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Thread: Ref'ing thread

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Someone is going to be seriously hurt if they don't at least start making these calls correctly at the least.
    Going to? Does Darius Heyward-Bey not count?
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Even when these officials are getting calls right, it often takes them an obscene amount of time to figure out what happened and how they are going to say it. This kills the pace of a game that was already long even when it was being called efficiently. This happened last week in the Broncos-Falcons game, happened in our game yesterday, and happened in New England-Baltimore last night. Wasn't Belichick complaining about it? It's probably happened in almost every game, but those are just the ones I can think of that I've seen firsthand.

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Going to? Does Darius Heyward-Bey not count?
    Sorry, yes he counts clearly, but I was in QB mode, because it seems that defenses have realized it is essentially open season right now on any QB who runs out of the pocket.

    Not to minimalize what happened to DHB but I was glad to see his thumbs up so I'm guessing it just didn't stick in my head. And to be fair he's not the first player ever even under good circumstances to get hurt badly when he goes over the middle.

    I am saying that at some point, maybe next week, a sliding QB is going to get knocked the **** out by a defender on a late hit and then there is going to be a major issue. That is going to be the matchstick that lights the kindling IMO. Because if I was an offensive lineman and I saw my sliding QB getting destroyed the way Luck, RGIII, Matt Ryan, Vick, etc. have been, I would be pissed. The first time a QB doesn't get up from one of those hits, I predict we are going to see an incident.

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Even when these officials are getting calls right, it often takes them an obscene amount of time to figure out what happened and how they are going to say it. This kills the pace of a game that was already long even when it was being called efficiently. This happened last week in the Broncos-Falcons game, happened in our game yesterday, and happened in New England-Baltimore last night. Wasn't Belichick complaining about it? It's probably happened in almost every game, but those are just the ones I can think of that I've seen firsthand.
    Um, yesterday during the Chiefs/Saints game, there was a "fumble" by the Chiefs (in quotes because anyone with eyes could see he was clearly down) that was returned for a TD, and the refs reviewed it, but before they reviewed they didn't even clarify what the call was on the field. They just said, the play is going to be reviewed. That's it.

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Dakich has been unbearable about this. Normally I like him, but he is taking the stance that the officiating isn't that bad just to be the guy who plays the other side and it is absolutely the most annoying thing in the world.
    I agree, but he may change his mind after this past weekend. The refs around the league just took it to another level of terrible.
    .

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    With all due respect, I think long-time NFL fans can tell the difference between an ill-timed unfortunate judgement call and sheer incompetence, Since86.
    Does it really matter? If a ref screws up, the reason as to why the screw up is of little consequence. Whether it's because they have crappy judgement or they're just lost, the outcome is the same. Crappy calls.


    And that's my point. When regular NFL referees are on the sidelines, there are still constant complaints about the calls or lack of calls and how the influence the outcome of the game. When replacement officials are on the sidelines, there is constant complaints that they don't know the rules and how it influences the game.

    At the end of the day, the constant is that people just like to *****.

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    For the record, I have complained about game-altering officiating, meaning multiple obviously wrong calls based solely on either corruption or incompetence, on precisely two occasions in the past 40 years as a sports fan:

    The 1992 Final Four, Duke over Indiana, 81-78, aka "The Ted Valentine game"
    The 2012 NFL season (as a whole).

    There have been a few other isolated instances of a single awful, unexplained, game-changing bad call (i.e., the LJ 4-point play) that I have railed on, but there are only these two examples I have followed personally of consistent, obvious, and blatantly bad or corrupt officiating.

    I'm not a boxing fan or the list would no doubt be longer, but that's my two item list in its entirety.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Did we really need to get a 1992 final four reference in here....I need to go wash out my eyes with salt water now.

    I would agree with you Slick, though I may add the 4 point play to your list.

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Dakich has been unbearable about this. Normally I like him, but he is taking the stance that the officiating isn't that bad just to be the guy who plays the other side and it is absolutely the most annoying thing in the world.
    Before last week's MNF and this weekend I would have been on board with Dakich. Other than a few overblown incidents, I thought the reffing wasn't as bad as made out to be. But this weekend.... inexcusable.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Um, yesterday during the Chiefs/Saints game, there was a "fumble" by the Chiefs (in quotes because anyone with eyes could see he was clearly down) that was returned for a TD, and the refs reviewed it, but before they reviewed they didn't even clarify what the call was on the field. They just said, the play is going to be reviewed. That's it.

    Seems like an example that happens regularly with actual NFL referees.

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Seems like an example that happens regularly with actual NFL referees.
    I have never seen an actual NFL referee not clearly state what the play was called on the field.

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Did we really need to get a 1992 final four reference in here....I need to go wash out my eyes with salt water now.

    I would agree with you Slick, though I may add the 4 point play to your list.
    The 4 point play bothered me just as much, and I thought of making it item 3, but in the end it was one call and was not a whole string of bad calls where before, during, and after the fact as a fan you thought "Just wait, we are about to get screwed here... wait for it... yes we just got screwed... now we will get screwed all over again...yes, there it is...

    It was a Hiroshima of a call, though.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yeah, no player/coach/fan ever complains about real NFL refs...

    I understand there are issues with referees, but people just go off and pretend like officiating is something that people just don't simply ***** about all the time anyways. And before I get the whole "Yeah, but not at this level" reasoning, let me remind you the Steelers-Seahawks SB.

    No one is perfect. Even the best make mistakes. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have each thrown plenty of interceptions over the course of their long careers, but that doesn't change the fact that they have been superior talents to virtually everyone else that played in their era. That's the same case with the regular officials. Sure they would screw up, but in no way were they as incompetent as these replacement officials. Just like Peyton throwing a pick doesn't mean that he's all of the sudden Rex Grossman.

    The NFL is the most superior brand of football in the entire world. The regular officials had spent years reffing and watching this game. There is no way that some guys who reffed in a bunch of joke leagues could come in and ref as well as the guys who had been doing this for years. They are completely incompetent compared to the real refs.

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yeah, no player/coach/fan ever complains about real NFL refs...

    I understand there are issues with referees, but people just go off and pretend like officiating is something that people just don't simply ***** about all the time anyways. And before I get the whole "Yeah, but not at this level" reasoning, let me remind you the Steelers-Seahawks SB.
    Let me remind you that the actual officiating of that game wasn't as bad as Madden made it out to be. Mistakes were made on the field, yes. And both teams benefitted from those mistakes. Mistakes were made in the broadcast booth about some of the correct calls on the field, too, creating a bias. The guy choosing which angles of the replays to be shown wasn't very good either.

    The call on Hasselback during the INT return was awful. Giving Ben a TD was a play that couldn't be overturned (no matter what the onfield call would have been) but at least a technical procedure change came from that and the NFL now how permanent cameras along the same plane as the goal line. You can't tell if a player broke the plane of the endzone from a camera stationed near midfield. The geometry just doesn't work. The replay was inconclusively useless. The holding penatly was one of the worst replays of Madden's career, as you can see the RT - who the penalty was called upon - spinning Clark Hagans around while Madden circled the LT and said, "there's no hold here". Duh. But that doesn't make the call on the field wrong.

    You knew I was going to do it. Didn't want to disappoint.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I have never seen an actual NFL referee not clearly state what the play was called on the field.
    I've seen/heard plenty of NFL officials screw up their explanation of reviews. How they screw up the explanation really doesn't matter, IMHO, but rather that both replacement officials and NFL officials both screw it up from time to time.

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I've seen/heard plenty of NFL officials screw up their explanation of reviews. How they screw up the explanation really doesn't matter, IMHO, but rather that both replacement officials and NFL officials both screw it up from time to time.
    I'm pretty sure you are always supposed to state what the call is on the field though before a review occurs. That did not happen on this play. It was unclear as to who was even challenging it.

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Let me remind you that the actual officiating of that game wasn't as bad as Madden made it out to be. Mistakes were made on the field, yes. And both teams benefitted from those mistakes. Mistakes were made in the broadcast booth about some of the correct calls on the field, tpp, creating a bias. The guy choosing which angles of the replays to be shown wasn't very good either.

    The call on Hasselback during the INT return was awful. Giving Ben a TD was a play that couldn't be overturned (no matter what the onfield call would have been) but at least a technical procedure change came from that and the NFL now how permanent cameras along the same plane as the goal line. You can't tell if a player broke the plane of the endzone from a camera stationed near midfield. The geometry just doesn't work. The replay was inconclusively useless. The holding penatly was one of the worst replays of Madden's career, as you can see the RT - who the penalty was called upon - spinning Clark Hagans around while Madden circled the LT and said, "there's no hold here". Duh. But that doesn't make the call on the field wrong.

    You knew I was going to do it. Didn't want to disappoint.
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Seems like an example that happens regularly with actual NFL referees.
    How often have regular NFL referees give a coach extra replay challenges... TWICE?

    How many times have regular referees, to your recollection, marked off a 15 yard penalty with a 27 yard walk-off on a game-winning drive? (Tennessee game yesterday).
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...winning-drive/

    These types of things are far far beyond the realm of unfortunately timed bad judgement calls.

    If this continues, the season as a whole deserves an asterisk, as a season that was not fairly decided on the field of play.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    The 1992 Final Four, Duke over Indiana, 81-78, aka "The Ted Valentine game"
    Which brings up this horrible memory,

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Packer
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    "Every time Indiana drives the ball its a charge. These officials are doing a great job with consistency."
    Wanted to punch him through my television. I'm not sure he ever broadcasted another game in Bloomington after that, and for good reason.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Which brings up this horrible memory,



    Wanted to punch him through my television. I'm not sure he ever broadcasted another game in Bloomington after that, and for good reason.
    This thread now needs to be doused in gasoline and lit on fire.

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  29. #46
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    No one is perfect. Even the best make mistakes. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have each thrown plenty of interceptions over the course of their long careers, but that doesn't change the fact that they have been superior talents to virtually everyone else that played in their era. That's the same case with the regular officials. Sure they would screw up, but in no way were they as incompetent as these replacement officials. Just like Peyton throwing a pick doesn't mean that he's all of the sudden Rex Grossman.

    The NFL is the most superior brand of football in the entire world. The regular officials had spent years reffing and watching this game. There is no way that some guys who reffed in a bunch of joke leagues could come in and ref as well as the guys who had been doing this for years. They are completely incompetent compared to the real refs.
    And how god awful would it be to listen to people react to an INT by Cutler and then try to argue that if Manning or Brady were the QB that the INT wouldn't have happened?

    That's my point. Some mistakes should be expected, because it comes with the territory. When mistakes do happen, they are overblown and talked about indepth to the point that it becomes the belief that these problems wouldn't be around with regular officials. These types of criticisms happen with regular officials, so it merely is a part of the game. These complaints aren't any new complaints. They happen with replacement officials and they happen with regular officials.

    When these mistakes do happen, the officials should get a little bit of slack instead of a noose.

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    If this continues, the season as a whole deserves an asterisk, as a season that was not fairly decided on the field of play.
    As a Colts fan that has watched the Pats get by with illegal contact after 5yds, to the point where they're grabbing and holding jerseys so the receiver can't get seperation, I think that officials with crappy judgement unfair decide outcomes of games. They don't officiate the game, by the rules, and it creates an unfair advantage for the defense.

    Why should those games not get asterisks? We're trying to pick and choose which mistakes are okay and which mistakes are unfair, instead of just labeling them both mistakes and moving forward.

  32. #48

    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    The Steelers-Seahawks Super Bowl, to this unbiased viewer who was pulling for the underdog Seahawks, consisted of a whole assortment of close calls that seemingly all favored the Steelers and made you think "Gee, I want to see that replay"

    Then each and every time I would see the replay and I would think "I guess they got it right, or... wow, you know, I can't really tell"

    In the end I thought the Steelers were extremely fortunate, not to benefit from obviously bad officiating, but from having so many calls in their favor that could have gone the other way, since the video evidence would not have supported an overturn in either direction (if it were in fact reviewable).

    Just my 2 cents.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    I asked Jay's_Wife@Section222 last night, after watching the Steelers-Raiders then Ravens-Patriots if the league might toss out the records with these replacement refs and let everyone start over 0-0?

    Of course they won't, they used replacement players during that season back in the '80's to determine who made the playoffs.

    But this season has absolutely no feel to it right now, in part because of the officiating.

    SF getting their butts whipped by Minnesota while Detroit struggles with Tennessee? I know "any given Sunday" but there's just a bunch of weird stuff going on this season, including a lot of teams already battling the injury bug. Ben gets a low hit - below his knee that goes uncalled and then there was the huge full-speed collision in the endzone that was uncalled. They're bad for everybody, no one team can really claim to be the victim, but they're just plain bad.

    Maybe the Ravens could claim to be victims, over weeks #2 and #3, but then the last two minutes of last night's push-off errrrr... I mean game... happened. So I think it balanced out.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  34. #50
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    Default Re: Ref'ing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Going to? Does Darius Heyward-Bey not count?
    I don't know the officials could have done anything to prevent that. Carson was brilliant in the second half but on that play - throwing that pass behind him really put him in harms way. If Carson puts it where he catches it in stride there probably isn't such a violent football collision.

    Should a flag have been thrown? Probably. But it was also a football play with unfortunate consequences. Not sure the officiating "caused" that injury. You had three guys going full speed to a pass that was a little bit off its intended target. As Fouts said, "That's a risk we all signed up for."
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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