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Thread: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

  1. #51

    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    You can't rate a team that is entirely dependent on growth to be good, higher than a team that has already proved to be good and only need growth to improve. The 76ers lost 3 starters, and added Bynum. A guy that has shown great immaturity in the past.

    The Pacers were better last year, and now get to grow. The 76ers lost the heart and soul of their team and added pieces that might work well together. Thats a big MIGHT
    The 76ers arent entirely dependent on growth to be good. They were already OK, and made large roster improvements from last year. They traded away a very good, but not superstar wing for a player who is quite clearly the 2nd best center in the entire league. They have a young stud in Evan Turner who plays the same position and does a lot of the same things Iggy could do well. They lost Lou Williams and replaced him with Nick Young and Jason Richardson (probably a sidegrade), and lost an aging but solid Elton Brand but now have a bigs rotation of Bynum, Hawes and Kwame.

    But yea, if you want to talk about growth, they have 3 players that have just as much room for growth as our own Paul George in Bynum, Holiday and Turner. Plus, you say Bynum has been immature in the past, and he has, but you ignore the fact that he might also be just scratching the surface of his potential (he's a whole 1 year older than our rookie big Miles Plumlee and 1 year YOUNGER than our "young" bigs Roy Hibbert and Tyler Hansbrough).

    And the Pacers need new guys to "step up" too, because if they don't, we have no bench, and we all know bench production is 50% of what did us in last year against the Heat (the other 50% being James/Wade).

    This isnt a ranking of how good they were last year, its a ranking of how good one writer thinks they are now. Sure the Sixers have a lot of question marks, and you can disagree, with him (and like I said in my original post, I do disagree with him), but I think his ranking isnt far off. Its not like he put the Sixers 5 spots ahead of the Pacers.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipperZ View Post
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    The 76ers arent entirely dependent on growth to be good. They were already OK, and made large roster improvements from last year. They traded away a very good, but not superstar wing for a player who is quite clearly the 2nd best center in the entire league. They have a young stud in Evan Turner who plays the same position and does a lot of the same things Iggy could do well. They lost Lou Williams and replaced him with Nick Young and Jason Richardson (probably a sidegrade), and lost an aging but solid Elton Brand but now have a bigs rotation of Bynum, Hawes and Kwame.

    But yea, if you want to talk about growth, they have 3 players that have just as much room for growth as our own Paul George in Bynum, Holiday and Turner. Plus, you say Bynum has been immature in the past, and he has, but you ignore the fact that he might also be just scratching the surface of his potential (he's a whole 1 year older than our rookie big Miles Plumlee and 1 year YOUNGER than our "young" bigs Roy Hibbert and Tyler Hansbrough).

    And the Pacers need new guys to "step up" too, because if they don't, we have no bench, and we all know bench production is 50% of what did us in last year against the Heat (the other 50% being James/Wade).

    This isnt a ranking of how good they were last year, its a ranking of how good one writer thinks they are now. Sure the Sixers have a lot of question marks, and you can disagree, with him (and like I said in my original post, I do disagree with him), but I think his ranking isnt far off. Its not like he put the Sixers 5 spots ahead of the Pacers.
    This is a very different 76ers team from last year though. So much so, how good they were last year really has no bearing. The entire philosophy of that team has changed with the loss of Williams and AI.

    So much in fact that this is going to be a team that is pretty bad if the guys don't step up and Bynum doesn't adjust well to his new role.

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Odd, I think the Clippers and Sixers ARE better than the Pacers. Boston played well in the playoffs. That is why superstars are so valuable.... ...
    Odd, to find yet another post where you have to be Debbie Downer... Dont know if you have ever said anything positive about the Pacers...

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    And the Clippers are not better than the Pacers?
    Ok, I'll bite. Why are the Clippers so superior to the Pacers? Yes I get Chris Paul but after that I just don't see it.


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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Ok, I'll bite. Why are the Clippers so superior to the Pacers? Yes I get Chris Paul but after that I just don't see it.
    Blake Griffin? not only that but CP3 by himself should be enough to put the Clippers over the Pacers in my opinion, they also have a player in Butler that's not scrub, Jordan is also pretty good, I know many here hate Knick Young but the guy can score and go for 20+ points at any night.

    They also added Lamar Odom, a guy that when he is in shape he is better than anything the Pacers have and I bet if he was a Pacers many here would be proclaiming him a "20/10 guy at least".

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Blake Griffin? not only that but CP3 by himself should be enough to put the Clippers over the Pacers in my opinion, they also have a player in Butler that's not scrub, Jordan is also pretty good, I know many here hate Knick Young but the guy can score and go for 20+ points at any night.

    They also added Lamar Odom, a guy that when he is in shape he is better than anything the Pacers have and I bet if he was a Pacers many here would be proclaiming him a "20/10 guy at least".
    I'll give you Chris Paul, without a doubt one of the top 3 point guards in the NBA & frankly you could make arguments for him or Williams or Rose to be # 1.

    Yes Blake Griffin is a dynamic scorer but his defense is just not there. It's not bad mind you but it's not good either and frankly David West is the kind of player who is going to give him trouble (& yes vice versa I admit) because West doesn't rely on his athleticism.

    Butler is a good defender & can hit an open shot but honestly he's nothing special and any of Granger, George or Green will be able to get theirs with no problem and Danny has shut him down in the past as well.

    Nick Young is fine but I'll take Paul George. Lamar back in the day? Sure but this guy is a mental midget right now & frankly he is getting long in the tooth. Jordan needs to learn to play basketball without relying on his ability to jump.

    Teams can take him out of a game if they just keep a body on him & frankly he just has no hope vs Roy.

    Now on top of that we have George Hill who while is not a traditional point guard he does team up with Paul George to form a very dynamic defensive combo, somthing that honestly none of us talk enough about.

    I guess we are also forgetting about Grant Hill and he will help their depth for sure.

    But let's not forget that they have Del Negro as the head coach so that is a big minus right there.

    Look I'm not saying they are bad but I am saying that they are not laughably better than us as you implied in fact I dispute that they are really that much better than us if they are better than us at all.


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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Look I'm not saying they are bad but I am saying that they are not laughably better than us as you implied in fact I dispute that they are really that much better than us if they are better than us at all.
    Yes they are that much better because they have two guys that are way better than anything the Pacers have, I know many here don't want to believe it or refuse to believe it but superstars always triumph over a bunch of decent players that play "team basketball", I also know that some people want to bring Detroit as an example but the fact is that that team had four all stars and one pretty good player in Prince so nope the Pacers are not like The Pistons either.

    By the way I agree with you regarding Del Negro to me he is the only one holding that team back.

  9. #58

    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    If I'm not mistaken the clips lost nick young but added jamal Crawford, Lamar Odom and grant hill. That plus maybe chauncey for an entire year and they should be better this year than last.

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  11. #59

    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    This is a very different 76ers team from last year though. So much so, how good they were last year really has no bearing. The entire philosophy of that team has changed with the loss of Williams and AI.

    So much in fact that this is going to be a team that is pretty bad if the guys don't step up and Bynum doesn't adjust well to his new role.
    And if Bynum does adjust and new guys step up, then they'll be a beast of a team, and quite possibly better than Indiana. The bottom line is the sixers put themselves in a position to improve signifanctly better than the pacers did, and it's not unreasonable to think they may be better than Indiana this year. And that's all the power rankings are, one person thinking they will be slightly better this year
    Last edited by SkipperZ; 10-01-2012 at 02:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yes they are that much better because they have two guys that are way better than anything the Pacers have, I know many here don't want to believe it or refuse to believe it but superstars always triumph over a bunch of decent players that play "team basketball", I also know that some people want to bring Detroit as an example but the fact is that that team had four all stars and one pretty good player in Prince so nope the Pacers are not like The Pistons either.

    By the way I agree with you regarding Del Negro to me he is the only one holding that team back.
    Well first of all your not dealing "many here" your dealing with me. I agree with you, I said after the Miami series that the Heat series was so horrid for me because it proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that two superstars can beat a group of really good 5 players. I hate it, I hate it so much that I questioned why I watched the NBA all summer long but it is what it is.

    However we're not talking LeBron & Wade here. We are talking Chris Paul (superstar) I will give you that & won't bat an eye.

    However I'm sorry but Blake Griffin is a superstar because of his leaping & dunking ability. He does not take over on the defensive end and frankly for as athletic & strong as he is I think he can rebound better. So to me he is a star player but I will not put him on the level of Bryant, Wade, James, Paul, Williams, etc.

    So, yes I will now revert to the Indiana way and say that while I think Paul is great, he is not enough to overcome our team. A team of 5 really good players can beat a team of one superstar & another star player.

    You do agree with me that it took superhuman efforts from Wade & James in particular for the Heat to beat us last season. I don't think Paul, as good as he is, can take over the game like either of them can.


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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Well first of all your not dealing "many here" your dealing with me. I agree with you, I said after the Miami series that the Heat series was so horrid for me because it proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that two superstars can beat a group of really good 5 players. I hate it, I hate it so much that I questioned why I watched the NBA all summer long but it is what it is.

    However we're not talking LeBron & Wade here. We are talking Chris Paul (superstar) I will give you that & won't bat an eye.

    However I'm sorry but Blake Griffin is a superstar because of his leaping & dunking ability. He does not take over on the defensive end and frankly for as athletic & strong as he is I think he can rebound better. So to me he is a star player but I will not put him on the level of Bryant, Wade, James, Paul, Williams, etc.

    So, yes I will now revert to the Indiana way and say that while I think Paul is great, he is not enough to overcome our team. A team of 5 really good players can beat a team of one superstar & another star player.

    You do agree with me that it took superhuman efforts from Wade & James in particular for the Heat to beat us last season. I don't think Paul, as good as he is, can take over the game like either of them can.
    Here a thing basketball is game of matchups just because we did well against one team doesn't mean we'll do good against another team. The Clippers have better depth then miami and can be just as explosive if not more then the heat. They have such good depth that even when CP3 goes rest they can bring in Eric Bledsoe who can start on most teams that don't have an elite PG all that along with all the new players/vets they brought adds to their arguable one of the best teams in depth in the entire league.
    As for Blake Griffen we all know he is raw but he had one of the best rookie years in nba history and will only improve more and more. He would most likely be the best offensive player on our team. So to sum it up why they're ranked higher then us it's because: They have great depth, Blake Griffen who's an explosive offensive player(But is currently a hole in defense like you said and I agree but he's raw talent), and last but not least they have a Legit Superstar and the best point guard in the league. (Rose is injured to expect him to be better than cp3 would be speculating and Williams could never be argued over a healthy rose or cp3 and I disagree he's possible number 1 PG unless you believe the hilarious overrating by ESPN on him. No one actually thinks he's ranked 7 in the league and watching him play te past few seasons he has no case over those 2 but has some good aspects in his game but not enough over Rose and CP3). That and probably because they play in a much more competitive conference then we do. As for the bolded part in your post I also realized that after we lost and I was hysterical when thinking about it. I came to realize that the sport exposes an athletes ability to show how much better they are as individuals then the norm. Basketball as a sport is number 1 in terms of how much of an impact 1 player can have in a game. Superstars/Playmakers/Franchise players can carry you to playoffs because it's a game that allows you to showcase your talent with just 5 players in the court. Sports like soccer and football alow someplayers to take a day off or not step up but still win because of so many players in the field. In basketball everyone on the court needs to be on top of their game. Watching LeBrons game 6 against the celtics with calm and no pressure now that it wasn't against us made me realize how great he is. It's like boston played to their best level and will at their house but the plain truth is the LeBron is by far the best player on the court and if he wants it theirs nothing you can do about it despite it just being 1 player. He's not just the best player in that game, he has potential to be the greatest or at least play at the Greatest Level of play in the history on the NBA.

    I'm also not saying we can't beat the clippers or Heat. NBA is all about matchups and even though we have no superstar I believe we are better then both of them as a TEAM that plays like one. We just have to prove it and all our players have to step up.

    First post lol but I've been lurking with no account for a while but I'm especially excited for this season. Go Pacers.

  16. #62

    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by SkipperZ View Post
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    And if Bynum does adjust and new guys step up, then they'll be a beast of a team, and quite possibly better than Indiana. The bottom line is the sixers put themselves in a position to improve signifanctly better than the pacers did, and it's not unreasonable to think they may be better than Indiana this year. And that's all the power rankings are, one person thinking they will be slightly better this year
    Even if everything works out they still arent better. And since when did everybody work out like they were supposed to in NBA

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Well first of all your not dealing "many here" your dealing with me. I agree with you, I said after the Miami series that the Heat series was so horrid for me because it proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that two superstars can beat a group of really good 5 players. I hate it, I hate it so much that I questioned why I watched the NBA all summer long but it is what it is.

    However we're not talking LeBron & Wade here. We are talking Chris Paul (superstar) I will give you that & won't bat an eye.

    However I'm sorry but Blake Griffin is a superstar because of his leaping & dunking ability. He does not take over on the defensive end and frankly for as athletic & strong as he is I think he can rebound better. So to me he is a star player but I will not put him on the level of Bryant, Wade, James, Paul, Williams, etc.

    So, yes I will now revert to the Indiana way and say that while I think Paul is great, he is not enough to overcome our team. A team of 5 really good players can beat a team of one superstar & another star player.

    You do agree with me that it took superhuman efforts from Wade & James in particular for the Heat to beat us last season. I don't think Paul, as good as he is, can take over the game like either of them can.
    I've seen CP3 take over games and win pretty much by himself, I think you are under rating him, the same with Blake Griffin, yes his defense is not there yet but on offense the guy is amazing, nobody can stop him one on one, he is a superstar in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Just a random thought, we focus a lot on Roy's scoring (or what some see as lack there of) in the playoffs, but I don't think enough focus is paid to his defense which was elite and dominant in the playoffs. Just because LBJ and Wade successfully changed their games and added the runner to their arsenal does not dampen Roy's defensive impact, it just speaks to how good LBJ and Wade were. Roy was maybe the best post defender in the entire playoffs last year which says a lot. He thoroughly dominated that Orlando series, and was just as good in the Miami series. Miami just had enough talent to adapt to him and specifically they took advantage when he was on the bench. Which I think was our biggest need, a back up big who can at least some what fill Roy's shoes defensively, my hope and I'm guessing the Pacers' brass as well, is that Mahinmi can do that. If he can then a solid post defender off the bench is worth every bit of Darren Collison and Dahntay Jones and that was not nearly as bad a move as some made it out to be. Roy's defensive presence was massive and the drop off from him to Amunson on that end of the court was just as big, LBJ and Wade attacked relentlessly whenever Roy went out. Mahinmi hopefully bridges that gap a little.

    Point being, if you can average 12 and 10 and be the best defensive player on the floor, then that is a pretty big deal right there.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 10-01-2012 at 02:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Just a random thought, we focus a lot on Roy's scoring (or what some see as lack there of) in the playoffs, but I don't think enough focus is paid to his defense which was elite and dominant in the playoffs. Just because LBJ and Wade successfully changed their games and added the runner to their arsenal does not dampen Roy's defensive impact, it just speaks to how good LBJ and Wade were. Roy was maybe the best post defender in the entire playoffs last year which says a lot. He thoroughly dominated that Orlando series, and was just as good in the Miami series. Miami just had enough talent to adapt to him and specifically they took advantage when he was on the bench. Which I think was our biggest need, a back up big who can at least some what fill Roy's shoes defensively, my hope and I'm guessing the Pacers' brass as well, is that Mahinmi can do that. If he can then a solid post defender off the bench is worth every bit of Darren Collison and Dahntay Jones and that was not nearly as bad a move as some made it out to be. Roy's defensive presence was massive and the drop off from him to Amunson on that end of the court was just as big, LBJ and Wade attacked relentlessly whenever Roy went out. Mahinmi hopefully bridges that gap a little.
    Good analysis and now Philly has an elite center. The East is not as easy as some folks think..... ...

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Blake Griffin? not only that but CP3 by himself should be enough to put the Clippers over the Pacers in my opinion, they also have a player in Butler that's not scrub, Jordan is also pretty good, I know many here hate Knick Young but the guy can score and go for 20+ points at any night.

    They also added Lamar Odom, a guy that when he is in shape he is better than anything the Pacers have and I bet if he was a Pacers many here would be proclaiming him a "20/10 guy at least".
    Lamar Odom better than anyone on the Pacers? Nope.

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Good analysis and now Philly has an elite center. The East is not as easy as some folks think..... ...

    Bynum is an enigma. Let's give him 30+ games of being the focal point of a defense every night before we say he is truly elite. Not syaing he won't be, but the guy has been baby sat by Kobe and Pau his entire career.

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by bballpacen View Post
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    Odd, to find yet another post where you have to be Debbie Downer... Dont know if you have ever said anything positive about the Pacers...
    Of course I have. I love Hibbert's game and the man's work ethic. I like what I see of Paul George but he needs to keep working. West is the real deal at PF and I love Hill. The weak link is Granger but we have locked ourselves into him for life so that won't change but that is the only problem with this team that I see other than there are no superstars and that is what it takes to win in the playoffs. They will be a good regular season team probably around 48-34 and second in our division to the Bulls. I see them as a solid playoff team but not among the top two or three in the east like some others here..... We needed to replace Granger with a star in the off season to move that high in my opinion...... You can always block my posts if they bother you so much. No need to get your blood pressure up...... ... By the way, I am almost as much fun with politics and religion.....

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    How have we locked ourselves into Granger for life? His contract is almost up.

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Just start the regular season already...

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Blake Griffin? not only that but CP3 by himself should be enough to put the Clippers over the Pacers in my opinion, they also have a player in Butler that's not scrub, Jordan is also pretty good, I know many here hate Knick Young but the guy can score and go for 20+ points at any night.

    They also added Lamar Odom, a guy that when he is in shape he is better than anything the Pacers have and I bet if he was a Pacers many here would be proclaiming him a "20/10 guy at least".
    Nick Young plays for philly.

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Lamar Odom better than anyone on the Pacers? Nope.
    When healthy and in shape he is better than anybody on the Pacers and I probably give the edge to Roy because he is a Center.

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Prime West and prime Granger were both arguably better than prime Lamar Odom, and Hibbert and Paul George both have the potential to eclipse his prime in due time. In fact, Big Roy has already surpassed Odom's number of All-Star game appearances.

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    When healthy and in shape he is better than anybody on the Pacers and I probably give the edge to Roy because he is a Center.
    How? In his prime, perhaps you could argue that. Not now though, not now. LA > us i could possible see, but Odom is no where near Roy, or several other Pacers at this point.

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    Default Re: Espn Power rankings Pacers #8

    Odom was a good player but he has always been a role player. He might have been the best role player in the league but still just a role player. The last time he was better than Granger, Granger was a second year player.

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