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Thread: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

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    Default Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys


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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Lets hope we dont' have a repeat of Grangers post all-star year where he tore his plantar fascia because they didn't let him rest the nagging injury. As we seen last year against Miami, Granger his still the heart and soul of this team.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Some things I really liked:

    Before we get to that, though, forward Danny Granger, the team’s leading scorer the past five seasons, will be limited some at the start of training camp after an issue with his left knee, which happened while working out in Los Angeles late in the summer, caused him to get an injection in it.
    Besides mindfully resting his knee, I call shenanigans in saying that this is "Operation: How Does The Team Do Without Danny".

    I ran into forward David West in the building and immediately noticed that he spent a lot of time in the offseason toning up his upper body.It helps that he was able to work on his entire body during the summer instead of just focusing on rehabilitating his surgically repaired knee like in the summer of 2011.


    Good to know that West is making use of his time. And that he's focusing on his strength. The last thing the other 29 teams in the NBA need is David West looking even meaner.

    Vogel said Lance Stephenson has the inside track to backup Paul George at shooting guard.
    “Lance Stephenson has challenged for playing time for two years. Now he’s playing with more confidence than he ever has. So he’s going to challenge the starters.”


    This seems to be the case with Lance. But if Vogel is impressed, then I can't wait to see how he does with the playing time he's given. Looks like he'll actually get plenty of chances this season.

    Vogel on Gerald Green and D.J. Augustin:
    “Gerald Green is doing things everyday I didn’t think was possible for human beings to do. D.J. has really blown me away in the limited time that he’s been here in terms of his ability to create and make others better. That’s a unique talent to have. Literally on almost every possession he makes somebody better with his passing.”


    Apparently, Gerald Green is an alien. I should've called it a long time ago. I really hope that he does what he's supposed to for this team. He has a lot of potential. Also, it's good to know that DJ is making a name for himself in the facilitation department.

    Vogel on Jeff Pendergraph:
    He might have had as good a September as anybody on our team. Donnie Walsh called him the MVP of the month. He’s going to be pushing for minutes.”


    I was hoping Pendergraph would start pushing for minutes around the team. I'd be happy with JP, Plumlee, Mahinmi, Fez, Lou, and Jeff Foster fighting for backup minutes if it meant Hansbrough was getting fewer minutes. Not a blatant "hate remark", I'm just saying that I hope even Pendergraph can make Hansbrough fight for his playing time.

    Vogel on Ian Mahinmi:
    “We felt like Lou (Amundson) did a great job last year, but we also felt like we got lucky with injuries to (Andrew) Bogut, (Al) Horford, (Brook) Lopez and (Dwight) Howard. We think Mahinmi will size up and give us more depth against those elite centers better than Lou did.”


    It's good that Vogel realizes that we got lucky with all the big man injuries this season. And I'm glad that Mahinmi was the solution for that problem (rather him that trusting Hansbrough to turn around).
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Danny's had nagging knee stuff since college. Wonder if he's looked into the platelette spinning stuff Kobe and some other guys got done in Germany? If it'd even help.

    If they say it's no big deal, then no big deal I guess. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    So I guess I can already bury my hope for Granger not starting slow for a change.
    Let's trade him.

    Reading Franks and Pauls comments about Augustin, always reminds of Collison. To me, it reads like Darren almost didn't have any talent to make players around him better. Or perhaps I read it like that, cuz it's my personal opinion

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by imbtyler View Post
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    I was hoping Pendergraph would start pushing for minutes around the team. I'd be happy with JP, Plumlee, Mahinmi, Fez, Lou, and Jeff Foster fighting for backup minutes if it meant Hansbrough was getting fewer minutes. Not a blatant "hate remark", I'm just saying that I hope even Pendergraph can make Hansbrough fight for his playing time.
    Jeff Foster's going to spend this year pushing Croshere for minutes. (grin)

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Cover your cheerios...

    The Pendegraph thing puzzles me. He looked bad to meh in summer league, mostly bad. So has he had a lightbulb come on or is his competition not that good, right now? I'm skeptical, he's always had a good motor, just very little skill (trying to be nice here). Its just hard to believe someone could improve, skillwise, that much to challenge for PT over what, a month?

    Of course everyone is undefeated headed into camp, so the optimism is rampant.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Cover your cheerios...

    The Pendegraph thing puzzles me. He looked bad to meh in summer league, mostly bad. So has he had a lightbulb come on or is his competition not that good, right now? I'm skeptical, he's always had a good motor, just very little skill (trying to be nice here). Its just hard to believe someone could improve, skillwise, that much to challenge for PT over what, a month?

    Of course everyone is undefeated headed into camp, so the optimism is rampant.
    You also need to remember he was coming off an ACL tear just like West was, so it could just be a matter of him finally being confident in his knee again.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    You also need to remember he was coming off an ACL tear just like West was, so it could just be a matter of him finally being confident in his knee again.
    I've always thought he had a decent game. Seems like he could at least be a plus rebounder and defender. He doesn't have much of a mid range game, so he can't stretch the floor...then again, Hans doesn't do anything well except give hard fouls. If Hans can hit that mid range shot at a high %, then he'll certainly have a place in the league for short bursts of minutes.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Really like what I'm reading/hearing about the Pacers. Just hope all the hard work pays off and we see the results. I really want this bench to not be a weakness. Really want Lance to earn more playing time, cause the talent is certainly there. He could be a huge lift for this team. With Green being the main go to guy off the bench, the offense could stagnate if teams double team Green often. DJ and Lance are gonna have to step up their offensive games.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    I'm glad Lance is going to be at the two. That is all.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    How big must David West be to be noticeably bigger? The guy was already a tank.


    I was really hoping he'd slim down, if anything.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    You also need to remember he was coming off an ACL tear just like West was, so it could just be a matter of him finally being confident in his knee again.
    Green- NO HE CLEARLY HAD A BAD SUMMER LEAGUE SO THAT MEANS HE IS USELESS!!!!

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    How big must David West be to be noticeably bigger? The guy was already a tank.


    I was really hoping he'd slim down, if anything.
    I guess I kind of took it as he is more toned...
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    The Pendegraph thing puzzles me. He looked bad to meh in summer league, mostly bad. So has he had a lightbulb come on or is his competition not that good, right now? I'm skeptical, he's always had a good motor, just very little skill (trying to be nice here). Its just hard to believe someone could improve, skillwise, that much to challenge for PT over what, a month?
    I don't think that's fair. I thought Penderwall shows some solid skills last year. On multiple occasions he'd make the pro-quality move but be unable to finish it. That could be a lack of skill, but it could also be a bad wheel.

    A healed knee, plus another year of experience, plus a little more skill, could easily equal a decent backup big man for us. I'm not saying he's a Dwight-killer, but I could see him stealing Tyler's minutes.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    From the blog - "....after an issue with his left knee, which happened while working out in Los Angeles late in the summer...."

    I swear I remember Granger putting ice on his knees while on the bench during games this past season. Seems I recall it happening a lot. I wonder if the "happened while working out in LA" is really a continuation of some problems from the previous season.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I don't think that's fair. I thought Penderwall shows some solid skills last year. On multiple occasions he'd make the pro-quality move but be unable to finish it. That could be a lack of skill, but it could also be a bad wheel.

    A healed knee, plus another year of experience, plus a little more skill, could easily equal a decent backup big man for us. I'm not saying he's a Dwight-killer, but I could see him stealing Tyler's minutes.
    Thats probably more fair. Seeing him in nut squad/garbage time last year, I thought he looked, okay, but its so hard to tell. Skill wise in the summer league, Mavunga looked better. Yep, just summer league, but looking bad or invisible in summer league isn't a good thing, especially against that level of talent. Especially when Plumlee looked like he belonged. Its a tough thing to look at, McBob looked all world, so theres that.

    Its not a huge deal, other than to say he's vying for minutes seems like a stretch to me. Maybe he's really gotten physically healed and the lightbulb all went on at the same time. Even if Tyler is what we think he is (minus 40% shooting) I would still have trouble seeing Pendegraph getting his minutes.

    I'm just skeptical with everything considered that he's a rotation type player on a good team, at this point, hopefully I'm wrong.
    Last edited by Speed; 09-26-2012 at 12:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    How big must David West be to be noticeably bigger? The guy was already a tank.


    I was really hoping he'd slim down, if anything.
    Well, the article said he was toning his upper body. That doesn't mean he has to be bigger. Perhaps just in better shape.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by J7F View Post
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    I guess I kind of took it as he is more toned...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White
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    Well, the article said he was toning his upper body. That doesn't mean he has to be bigger. Perhaps just in better shape.
    Looking at the pic in Speed's avatar, it looks like there's only one direction 'toned' can go, and it ain't smaller.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    So the chances of Granger getting off to yet another slow start just increased.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    I might just be crazy (there's actually a very good chance of that), but I really think that this team, as it's built now, may end up being better off without Granger by the end of the season. Again, this is just crazy speculation, but given that the starting line-up could change over the course of the next 82 regular season games, we could potentially see an on-court line-up that flourishes without Granger commanding it.

    I just really hope that this team is as good as it looks on paper. Our bench is definitely much stronger than last season, and a lot (if not all) of our guys will be getting better this year. I would even say that Hansbrough is going to improve, but let's take a quick look at our roster from the end of last season:

    Hill/DC/Price
    PG/Barbosa/Lance
    DG/Dahntay
    West/Hans/Pendergraph
    Roy/Foster/Lou/Fez

    Here is (roughly) what our roster will look like at the start of this season:

    Hill/DJA/Gaines/Ahearn
    PG/Lance/OJ
    DG/GG/Young
    West/Hans/Pendergraph
    Roy/Mahinmi/Plum/Nevill

    Those italicized are training camp pick-ups who may or may not earn a spot on the regular season roster.


    • Given that Augustin's facilitating and creating skills are far greater than Collison's, that is technical upgrade over last season (otherwise, DC would be more fit playing the 2).
    • Since we lost AJ Price, the third-string back-up point guard position is open, which is Ahearn's and Gaines' spot to lose. Given this is third-string we're talking about, this change is kind of a ±0 in my book.
    • If Lance improves enough to earn his minutes backing up Paul, and his talent is any indicator, then he should be an upgrade over Barbosa last season (Leandro did well for us, but was streaky).
    • If Lance doesn't improve enough, Gerald Green will be the first wing off the bench behind PG and Granger. His much more consistent and explosive offense is an upgrade over Dahntay, but his defense has yet to be proven. Regardless, Paul's defense alone could be enough to counter what we lose without having Dahntay.
    • According to his stats, Sam Young would be a valuable second-string (and even starting) wing (G/F) on most other teams in the league (ATL, BKN, CHA, CHI, CLE, DET, HOU, LAL*, MEM, MIL, MIN, NOH, NYK, OKC, ORL, PHX, SAC, TOR, UTA, WAS, from my research). With that said, having Green and Young as the prime back-ups at the 2/3 would be an upgrade compared to Lance and Dahntay.**
    • It should be noticed that the addition of Mahinmi and Plumlee are the only additions in our frontcourt, having lost Fez, Lou, and Foster. Since Foster retired, and Mahinmi and Plumlee† both have height and skill over Lou and Fez (respectively), I would call these additions an upgrade. Because Lou was Roy's primary back-up, Fez received a grand total of 17 minutes in 3 games played last season. Therefore, directly comparing Mahinmi to Fez would not only be unfair, it would show that Mahinmi himself is a clear upgrade over Fez.


    When breaking it down like this, our bench, as it stands, has been majorly upgraded, to the point that even our starting line-up could upgrade pending the seasonal development of some of these players. And even though it goes without mentioning, I am filled with anticipation for this upcoming season. We were #3 in the East last year, and #5 in the league. Some would call that a fluke, or pure luck, but this is our year to prove we belong in the presence of the Eastern giants.

    The point I've been trying to make is that we are much better than we were last year, and there is no reason why we can't do much better than we did last year. Though there's a lot of sun shining through my post, there's also a lot of logic.

    I believe in the 2012-13 Indiana Pacers, and you should too!





    * Jodie Meeks is listed as Kobe's back-up on Yahoo!'s depth charts. My statement implies that the teams listed have players in the 2/3 spot who are ≤ Young.

    ** This is implying that starting players from the mentioned seasons would not be backing up other positions. For example, Hill/PG/DG aren't considered to back-up 2/3/4, since they already start at 1/2/3. Because I'm discussing the bench, my statement stands that the values of non-starting back-up players (Lance, Young, Green, Dahntay, DJA, DC, etc.) are in consideration.

    † Given that Plumlee has yet to prove himself on an official NBA court, it's hard to say that he will be an upgrade over Lou. Especially because Lou's contribution last season was far greater than we expected from him. However (I know this is a lot to ask for), if Plumlee mixed his own height and skillset with Lou's hustle, motor, and execution, as well as Hansbrough's fearlessness to get to the line, then we'd be even more upgraded than I imagine.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

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    I might just be crazy (there's actually a very good chance of that), but I really think that this team, as it's built now, may end up being better off without Granger by the end of the season. Again, this is just crazy speculation, but given that the starting line-up could change over the course of the next 82 regular season games, we could potentially see an on-court line-up that flourishes without Granger commanding it.
    .
    WE have the same starting line up as last year, the same line up that absolutely melted when Granger got hurt. Until proven otherwise, Danny Granger is the Pacers. Roy Hibbert might have gotten the big contract, but he isn't the number 1 option on this team.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    It's not like West was suddenly going to be faster. I'm fine with him adding more strength or mass.

    Then again, tone could just mean he looks more cut.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    For the record, I'd say Gerald Green, role wise, replaces Barbosa, while Lance is replacing Dahntay Jones. Barbosa was the off the bench scoring threat, and that will also be Gerald Green's role if he can fill it. If Lance can simply play good defense and not be terrible on offense than our two new wing players should be a net positive over the former.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by imbtyler View Post
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    I might just be crazy (there's actually a very good chance of that), but I really think that this team, as it's built now, may end up being better off without Granger by the end of the season. Again, this is just crazy speculation, but given that the starting line-up could change over the course of the next 82 regular season games, we could potentially see an on-court line-up that flourishes without Granger commanding it.
    Dude you are really making it difficult for me to not take these type of statements out on Paul George.

    It's not his fault that his fans see Danny as an obsticle but man this gets irritatiting.

    I'll say it again, they do not play the game the same way. They compliment each other on the defensive end quite well and until proven otherwise they can co exist on offense.

    Training camp hasn't even started yet & you guys are already on this stuff.

    No offense btw, you can like whoever you want but for those of us who happen to still like Danny it is frustrating because it seems like you guys are trying to make us choose one or the other when I feel like they are greater as a combo than either of them is as an individual.


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