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Thread: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

  1. #26
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Seriously, as fans this is Not Our Problem because it means DJ is a good enough distributing PG to start.
    Eh, it means at the end of the season we have no DJ and a really expensive backup.

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Eh, it means at the end of the season we have no DJ and a really expensive backup.
    ???

    Do you mean NEXT season or do you mean DJ would demand a trade? And, in either case, Hill would be back to starting.

    There seems to be this idea that "starter/bench" is some hard and absolute line and no player can be anything other than one or the other. A starter for one team could be nothing more than a serviceable backup on the other based on the style of play and the other players on the floor.
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    It depends on how the returning starters execute offensively. If they struggle as much as they did sometimes last year, then he could at least become a finisher, if not a starter. But if Hill does show improvement and/or the others get better at working the ball around with one another, then I'd just stick with those in place. Something interesting to look for.

  5. #29
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    ???

    Do you mean NEXT season or do you mean DJ would demand a trade? And, in either case, Hill would be back to starting.
    At the end of this season. DJ only signed for one year.

    There seems to be this idea that "starter/bench" is some hard and absolute line and no player can be anything other than one or the other. A starter for one team could be nothing more than a serviceable backup on the other based on the style of play and the other players on the floor.
    Not at all. While I'm excited to have DJ, it is not a good thing that your 8 mill a year guy can't beat him out for starting PG. I'm not saying Hill wouldn't slide back into his role as a starter, but I would be concerned spending that much on a guy who isn't better than DJ.

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So DC was brought here specifically because he would be good at running JOB's system? That isn't true. As soon as we acquired him I remember posting that JOB was going to have to change the offense or DC wasn't going to be successful. I mean it doesn't matter now, but DC was never JOB's type of point guard that fit best in his system.

    Sorry, but for the record I wasn't the one who first brought up JOB in this thread.

    While it is technically true that Collison was injured and while he was unable to play George Hill came in a took the starting job away from him, but really it was rather obvious that the team was much better with Hill as the starter. So whether he was replaced while injured or a little later, it was going to happen . I would argue if Hill hadn't missed a good chunk of the middle part of the season with his own injuries he would have replaced DC 30 games earlier
    That was my prediction.

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Unless Paul George improves, DJ closing games means Hill finishes at the two.

    (or Granger moves to power forward and either Hibbs or West sits.)
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Don't see Augustin closing games unless we are going for a last second shot. He can't play the D.

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I'm not sure really, but if Augustin ends up being as good of a distributor as people are making him out to be doesn't it kind of make sense to have him play with the starters? Especially West?
    Because of age and other related issues, I think it means that Granger is moved if they can get good value out of him. I think a potent DJ, means that GH moves to the 2, and PG moves to the 3.

    If DJ can feed West and Hibbert as effectively as I can imagine he might be able to, we could be really dangerous. I think PG and GH defense could cover up DJ's weaknesses here.

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Not at all. While I'm excited to have DJ, it is not a good thing that your 8 mill a year guy can't beat him out for starting PG. I'm not saying Hill wouldn't slide back into his role as a starter, but I would be concerned spending that much on a guy who isn't better than DJ.
    As I've said in another place, Hill is a combo guard. The chances are that if he isn't better than DJ at PG, is he better than Paul at SG? If Paul improves in a way obvious to the rest of the league, being second to him at $8M - particularly a few years from now since it is a flat contract - won't seem bad at all and certainly won't make GH untradeable.

    I think you write contracts based on what you have right now, and if DJ improves by some huge amount because he's playing for a real team instead of a bottom feeder, he could be a steal as opposed to Hill being not worth his contract.
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    As I've said in another place, Hill is a combo guard. The chances are that if he isn't better than DJ at PG, is he better than Paul at SG? If Paul improves in a way obvious to the rest of the league, being second to him at $8M - particularly a few years from now since it is a flat contract - won't seem bad at all and certainly won't make GH untradeable.

    I think you write contracts based on what you have right now, and if DJ improves by some huge amount because he's playing for a real team instead of a bottom feeder, he could be a steal as opposed to Hill being not worth his contract.
    I just don't think DJ is the all around player on both ends that Hill is. While's DJ's play making ability is greater than Hill's, if that is enough to overtake the starting spot I would be concerned with Hill's growth as a player and our investment.

    In other words, to go back to your original comment saying who starts isn't a concern as fans, I think the best thing for us fans is for the guy who is locked in for five years to prove he is a starter over the guy only here for one year.

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    As far as DJ playing with the starters goes, people are forgetting the possibility of small ball lineups. Don't be surprised to see lineups featuring Augustin at the 1 with Hill at the 2, possibly Granger at the 4.

    I expect to see DJ as our most important backup along with Green and Mahimni (sp?). I'm hoping we run primarily this 8 man rotation, with a lot of mixed/mashed lineups as opposed to anything close to the hockey line substitutions of last season.
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    In other words, to go back to your original comment saying who starts isn't a concern as fans, I think the best thing for us fans is for the guy who is locked in for five years to prove he is a starter over the guy only here for one year.
    Not quite what I meant (I meant that if the guy penciled in as the bench turns out to be better than the current starter without the current starter getting worse that's not a concern), but I get your point.

    Bottom line for me is that ultimately I don't care what guys are paid. I want to see a fight for every position that brings the absolute best out of every player, and if the guy making less turns out to be better than the guy making more, so be it. I don't think Hill's contract is such that if we really needed to send him somewhere to make room for a better player at 1 and 2 we could not do so.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    As far as DJ playing with the starters goes, people are forgetting the possibility of small ball lineups. Don't be surprised to see lineups featuring Augustin at the 1 with Hill at the 2, possibly Granger at the 4.

    I expect to see DJ as our most important backup along with Green and Mahimni (sp?). I'm hoping we run primarily this 8 man rotation, with a lot of mixed/mashed lineups as opposed to anything close to the hockey line substitutions of last season.
    There is all kinds of flexibility throughout the game. Even who starts isn't that big a deal (see Terry, Ginobli, etc.). The possible logjam discussion is all about who finishes.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  19. #39
    billbradley
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Above all, I hope DJ makes Tyler a quality backup. Is that possible?

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    Above all, I hope DJ makes Tyler a quality backup. Is that possible?
    If he can feed him near the rim, limiting Tyler's opportunity to isolate from 15 feet away.

  21. #41
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    This is the exact reason why I have been clamoring for Granger to develop a low post game FOR YEARS NOW! It drives me absolutely f-ing crazy, that DG hasn't show a willingness to play ball within the three point line. He has that little mid-range pull up jumper which is perfect playing the four. If he could post, we would have better roster options, but you absolutely cannot afford to play Danny at PF if we have four players on the perimeter offensively.

    DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!!
    Danny posted up a lot last year. Did you not see it?
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Danny posted up a lot last year. Did you not see it?
    My thought also. Danny did post a lot. in that weird Danny way of course. Never shoved the defender under the basket to make a layup, but just shoved him back far enough to take that little mid-range jumper. Personally I think Danny is allergic to the orange paint on the rim. He never finishes at the rim, always a little way away from it. strange, but effective. Danny at 8 ft is better than most guys at the rim.

    But yeah, Danny did a lot of posting. Looking forward to more of it this year. and from Gerald and Paul also.

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Explain the scenario where this happens. How badly does Hill have to be playing?
    On a newly signed 5 for $40 deal? Pretty ****ing bad. I don't think Hill as a long term starting PG is a good idea, but I also don't think he'll be so poor that he's not the starter for the whole season with that kind of contract.
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    My thought also. Danny did post a lot. in that weird Danny way of course. Never shoved the defender under the basket to make a layup, but just shoved him back far enough to take that little mid-range jumper. Personally I think Danny is allergic to the orange paint on the rim. He never finishes at the rim, always a little way away from it. strange, but effective. Danny at 8 ft is better than most guys at the rim.

    But yeah, Danny did a lot of posting. Looking forward to more of it this year. and from Gerald and Paul also.
    Which is it? Does Danny not have the dribbling skills to get to the rim, or is he allergic? I would say he does not have the skills. How many times does Danny get called for a forearm push off as he drives? How many more times does he NOT get called for it?

    He has no in-and-out dribble move. He has no hesitation to respect because his crossover is slow. He is not a driver/slasher. He is a stop and pop and curler. He is old enough to expect nothing more. The only time he gets to the rim is when Roy and West have sealed their man on their hip, and the close out on his shot opens a dribble drive.

    A pull up from midrange is not a bad thing. In fact you need it to get into the paint. It is why Durant is so dangerous. He can catch, triple threat, drive past closeout, get into the midrange, hesitate, either pull up, step back, or drive hard to the rim.

    Danny is not that. And I don't think he ever will be. That is what we want Paul George to be.
    Last edited by Major Cold; 10-03-2012 at 09:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Danny posted up a lot last year. Did you not see it?
    No I saw it. I have wanted him to do it more for a long time now. Last year was easily the most he has done it in his career IMO. I just wish he had done it sooner and that he would have a more versatile and consistent post game than he does. I think he still has a severe propensity to camp behind the three point line and that needs to stop. For me, Danny matches up well against a lot of SFs in the strength department. Some he doesn't, but even then I would contend that guys like Josh Smith and Lebron James could get into foul trouble guarding Danny in the post much more than they would otherwise. Danny is such a good shooter that he should be money on those little fadeaways. He hit a fair number of them last year for sure, but half the times he does it he is awkward as hell because he doesn't get his hips squared away on his turnaround. I think Danny could command a double team the way that Hibbert often does and that creates passing lanes for West and lobs for Hibbert. That could be a sick three man game right there if Danny was better in the post than he is. I just hate seeing an opportunity to play to our strengths not being taken advantage of. Danny IMO should have been developing this big time under the JOB era, which is probably why he isn't better at it right now than he is. Not making JOB excuses per se, but its something that has bothered me for a while and I think of where his game could be right now as opposed to where it's at. Danny absolutely has to be our most efficient player. That is what we need from him and this would go a long way to helping his efficiency with the way he shoots free throws. Plus he'd be in position to rebound more, which is something I ABSOLUTELY LOVE to see him be aggressive with.
    Last edited by pacergod2; 10-03-2012 at 10:03 AM.
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  29. #46
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    No I saw it. I have wanted him to do it more for a long time now. Last year was easily the most he has done it in his career IMO. I just wish he had done it sooner and that he would have a more versatile and consistent post game than he does. I think he still has a severe propensity to camp behind the three point line and that needs to stop. For me, Danny matches up well against a lot of SFs in the strength department. Some he doesn't, but even then I would contend that guys like Josh Smith and Lebron James could get into foul trouble guarding Danny in the post much more than they would otherwise. Danny is such a good shooter that he should be money on those little fadeaways. He hit a fair number of them last year for sure, but half the times he does it he is awkward as hell because he doesn't get his hips squared away on his turnaround. I think Danny could command a double team the way that Hibbert often does and that creates passing lanes for West and lobs for Hibbert. That could be a sick three man game right there if Danny was better in the post than he is. I just hate seeing an opportunity to play to our strengths not being taken advantage of. Danny IMO should have been developing this big time under the JOB era, which is probably why he isn't better at it right now than he is. Not making JOB excuses per se, but its something that has bothered me for a while and I think of where his game could be right now as opposed to where it's at. Danny absolutely has to be our most efficient player. That is what we need from him and this would go a long way to helping his efficiency with the way he shoots free throws. Plus he'd be in position to rebound more, which is something I ABSOLUTELY LOVE to see him be aggressive with.
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2012/

    If you look at Danny's efficiency. He is no better 16ft to 3pt, 10ft to 15ft, or even 3ft to 9ft. So yes he could get better on the block efficiency speaking. But I do not want him to take more shots from there if he is not as good at it than the 3. Especially if it takes shots away from Roy or West on the block. I don't mind him going to the block if the front court is Ian and Tyler.

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    Because of age and other related issues, I think it means that Granger is moved if they can get good value out of him. I think a potent DJ, means that GH moves to the 2, and PG moves to the 3.

    If DJ can feed West and Hibbert as effectively as I can imagine he might be able to, we could be really dangerous. I think PG and GH defense could cover up DJ's weaknesses here.
    QFT

    I also believe that Danny would be the odd man out, and that the final piece to our puzzle will be brought here as a result of either his being traded, or letting him go when his contract is up will free up just enough space to bring back either a superstar or a combination of players that fill whatever holes finally present themselves at that time.

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2012/

    If you look at Danny's efficiency. He is no better 16ft to 3pt, 10ft to 15ft, or even 3ft to 9ft. So yes he could get better on the block efficiency speaking. But I do not want him to take more shots from there if he is not as good at it than the 3. Especially if it takes shots away from Roy or West on the block. I don't mind him going to the block if the front court is Ian and Tyler.
    I think that is what he's getting at.

    Danny never really developed a comfort in the post which is why he isn't as efficient scoring there. Had that been a priority for him, you'd probably see him be a major threat in the post against nearly every 3 in the league, including LBJ.
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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I think that is what he's getting at.

    Danny never really developed a comfort in the post which is why he isn't as efficient scoring there. Had that been a priority for him, you'd probably see him be a major threat in the post against nearly every 3 in the league, including LBJ.
    He may have been better against others not named LBJ, Artest, Pierce, etc. He does not have the lower frame to keep those players on his hip, and he does not have the quick lift to raise above them. At he can be a 45% on the block versus younger SFs. But I do not see him being dominant on the block.

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    Default Re: Hibberts respond to DJ versus DC

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    So what do we do if DJ ends up beating out Hill?
    Hope that Hill's injury heals soon.

    DJ's defensive potential is very similar to Travis Diener's. Unless DJ has a Nash-like effect on our offense, I can't see a one year rental getting the keys to the offense.

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