some years, but in years where he was putting up 21 ppg on less than 53-54 TS% in more than 39 minutes per game, which covers basically the last 4 times he made the team you can bet he got a boost from the 2 guard position being weak behind Wade instead of the 3, or the 1). Jameer Nelson made the All-star game one year largely due to his position and team etc... It still matters, it's just they won't stick to it so closely that it means snubbing someone who is clearly superior. In the case of 2 comparable players though having less competition at the position can make a difference.

    Paul George putting up 14-16 ppg 6-7 rpg 2-3 apg with 2 or so steals per game while maintaining his reputation as a defensive stud on a strong team will certainly benefit from playing the 2 guard, instead of the 3, for example and would have a very compelling case for the All-Star game when it comes down to the coaches vote. Ditto to Roy Hibbert and Danny Granger.

    I also don't get the assertion that Roy didn't deserve his spot last year over Chandler, remember at the time of the All-Star game Roy Hibbert was averaging

    13.8 ppg
    9.6 rpg
    1.7 bpg

    .512 from the field in 30.8 mpg (16.4 ppg 11.44 rpg 1.98 bpg per 36 minutes) on one of the conferences top teams.

    Whereas at the same point Chandler was averaging

    11.7 ppg
    9.5 rpg
    1.3 bpg

    on .703 from the field in 33.5 mpg ( 12.5 ppg 10.2 rpg 1.4 bpg per 36 minutes) on a team that was massively underperforming and was out of the playoff picture)

    Hibbert was more productive in less minutes on a better team scoring more, blocking more and rebounding more even in terms of raw numbers in 3 less minutes per game. I don't see the how Roy didn't earn it over Chandler on his own merits, it wasn't a pity vote, or just a team accomplishment vote, he had a very strong case based on his merits. Chandler is the better defensive player, but Roy is a good defender too, and Roy is infinitely more valuable offensively, since you can actually run an offense through him, as opposed to Chandler who has no post game other than put backs or dunks gift wrapped from pick and roll action.
    Last edited by daschysta; 10-08-2012 at 05:20 PM.

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  14. #62

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Joe Johnson is a good player and was a top 5 guard in the conference for many years.

  15. #63
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Curveball - Gerald Green makes the AS team instead.

    Mind blown.

    How? Good numbers paired with highlight dunks to get attention. The good enough numbers seem very unlikely of course, but since we are wildly speculating about the quality of every Eastern player next season before games are even being played...

  16. #64
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Curveball - Gerald Green makes the AS team instead.

    Mind blown.

    How? Good numbers paired with highlight dunks to get attention. The good enough numbers seem very unlikely of course, but since we are wildly speculating about the quality of every Eastern player next season before games are even being played...
    Danny's knee's worse than we think, misses the first half of the year. PG slides to the 3, Green plays 34 minutes a night at the 2...

    Pacers Digest servers crash under the weight of DANNY'S HOLDING US BACK threads...

  17. #65
    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Danny's knee's worse than we think, misses the first half of the year. PG slides to the 3, Green plays 34 minutes a night at the 2...

    Pacers Digest servers crash under the weight of DANNY'S HOLDING US BACK threads...
    I think that I would have a conniption fit. Not because of GG, that would be awesome, but because of anti-danny threads.

    To be fair it would be amazing for the team if GG really broke out and we could trade Danny+ other parts for a star point all while saving tons of cash on GG's steal of a contract, but the idea that Danny is somehow holding us back is both asinine and pervasive in this forum. Danny has his limits, but he and PG can absolutely play together. It isn't a coincidence that our starting 5 was so statistically dominant, and that Danny was by far our best player in terms of on/off. Even when he wasn't playing well in the Miami series people should be able to get the point when looking at how badly we got creamed when Danny left game 5 with his injury...

    I think GG could open some eyes for sure though, kid has serious skills and was seen as a guy with star talent at one point, when he's on he can be so deadly.


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  19. #66
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Also, for those only interested in numbers, 82games.com provides some numbers comparing the two players in question.

    http://www.82games.com/1112/11PHI7.HTM
    http://www.82games.com/1112/11CHI9.HTM

    If you scroll down, Iggy held opponents to an effective FG% of .404. Deng held opponents to an effective FG% of .456.

    Everything else should have been in the form of a p.m., thank you
    Last edited by mattie; 10-09-2012 at 12:59 AM.
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  20. #67

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Really?

    http://mySynergySports.com...

    edit: come on now mods... if you're gonna tamper with my posts you can at least give me a reason why

    FWIW mattie, i never called you a "jackass". That was your word describing NBA coaches. I just simply asked a question and left it up to the readers to decide.
    Last edited by CJ Jones; 10-09-2012 at 01:48 PM.

  21. #68

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    I think Deng deserved to be on the All Defense team, but Iguodala should've gotten Kobe or Ibaka's spot IMO.

    re Deng-Ibaka, I'd probably take Deng on Melo, Kobe or Paul Pierce, someone big, great individually and with a solid post up game. But if I have to defend a smaller guy, and especially a playmaker (Wade, Harden, Rose) it's Iggy.
    But tbh, you are fine just tossing a coin defensively, their offense is the difference. Do you want someone who will stretch the floor, or a far better creator.
    Yeah I think they both deserved it, there just wasn't enough room for both. The only reason I take Iggy over Deng is his ability to turn you over. You can't go wrong with either one though.

  22. #69

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    82games assume that if you play at SF, your counterpart is the opposing SF, which isn't really true in case of stoppers who defend multiple positions. Deng did it, but especially Iggy did it, he defended the best 1-2-3.

  23. #70

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    Yeah I think they both deserved it, there just wasn't enough room for both. The only reason I take Iggy over Deng is his ability to turn you over. You can't go wrong with either one though.
    well, i looked at the votes yesterday when you guys started discussing it, and Kobe had several votes less than Iggy - but Iggy didn't get the spot because he's a "forward". Although in real life, he's as much a SG as he is a forward, and he'll play mostly SG this year.
    It's a shame that the voting system lacks flexibility so much. They should've given the SG spot to Iggy, and SF to Deng.

  24. #71

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    82games assume that if you play at SF, your counterpart is the opposing SF, which isn't really true in case of stoppers who defend multiple positions. Deng did it, but especially Iggy did it, he defended the best 1-2-3.
    I tend to agree with this, although fans of the site and I'm pretty sure the site itself claim they watch every play, but I have my doubts. Synergy's my stat website of choice.

  25. #72

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    I tend to agree with this, although fans of the site and I'm pretty sure the site itself claim they watch every play, but I have my doubts. Synergy's my stat website of choice.
    i don't know about fans, but the site is very open about it, it's written on the site somewhere.

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  27. #73

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/sam-y...-prove-himself
    Vogel doesn't believe Young to be the team's best small forward defender. Paul George, who is longer, quicker and younger, gets that nod. Danny Granger will get opportunities as well
    Looks like we can put to rest the idea Paul's not strong enough to guard SFs in the league. As well as Danny's stats say he played last year the coach still recognizes Paul's our best option.

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  29. #74

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Vogel doesn't believe Young to be the team's best small forward defender. Paul George, who is longer, quicker and younger, gets that nod. Danny Granger will get opportunities as well
    Sam Young is by far the young-est player on this roster.

    I think I'd still put Granger on LeBron or Paul Pierce types, strong/skilled guys who like to post up. But it depends on what George has done over the summer.

  30. #75

    Default Re: Paul George "I want to be an All-Star"

    Quote Originally Posted by hackashaq View Post
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    Sam Young is by far the young-est player on this roster.

    I think I'd still put Granger on LeBron or Paul Pierce types, strong/skilled guys who like to post up. But it depends on what George has done over the summer.
    Sam's 27

    I agree about Danny's post D, but post play is nearly non existent these days for wing players. In nearly 80 games both Paul and Danny were posted up less then 1 time per game, and if you go back and watch them half of those are basically just post isos where the guy receives the ball in the mid post area then faces up to make his move. There were very few legit post plays where the offensive player overpowered Danny or Paul. Being able to defend in space and having the speed and quickness to play help D and still get back to your man (Danny's main weakness) is much more important for a wing then post D IMO.

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