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Thread: Ref'ing thread

  1. #76

    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    better idea I saw posted:

    We all want to do something about this lockout. The problem: we are addicts and can’t give up our football.

    IDEA: Go to the game, since we are addicts, but do something to show your displeasure. What if everyone at the game, the whole stadium, stood up and together they all turned their backs to the field, for just one play (the opening kickoff)?????

    It would make a very powerful statement.

    You likely wouldn’t miss anything either, since there’s an 80% chance that the kicker kicks it through the endzone anyway.

    The media would be asking Goodell’s opinion on the “fan protest”. It would also spread to every NFL stadium in a week. It would be a total embarrassment to the league but would not deprive any of us addicts of our fix.

    I don’t know what sort of protest from home would be as effective, but I would think that the owners (and Goodell) would not be happy with the on-TV display of fans turning their backs on the field in a united, symbolic protest, knowing that most of those protesters are season ticket holders.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  2. #77
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Should a flag have been thrown? Absolutely! I don't know how you can say probably. The defender lead with his helmet, was a helmet to helmet hit on a defenseless receiver. That is a flag every time. And we saw exactly why. Cause DHB was knocked out before he hit the ground. Mundy wasn't going to the pass. He was going for the big hit. And sloppy at that, aka leading with your helmet.
    I say "probably" because there were three players all going after the ball. Mundy was breaking on the ball, broke up the pass, and heads happened to hit. That isn't the same as "leading with his helmet." Look at Mundy's posture, his hands are out and in the receivers body to break up the pass and his head is upright, not leading. He didn't launch. Yes, the heads hit but Mundy also timed his hands perfectly to break up the pass without committing interference. If you expect the DB to stop short when he has a chance to make a play on the ball to avoid a football collision that might involve each player's heads, then I expect the WR to ALSO stop short of the pass in the same circumstance. That's an equally unerasonable position to take along the expectation that its the defender's job to eliminate helmet to helmet hits.

    I wouldn't have thrown a fit if a flag were thrown, but I don't think its a cut and dry case of leading with the helmet when it was a poorly thrown pass that several players had a chance to get to and they were all breaking on the ball. That's just football.
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  3. #78
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    That was the proverbial **** hitting the fan.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  5. #79
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    The NFL's using refs that got fired from the LINGERIE FOOTBALL LEAGUE FOR INCOMPETENCE.

    http://deadspin.com/5946112/

    Because of the LFL's perception it is that much more critical for us to hire officiating crews that are competent, not only for the credibility of our game but to keep our athletes safer. Due to several on-field incompetent officiating we chose to part ways with with a couple crews which apparently are now officiating in the NFL. We have a lot of respect for our officials but we felt the officiating was not in line with our expectations.

    We have not made public comment to date because we felt it was not our place to do so. However in light of tonight's event, we felt it was only fair that NFL fans knew the truth as to who are officiating these games.
    The Lingerie Football League cares more about the integrity of their game than the NFL.

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  7. #80
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Green Bay is the sacrificial lamb. This replacement ref thing is over. After MNF, I guarantee you Green Bay's management is on the phone with Goodell asking for an explanation first thing this morning. It was only a matter of time before it happened and it finally did. The refs missed a call that cost someone the game. They actually missed THREE calls because they didn't flag Tate for shoving the defender, THEN they awarded him the ball and the TD when Jennings had it first AND had it wrapped to his chest with both arms on the ground, THEN they declined to reverse their decision when replays CLEARLY showed everything they screwed up on the final play. If Green Bay had any balls at all they should have refused to return to the field and line up for the extra point. What were the refs gonna do if they did? Make them forfeit? They already stole a game from them.
    Last edited by travmil; 09-25-2012 at 06:34 AM.

  8. #81
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    As I asked in the other post, when a called TD goes to replay what exactly are the limitations on the ref? Can he look for simultaneous possession and all of that or is he limited by rule to looking for possession and whether the offensive player has gotten 2 feet inbounds and crossed the plane of the goal line?

    I doubt the regular refs would've called the offensive pass interference, especially on the home team, in a Hail Mary situation. The play itself was weird and watching in real time without closeups makes it hard to see who had it and when so I don't think there's any guarantee regular refs would've called it any differently, or with any less confusion. So then the question becomes- What options were available under current replay rules?

    IOW, it could be these refs called it as well as the rules allowed and exactly like the replay rules required even if they saw what was obvious to everyone on replay. ...I just know the replay rules can be a little weird and limiting. This might be one of those times... or not...
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  9. #82
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    HA!. A comedian on Bob and Tom just said at this point, the NFL should just try actual zebras out there.

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  11. #83
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    WE NEED THE ACTUAL REFS BACK
    Smothered Chicken!

  12. #84

    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    As I asked in the other post, when a called TD goes to replay what exactly are the limitations on the ref? Can he look for simultaneous possession and all of that or is he limited by rule to looking for possession and whether the offensive player has gotten 2 feet inbounds and crossed the plane of the goal line?
    ESPN is saying that possession must be decided by the referee on the field,

    and that the only reviewable parts of the play are:
    1) was the player who was ruled on the field to have caught the ball actually in the endzone? (YES)
    2) did the ball hit the turf before control was established (NO)
    3) Did he make an illegal touch; i.e., had he run out of bounds and then was the first to touch the ball. (NO)

    Florio at profootballtalk disagrees and says there's no reason why possession would not be reviewable.

    So I guess we will have to wait for the official explanation, which the NFL has promised.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    If you can't review possession then why do we even have reviews?

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  15. #86
    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Story on ESPN now that Green Bay losing shifted $250 million at the sports books in Vegas. Hey NFL, your refs just cost the mob a quater million. That can only be good for them.

    [edit]Actually now that I think about it, the refs probably MADE Vegas a quarter million. Most of the people that lost were probably betting on Green Bay to cover.[/edit]
    Last edited by travmil; 09-25-2012 at 11:51 AM.

  16. #87
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Josh Sitten is speaking out honestly on Rome, with no regard for fines at all...got to give him credit, i doubt he is very highly paid (I've never heard of the guy before this)...



    I was proud of Brees speaking out on Monday on SVP, too, (although he definitely has the $ to pay the fine).

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Interesting point I read in an article today, that since the Packers don't have one central owner to rattle the NFL's cage over this, it's just about the best team Goodell could have hoped to get screwed over in terms of actually feeling pressure from something like a lawsuit.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  18. #89
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    I'm done. It won't mean much because I rarely go to games or buy NFL merchandise, but I'm not going to watch any more games on TV until the real refs are back.

  19. #90

    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dab View Post
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    I'm done. It won't mean much because I rarely go to games or buy NFL merchandise, but I'm not going to watch any more games on TV until the real refs are back.
    Yes you will. That's the 1 thing the NFL has going for it. Fans will still attend, watch and follow the games the same way they do now.

  20. #91
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    These games still count in the standings. Of course we'll tune in to watch our team then get pissed off all over again next Sunday and Monday.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  22. #92
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    This is too funny. Can't watch any major sports programs today because of the white knuckled tantrums on every single one. And the best part is, all this outrage and indignation is over a call that the replacement refs actually managed to get right. Well, except the push off, which there is a 0% chance the regular refs would have called. In fact, despite all their faults, the one thing I have respected about the replacements is that they actually call offensive PI more than once a season. People have been waiting since week 1 for these guys to blow a call and cost a team the game. I guess they got tired of waiting, so they are going to use this as a "close enough" and start the rants they have been practicing for a month now. Add in the echo chamber effect of the internet, and we are now sitting at defcon dumb.

    Edit:
    This entire thing reminds me of the Tom Brady tuck game. No matter how many times the rules were trotted out showing the correct call had been made, fans and journalists raged and cried. The replacement refs just get to be the sacrificial lamb on this one instead.
    Last edited by Wage; 09-25-2012 at 06:41 PM. Reason: Further thoughts

  23. #93
    I have a Member xBulletproof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    And the best part is, all this outrage and indignation is over a call that the replacement refs actually managed to get right. .
    Uh, no they didn't. Not even close.

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  25. #94
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    While I agree and have the same observation as it pertains to offensive pass interference, the replacement refs do not have control of the games and are overmatched.

    Now I know that everyone thinks my team gets its share of the calls, and there is something to that perception. I get that. And I also get pissed off at the regular refs every week - whether Ben's getting hit low or an offensive player pushes off or Harrison is being held (nearly. every. play.) or our defensive players get picked on for things that are difficult to avoid at full speed. But with the regular officials, when there's a blown call on one play you expect that to be the end of it. With the replacement refs, you just start watching for the snowball to grow in size until its an avalanche. The next play is worse and then the next play is even worse. After the refs butchered the pass interference call against Baltimore in the I-hate-both-teams-matchup-of-the-year Sunday night, once the crowd started the "manure" chant as Al Michaels delicately called it, what happened? The Ravens got away with a pushoff on nearly every remaining offensive play they ran, and then I'm still not sure that game winning kick was between the uprights. But the cowards might have well signaled the field goal was "good" as soon as the Ravens snapped the ball.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  26. #95

    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    Well, except the push off, which there is a 0% chance the regular refs would have called.
    yes, they have called that before.

    One example, 1998, NE vs. Buffalo. Ironically the NE coach was Pete Carroll. Offensive PI was called on the last second Drew Bledsoe pass.

    that they actually call offensive PI more than once a season.
    Yes, they realize the game is out of hand so they decide to randomly throw some flags for PI, whether it occurs or not, missing obvious ones and flagging some where there was not even contact!

    People have been waiting since week 1 for these guys to blow a call and cost a team the game.
    You mean, waiting for them to blow the last call of a game. Important difference. Many game outcomes have been affected already by multiple bad calls that happened to not be the last call of the game.

    This entire thing reminds me of the Tom Brady tuck game. No matter how many times the rules were trotted out showing the correct call had been made, fans and journalists raged and cried.
    You might be surprised that most Patriots fans, me included, think has always been a horsecrap rule. I take it you agree. Bill Polian and the competition committee disagree with you and me.

    The tuck rule has also been repeatedly reviewed and kept on the books, unfortunately. The argument as I understand it is that the refs shouldn't have to judge the intent of the QB. That is, if the QB starts to pass (even if it's a pump fake) he is in the act of attempting a pass, and is so until he has again the ball tucked away.

    Horsecrap rule, I think. Officials are not allowed to ignore horsecrap rules, though.

    The outcome of that play was called by the rules then, was called by the rules before then, and has been called by the rules many many times since then. Mike Pereira estimates that it has been called on average 10-15 times per year, every year.

    link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...1401828_2.html

    Funny though, Pereira now thinks it's time to change the rule, too, but admits " Every time we have tried to rewrite it, what we come up with was too difficult to officiate."

    http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...rts-tuck-rule/
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 09-25-2012 at 07:24 PM.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wage View Post
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    This is too funny. Can't watch any major sports programs today because of the white knuckled tantrums on every single one. And the best part is, all this outrage and indignation is over a call that the replacement refs actually managed to get right. Well, except the push off, which there is a 0% chance the regular refs would have called. In fact, despite all their faults, the one thing I have respected about the replacements is that they actually call offensive PI more than once a season. People have been waiting since week 1 for these guys to blow a call and cost a team the game. I guess they got tired of waiting, so they are going to use this as a "close enough" and start the rants they have been practicing for a month now. Add in the echo chamber effect of the internet, and we are now sitting at defcon dumb.

    Edit:
    This entire thing reminds me of the Tom Brady tuck game. No matter how many times the rules were trotted out showing the correct call had been made, fans and journalists raged and cried. The replacement refs just get to be the sacrificial lamb on this one instead.

  28. #97
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Uh, no they didn't. Not even close.
    Uh, yes they did.

  29. #98
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    yes, they have called that before.

    One example, 1998, NE vs. Buffalo. Ironically the NE coach was Pete Carroll. Offensive PI was called on the last second Drew Bledsoe pass.
    You are going to go back 14 years to find evidence that the refs would normaly make the call? Either way, no one can know for certain, but do you honestly believe that the normal refs blow the offensive PI whistle there? And what is the argument at this point so we dont start moving the goalposts? Is it that it was a touchdown, or that they should have called PI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Yes, they realize the game is out of hand so they decide to randomly throw some flags for PI, whether it occurs or not, missing obvious ones and flagging some where there was not even contact!
    I've seen both good calls and bad calls from the replacements on PI. I'm not saying the guys are doing a good job, just that the outrage over this particular call is nonsense. And honestly, as a former corner, it is refreshing to see that offensive PI is still illegal in the NFL, even if sporadically.



    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    You mean, waiting for them to blow the last call of a game. Important difference. Many game outcomes have been affected already by multiple bad calls that happened to not be the last call of the game.
    This is different than every other year how? Every single year blown calls alter the outcome of games, and every year we complain. Again, I'm not even defending the replacements, just pointing out the lunacy of this particular rant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    You might be surprised that most Patriots fans, me included, think has always been a horsecrap rule. I take it you agree. Bill Polian and the competition committee disagree with you and me.

    The tuck rule has also been repeatedly reviewed and kept on the books, unfortunately. The argument as I understand it is that the refs shouldn't have to judge the intent of the QB. That is, if the QB starts to pass (even if it's a pump fake) he is in the act of attempting a pass, and is so until he has again the ball tucked away.

    Horsecrap rule, I think. Officials are not allowed to ignore horsecrap rules, though.

    The outcome of that play was called by the rules then, was called by the rules before then, and has been called by the rules many many times since then. Mike Pereira estimates that it has been called on average 10-15 times per year, every year.

    link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...1401828_2.html

    Funny though, Pereira now thinks it's time to change the rule, too, but admits " Every time we have tried to rewrite it, what we come up with was too difficult to officiate."

    http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...rts-tuck-rule/
    I think you are missing my point on the tuck rule. Whether or not I like a rule has absolutely no bearing on how the officials should call the rule. Call the rule as it is written, that's the job of an official. If it's a bad rule, let them review it at the end of the year.


    And Vapacersfan, thanks for showing that picture. It shows exactly how everyone is missing point. That photo shows what was going on AFTER the play was over. Tate could be out getting a hotdog in that picture and it would not change the fact that it was a touchdown. Tate had both feet down, with both hands on the ball before everyone went to the pile. The play stops that instant. Touchdown. There is a reason the defense can not cause a fumble in their own endzone. It's because the play ceases the split second that the offense scores the touchdown. What Jennings does with the ball after that means absolutely nothing.

    It's hard to find a good still photo, but at this point the play is over. Tate has the football in his hands with both feet down. The play ends this instant.
    Last edited by Wage; 09-25-2012 at 11:40 PM. Reason: Added Photo

  30. #99
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    ^ I think I can help clear this up. Tate is actually the guy in the blue uniform.

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  32. #100
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Wage, you're not gonna find much support for that theory, we all have eyes and minds. Had the refs seen and made the correct call 1) for pass interference prior to the catch, and then 2) not hastily called it a touchdown 2 seconds later without consultuing one another (when both refs called opposite of each other), the play likely would have been a lot easier to review and correct. Two massive ref mistakes. And that is what everyone is in an uproar about. Whether or not Tate caught the ball with his pinky isn't the real issue. It was the two points I just listed. They missed pass interference, and they hastily called touchdown on the field without consultation.

    And Tate did not catch the ball --- his hand (looks like the back of it), came into contact with a ball that a defender actually caught. If the "letter of the law" constitutes that as a catch, then by damn, the law needs to be revisited. No one in their right mind, rules be damned, considered that a true catch by Tate. The spirit of the game was assaulted last night, and then the powers that be are trying to wave their Jedi hands and tell us "this is not an interception, it is a catch by Golden Tate, just take our word for it." Problem is.... we're not that stupid, Goodell.

    They claimed the play wasn't conclusive. ********. Watch it. Jennings catches the damn ball. They called it a touchdown on review because they didn't want to get lynched by the Seattle crowd, and you KNOW it would've gotten real ugly, because that entire stadium was whipped into a frenzy by that point. Green Bay had already left the field. The refs didn't even know what to do about the extra point. The entire fiasco was a cluster****, all caused by the ref's inability to do their jobs correctly and also their inability to control the situation.

    And on the topic of reviews, why are some plays not reviewable? That's the stupidest thing I've never understood. All plays should be reviewable. All of them.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 09-26-2012 at 12:22 AM.
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