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Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

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  • #16
    Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Dallas is living off reputation. They did well for themselves after missing out on the superstuds, but...why? It's not like they're us, they've got plenty of goodwill in the fanbase why build a maybe playoff team instead of saying screw it and get a top 5 pick? But DC/Mayo/Marion?/Dirk/Kaman is just not that good, they're clearly not winning a title this year, I think it's 50/50 they even make the playoffs. They're old as dirt, you made moves to get a star, it didn't work, let those moves reach their conclusion and get (hopefully) a star in the draft by sucking.

    In a vacuum Dallas had a nice offseason with what they were working with. But looking back in 5 years I think it's going to be a major misstep. And them as a top 10 team is just ridiculous, that's a .500 team, maybe.

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    • #17
      Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

      I'd say the bench is better, but how much better is key, and that remains to be seen. Not sold on Hans or Mahinmi. Green & Agustin have had their moments, but still have something to prove as far as consistency, so there are question marks.

      I agree with a poster (??) I saw in another thread talking about the potential that our expectations have outstripped the actual improvement potential of the roster. I don't know if that's exactly how I'd explain it, but I think the sentiment is simpler.

      My take is more like, since Vogel's first (partial) season, each iteration of the team has gone about as ideally as one could realistically hope. On one hand, that leads you to believe their can be more improvment...and there may be. On the flip side, we've come so far given this core, this may be the year where we experience more struggles. It's easier to make quick gains from a lower starting point (what Vogel essentially inherited) than from a successful position (result of last roughly season & 1/3 under Vogel) trying to rise to the next tier.

      So, this may be the year where we plateau a bit, or possibly even regress slightly, although I'm not saying we won't be a good team/playoff team. Although the bench may end up being better when it's all said and done, I tend to think any further improvement falls primarily on Roy, Paul, and George to make noticeable strides in development. And a healthy, better shooting % Danny wouldn't hurt.
      I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

      -Emiliano Zapata

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      • #18
        Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

        Originally posted by Steagles View Post
        Philly is going to fall apart without Iggy. Without him it is a bunch of overrated youngsters. Bynum isn't mature either.
        This will be one of the more interesting things about this season. Iggy was critical defensively but Bynum's impact in the paint will completely change that team. They will need good shooters to go along with Bynum and good playmaking to take a step forward. If Bynum is a good fit, I think they improved. If not, they took a slight step back.

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        • #19
          Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

          Originally posted by shags View Post
          Yeah, Stein should show some respect for the starting point guard and the 6th man for teams that won a combined 22% of their games last year. Geez.
          Team sport. Go look up what that phrase means, and then try posting again once you understand it.

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          • #20
            Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

            Originally posted by Peck View Post
            The Clippers being that high is a joke.

            I need to really start looking at the 76ers because while I think they will be good I just don't see them as that good. I could see the Knicks having a better year than them but I need to think on this for awhile.
            The Knicks have a ton of talent and will challenge Philly, Boston and Indiana. Players who are still in their prime are Mello, JR Smith and Tyson Chandler. Amare Stoudemire is no longer dominant, but he's still an above average starter. I think people discount his contributions because he's not the same player. They do need Shumpert to return by midseason, although Ronnie Brewer was a decent addition to fill that need.

            Their PG situation is a question mark, but JKidd's experience and chemistry with Chandler should help them. Felton's numbers are on par with Augustin.

            Then you have the old guys who fill out the roster like Camby, Thomas and Sheed. It's hard to say whether those guys would be more effective than Tyler and our other scrubs.

            But the reason why the Knicks have a chance is really Mello. He can be a load and take over the game. We don't have a player like that.

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            • #21
              Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

              Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
              The Knicks have a ton of talent and will challenge Philly, Boston and Indiana. Players who are still in their prime are Mello, JR Smith and Tyson Chandler. Amare Stoudemire is no longer dominant, but he's still an above average starter. I think people discount his contributions because he's not the same player. They do need Shumpert to return by midseason, although Ronnie Brewer was a decent addition to fill that need.

              Their PG situation is a question mark, but JKidd's experience and chemistry with Chandler should help them. Felton's numbers are on par with Augustin.

              Then you have the old guys who fill out the roster like Camby, Thomas and Sheed. It's hard to say whether those guys would be more effective than Tyler and our other scrubs.

              But the reason why the Knicks have a chance is really Mello. He can be a load and take over the game. We don't have a player like that.

              I agree. I've been saying for a while that the Knicks' talent is much higher than the Pacers. I sure wouldn't want to play them in a playoff series. I haven't forgotten that weekend whooping they gave us back in March where they won 115-100 on a Friday night at the Garden, and then the next night ran us out of Indy by 14 points.

              Lin was a fun story, but I don't think they will miss him all that much. Felton worked out very well there two years ago and J-Kidd will be a fine backup who will be an excellent addition in the locker room. As you say, he has chemistry with Chandler from Dallas. They now have two important players who understand how a championship team conducts itself. They can bring their rings into the locker room and say "You want this? Well here's how you have to do do things...."

              Roy struggled to put up points against an Orlando team without Howard and a Miami team without Bosh. The Knicks' would absolutely torment him on D with the rotation of Chandler and Camby. Camby, while ancient, still averaged 9 rebounds a game last year and played in 59/62 games. Those two would make life unpleasant for Roy.

              Then you have Melo and Amare, who are still way better than any player we have on our roster. The Knicks are way more talented than the Pacers on paper. The only question is if the chemistry can work, and that's certainly a legitimate question. If it doesn't happen this season then I don't think it will ever happen. But if it does, then everyone not named Miami needs to watch their back.
              Last edited by Sollozzo; 09-30-2012, 10:05 AM.

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              • #22
                Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

                Originally posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
                Philly ahead of us is a joke. They lost what 3 of their starters. Sure they got Bynum but still. And does Stein just not know who DJ Augustin is? Or what about Gerald Green. Green

                Collison and Augistin essentially cancel each other out. If Augistin is better than Collison, it isn't by much. Augistin was able to do a lot more last year because he was on such a bad team. Collison had to share with George Hill.

                Our net gain was essentially Gerald Green, Ian Mahinmi, a rookie, and some scrubs for training camp. That's not enough to make a national writer like Stein bat an eye. It's pretty weak compared to what most teams in the East did this offseason.

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                • #23
                  Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

                  They may cancel each other out by talent, but if Augustin is going to be a distributor contrasting to Collison's scorer role, then I think that could have a greater impact on the rest of the bench than Collison did.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

                    Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                    I agree. I've been saying for a while that the Knicks' talent is much higher than the Pacers. I sure wouldn't want to play them in a playoff series. I haven't forgotten that weekend whooping they gave us back in March where they won 115-100 on a Friday night at the Garden, and then the next night ran us out of Indy by 14 points.

                    Lin was a fun story, but I don't think they will miss him all that much. Felton worked out very well there two years ago and J-Kidd will be a fine backup who will be an excellent addition in the locker room. As you say, he has chemistry with Chandler from Dallas. They now have two important players who understand how a championship team conducts itself. They can bring their rings into the locker room and say "You want this? Well here's how you have to do do things...."

                    Roy struggled to put up points against an Orlando team without Howard and a Miami team without Bosh. The Knicks' would absolutely torment him on D with the rotation of Chandler and Camby. Camby, while ancient, still averaged 9 rebounds a game last year and played in 59/62 games. Those two would make life unpleasant for Roy.

                    Then you have Melo and Amare, who are still way better than any player we have on our roster. The Knicks are way more talented than the Pacers on paper. The only question is if the chemistry can work, and that's certainly a legitimate question. If it doesn't happen this season then I don't think it will ever happen. But if it does, then everyone not named Miami needs to watch their back.
                    Roy struggled to score? I must have missed that. Big Roy avg 12 and 11 in the playoffs on only 9 shots a game. You up those FGA to 13, and it's prob closer to 15-16 ppg. I think at this point in their careers, he's better than Amare. Maybe not as talented, but does offer more contributions within the game.

                    I agree the Knicks have a lot of talent. If they can get or together, they could easily be number two in the east. But we've been saying that since Melo was traded there. If they don't do anything this season, like make the 2nd rd of the playoffs, I'd have to think they'd blow it up and see that the pieces aren't complimenting one another.

                    Should be interesting how they begin the season.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

                      Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                      Collison and Augistin essentially cancel each other out. If Augistin is better than Collison, it isn't by much. Augistin was able to do a lot more last year because he was on such a bad team. Collison had to share with George Hill.

                      Our net gain was essentially Gerald Green, Ian Mahinmi, a rookie, and some scrubs for training camp. That's not enough to make a national writer like Stein bat an eye. It's pretty weak compared to what most teams in the East did this offseason.
                      I agree although I give DC the edge over DJ. While our net gain was Green and Ian our net loss in that was a ton of cap space, Barbosa, Lou and Jones.
                      Green is not really a step up over Barbosa and Jones. Ian is a step up over Lou at center but it's sad that this was the best we could do for a 4 year contract. He doesn't block shots, and is too weak to really defend the post and protect the rim. He'll be a plus in guarding quicker big men though.
                      At best we broke even with our bench which again is sad considering what we spent and had to work with. This isn't being negative about the team, I expect our core to improve but it is being realistic. We're ranked a little low IMO but I can understand.
                      Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

                        Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                        I've been saying for a while that the Knicks' talent is much higher than the Pacers.
                        Does it translate in more wins in the regular season or the playoffs? No? Then why should we care?
                        Originally posted by IrishPacer
                        Empty vessels make the most noise.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

                          Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                          Does it translate in more wins in the regular season or the playoffs? No? Then why should we care?

                          And you know this how?

                          Speaking of the regular season though, they did wax us pretty good on a back to back in March.....

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

                            Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                            If Augistin is better than Collison, it isn't by much.
                            The argument is not which one is better. It is who is a better fit. Personally, I believe that DC is a better player than DJ. But DJ could be a better fit for our team. That would improve us as fit > talent.
                            Originally posted by IrishPacer
                            Empty vessels make the most noise.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

                              Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                              And you know this how?
                              Well, the last season and the playoffs said so. We will see if anything is going to change this season.

                              Originally posted by Sollozzo View Post
                              Speaking of the regular season though, they did wax us pretty good on a back to back in March.....
                              And we waxed OKC and LAL the exact same way. Does it say anything?
                              Originally posted by IrishPacer
                              Empty vessels make the most noise.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

                                Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
                                Well, the last season and the playoffs said so. We will see if anything is going to change this season.



                                And we waxed OKC and LAL the exact same way. Does it say anything?

                                We didn't beat OKC and LAL on back to backs in a weekend. The Knicks beat us two consecutive days by a combined total of 29 points. One loss can be a fluke, but there's something alarming when it happens back to back days to the same team.

                                All I'm saying is that I think that too many people on this forum and around the NBA in general have written the Knicks off. Do I think we could beat them in the playoffs? Absolutely. But would I be the least bit surprised if they beat us.

                                Also, the Knicks would have likely steamrolled the Magic just like we did. And we won one more game against the Heat than them, but they had to contend with Bosh for the entire series.

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