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Thread: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    I just hope if PG does step it up offensively we don't get a bunch of "see! Danny's scoring less and Paul's scoring more! We don't need Danny!" There's only so many buckets to go around, if you want George to get up to 16 points a night or whatever then someone's scoring's going to suffer and it'd probably be Danny. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I just hope people understand that.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    When's the Pacer's media day?
    "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Dude you are really making it difficult for me to not take these type of statements out on Paul George.

    It's not his fault that his fans see Danny as an obsticle but man this gets irritatiting.

    I'll say it again, they do not play the game the same way. They compliment each other on the defensive end quite well and until proven otherwise they can co exist on offense.

    Training camp hasn't even started yet & you guys are already on this stuff.

    No offense btw, you can like whoever you want but for those of us who happen to still like Danny it is frustrating because it seems like you guys are trying to make us choose one or the other when I feel like they are greater as a combo than either of them is as an individual.
    I wasn't saying that we won't need Granger anymore or anything like that. What I was implying was, as a whole, I would like to see our team be able to function properly without Granger in the line-up. That way, if he goes down for a few games, or his knee starts acting up again, we can be sure that the rest of the team will still be able to pull out a win.

    Truthfully, I'm still in the group of people who would prefer to have Paul and Granger playing together. Granger is now the longest-tenured Pacer on the squad. I'm not really an "either/or" guy when it comes to PG and DG. But, if a superstar-less team can win without their (arguably) best player, that's saying a lot for the team. And it's not so much to ask. If any team can do it, I think it's this one.

    Really, the only player I'm ready to see out of a Pacers jersey at this point is Hansbrough. I've had it out for him the last couple seasons, and would reallllllllyyyy love for him to turn around this year so he's not "useless" to us. But one of my biggest fears is the whole team doing well, and Hansbrough unnecessarily slowing down the tempo of the game, or throwing a wrench in the gears of the team workflow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by imbtyler View Post
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    Really, the only player I'm ready to see out of a Pacers jersey at this point is Hansbrough. I've had it out for him the last couple seasons, and would reallllllllyyyy love for him to turn around this year so he's not "useless" to us. But one of my biggest fears is the whole team doing well, and Hansbrough unnecessarily slowing down the tempo of the game, or throwing a wrench in the gears of the team workflow.
    Whatever you just hate his name:-)

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by imbtyler View Post
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    Really, the only player I'm ready to see out of a Pacers jersey at this point is Hansbrough. I've had it out for him the last couple seasons, and would reallllllllyyyy love for him to turn around this year so he's not "useless" to us. But one of my biggest fears is the whole team doing well, and Hansbrough unnecessarily slowing down the tempo of the game, or throwing a wrench in the gears of the team workflow.
    That was a nice overview of the roster in the previous post.

    But I thought Ian and Plums were also supposed to play some four. If Hans continues to disappoint, I was hoping one of Ian and Plums, or both, could end up being the backup 4. Particularly, it seems more realistic that Ian might do this. Wasn't that in the discussion when we traded for him?

    Come playoff time, when we shorten the roster, this "X man" could be the backup for the 4 and the 5.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Whew. I was worried we weren't going to get the annual "Everybody's super-awesomely awesome" article before the end of September. Cutting it close, Wells.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Personally, if Hansbrough doesn't make huge improvements, I am hoping that Plumlee is capable of beating him out for the backup position before the season even starts.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    I think that was being discussed about them playing minutes at the four next to Hibbert, which would make us exceptionally long in the front court. Two seven footers (ok Ian is only 6'11") playing at the same time, with two guys who can defend the four spot, makes us tough defensively. Offensively, I am concerned about these two knocking down the 12 footer. That is a big thing that West does for Hibbert. He consistently knocks down the longer-range shot, which opens up interior space for Hibbert.

    As for West toning down, I inevitably gained a lot of weight after my knee surgeries since most aerobic exercise is not allowed and once I slimmed down to a normal weight, it made my mobility SOOOO much better. With West, if he is just as strong and going to play at 5-10 pounds lighter, it will make a huge difference for him. That is what I HOPE Wells meant by this.

    The comments made about Pendergraph might be meant to push Hansborough harder. I really like Pendergraph's game. Ever since ASU. I think he has a much better skill set than he is getting credit for, because most people have only seen him in garbage minutes (including the garbage minutes in Summer League). I think he fits our smashmouth basketball as much as Tyler does and he finishes a hell of a lot better around the rim. He is a better leaper and gets up over other bigs much easier. He has solid back to the basket moves, as he was the focal point of ASU's offense in his time there. It might just be that Pendergraph is getting more and more confidence as he refines his game. I really liked the signing at the time and I still do. Pendergraph is strong enough to guard centers, but gives up height to them, which isn't really as much of a concern with the rest of the height our front court has now. I think Pendergraph and Lance will surprise us as they get comfortable with getting more minutes this year.

    Most players ice down after games. Soem players focus on certain areas more than others and I am sure Danny putting ice on his knees is him just being proactive with his knees as he gets older.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    WE have the same starting line up as last year, the same line up that absolutely melted when Granger got hurt. Until proven otherwise, Danny Granger is the Pacers. Roy Hibbert might have gotten the big contract, but he isn't the number 1 option on this team.
    Just my opinion here, but I think Hibbert SHOULD be the first option. Of course that hinges on others being able to get the ball to him, in the proper position, and the proper time.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    Most players ice down after games. Soem players focus on certain areas more than others and I am sure Danny putting ice on his knees is him just being proactive with his knees as he gets older.
    I hope you are right about this. My observation of him icing down was DURING the games, when he would get a break on the bench. It seemed they were bothering him for a good amount of the season.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Just my opinion here, but I think Hibbert SHOULD be the first option. Of course that hinges on others being able to get the ball to him, in the proper position, and the proper time.
    A slow center is seldom going to be the true #1 option because he isn't going to get you any offense in transition. He might be your main option in the half court offense, but your wings are still going to have and create more opportunities to score overall.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    I always assumed half court when I read people say '#1 option'.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Hibbert cannot be the number 1 option late in games. He just can't be. It is way too hard to get a true center the ball late in games. Even Shaq couldn't do it consistently.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I always assumed half court when I read people say '#1 option'.
    You would think, but then people seem to think the #1 option is the guy that is going to score the most. That can't be the case the way most teams play the game today, since too much of the offense is in transition.
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Hibbert should be the number one option not because he will score the most but because running the offense through him will make the whole offense better. We don't really have a wing player like Reggie who you could build the whole offense around, unless one of the young guys just explode this season, but we do have a starting 5 loaded with number 2's, and a number 3. Very few teams can say they have 5 starters who can score, and score well. Right now that is what we have. We have two borderline number one options in Hibbert and Granger, an excellent number 2 option in West, a borderline number 2 in George*, and a solid number 3 option in Hill. Only teams like Miami and the Lakers can claim to have as much or more fire power on offense. To top it all off we only have one weak defender in the group, and by weak I mean average.


    *Put George on a team without as many scoring options and I am betting he would average 16 to 18 ppg last season. It isn't that he can't score, only that he doesn't have to score.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    They'll be fine. Still have over a month until the season starts.
    "We want Miami"

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Hibbert should be the number one option not because he will score the most but because running the offense through him will make the whole offense better. We don't really have a wing player like Reggie who you could build the whole offense around, unless one of the young guys just explode this season, but we do have a starting 5 loaded with number 2's, and a number 3. Very few teams can say they have 5 starters who can score, and score well. Right now that is what we have. We have two borderline number one options in Hibbert and Granger, an excellent number 2 option in West, a borderline number 2 in George*, and a solid number 3 option in Hill. Only teams like Miami and the Lakers can claim to have as much or more fire power on offense. To top it all off we only have one weak defender in the group, and by weak I mean average.


    *Put George on a team without as many scoring options and I am betting he would average 16 to 18 ppg last season. It isn't that he can't score, only that he doesn't have to score.
    Excellent post and I couldn't agree more. The offense absolutely should go through Hibbert because when it does, thats when its at the best. Roy is a great passer from the post and took great strides in finishing at the rim last season and I expect him to be even better this season. The problem is getting Roy the ball. Hopefully we are improved in that area this season. Hill being a full time PG and Augustin coming off the bench inclines me to think we will be. Also Paul George and Danny can easily feed the post if needed as well. We really should be better at hitting West and Hibbert down low.

    And we certainly have a high powered starting 5. Which means we need to make good passes and be sure to find the best shot, because all 5 guys are capable of putting up 20 points any night. I hope with a solid and steady starting 5, West and Hill returning for their second year, the chemistry will be even better. Lets not forget we were running a new offense last season with new pieces. Once Hill took over the starting role, our starting 5 really got going at the end of the year. I expect more of that. Also West is 100%.

    Each of our starters could average more points if they were playing on a different team. But thats what makes our starting 5 so good. They don't care about individual stats. I'm excited to see what they have in store for us.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    The offense absolutely should go through Hibbert because when it does, thats when its at the best.
    Technically doesn't that mean we want Roy to be the play initiator (i.e. the ball comes down court and goes to him then the halfcourt offense starts) as opposed to the number one scoring option (the majority of plays are built for Roy to score first and pass second)?
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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Technically doesn't that mean we want Roy to be the play initiator (i.e. the ball comes down court and goes to him then the halfcourt offense starts) as opposed to the number one scoring option (the majority of plays are built for Roy to score first and pass second)?
    If Roy is in a position to score, he should always look to score first. It is Roy scoring that makes him being the initiator work.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    . The offense absolutely should go through Hibbert because when it does, thats when its at the best. Roy is a great passer from the post and took great strides in finishing at the rim last season and I expect him to be even better this season.
    I would argue that the offense is much better when it goes through David West. He's more experienced, slightly better passer, much better ball handler, and has a real ability to make the correct pass.

    Actually I think we saw the offense go through West more and more as the season went along, and especially in the playoffs.


    Note: I'm not suggesting the offense needs to or even should go through West, but if it has to go through either West or Hibbert, I want it to go through West.

    I loved Roy's role in the playoffs. Defender first, offensive player and scorer second. That is what we need from him.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 09-27-2012 at 02:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by rock747 View Post
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    When's the Pacer's media day?
    Monday

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I would argue that the offense is much better when it goes through David West. He's more experienced, slightly better passer, much better ball handler, and has a real ability to make the correct pass.

    Actually I think we saw the offense go through West more and more as the season went along, and especially in the playoffs.
    Definitely. The problem wasn't West though, it was often the other guy we frequently saw try to play a two man game with him in the playoffs, Barbosa.

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    Default Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    I think Roy would have to work too hard if we tried to run the offense through him all the time. Sometimes he's just not going to get position. I'd like to see a nice balance to the offense. Plus I don't think Ian has the same skill set offensively as Roy. So everything would have to change when Roy sits down. We need a nice balanced offense.

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