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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

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  • #76
    Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

    Originally posted by BillS View Post
    So you really don't think Hibbert will make any major improvements? Even if an offense is in place that can get him the ball more often?

    Barring injuries, 5th in the East is very low, and 8th makes no sense at all.
    Hibbert has made improvements, how much room can there be left. Same with every starter but Paul George. I see Miami, Boston, NY, Brooklyn and Philly at least equal to or better than the Pacers and a couple of others made improvements too. I don't look for 8th either unless a starter is injured for some length of time....

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    • #77
      Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

      Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
      and the Pacers still have the same starters
      And that's exactly what is keeping our hopes up. Those starters were good enough to be the best 5 man unit in the league last season
      Originally posted by IrishPacer
      Empty vessels make the most noise.

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

        Originally posted by Nuntius View Post
        And that's exactly what is keeping our hopes up. Those starters were good enough to be the best 5 man unit in the league last season
        What? First of all, your five men have to be better than Miami's two men and they aren't. They aren't as good as Boston's best three players. Where do people get this crap that the Pacers have the best five man unit in the League? They one won playoff series against Orlando and they would not have won that if Howard had played. It is great to be optimistic. It is just silly to make such absurd statements....

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

          Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
          Hibbert has made improvements, how much room can there be left. Same with every starter but Paul George. I see Miami, Boston, NY, Brooklyn and Philly at least equal to or better than the Pacers and a couple of others made improvements too. I don't look for 8th either unless a starter is injured for some length of time....
          I only really disagree with you about Philly.

          Collins is a great coach (he wears on players like Brown & Skiles do but he's still knew enough there that this isn't an issue yet) but I think Bynum is a crap shoot. Yes when he plays he's very very good but Andrew has both injury issues & frankly some dedication issues & I wonder how he will do when he is not on one of the top teams in the league. Now he could very well rise to the challenge & excell but there is also the chance he could just lose interest & stagnate or even possibly fade.

          I don't think they made enough other improvements to stay in the group. But time will tell.

          I know a lot of people are going to disagree about N.Y. but I tend to think that with Woodson on board for the full season they will have a far better record than what they had last season.

          Boston I think you over rate but I don't disagree that they are in the conversation as well.

          Miami is a given.

          The Nets are riddle so far. On paper they look to be either our equal or our superior but we do have to see how the talent meshes together. Just can't say for sure here.

          I think people are writing the Bulls off to soon. Sure they aren't going to be top3 or even top 5 but all they have to do is be top 8 and then Rose comes back & they can spoil a lot of plans.

          But the main thing is none of this matters till they tip off the season.


          Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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          • #80
            Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

            Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
            What? First of all, your five men have to be better than Miami's two men and they aren't. They aren't as good as Boston's best three players. Where do people get this crap that the Pacers have the best five man unit in the League? They one won playoff series against Orlando and they would not have won that if Howard had played. It is great to be optimistic. It is just silly to make such absurd statements....
            Our starting unit was better than Miami's starting 5... Our issues mainly came out when Roy was on the bench... Danny's injury was another turning point in the series...

            I know you hate statistics... But they proved this point several times in the offseason discussions...

            I will give you that Miami's starters were often better than ours in the 4th Qs where it really counts... But the other three Qs routinely belonged to our starters when they were on the floor together...

            And I agree that Miami, New York, Brooklyn, Boston, and Philly COULD all be at our level or better next year... But they COULD also all end up worse too (sans Miami barring a severe injury to LeBron...) And you tend to leave that 2nd part out...
            Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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            • #81
              Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

              Originally posted by J7F View Post
              Our starting unit was better than Miami's starting 5
              At a certain level I disagree with this.

              As a unit our starting 5 scored better than Miami's starting 5 when everyone was fresh. However, our starting 5 was not capable of keeping up with Miami's top 2 starters in the extended minutes of a playoff series. Because of this, I would give the nod to Miami even given the head-to-head statistics - Miami's starters were better because they had the stamina to be able to take advantage of the mismatches when our starters had to rest.

              That said, if we have improved the bench to where they can hold the line or even lose only 50% of the ground they lost last year, it means our starters are in position to get the rest they need and come out stronger at the end of the game.

              Basically, for LBJ and DWade to put the team on their shoulders they have to be within reach. If the Pacers' bench can keep them at the ragged edge of "in the game", we have a chance.

              Overall, though, we do NOT have to be better than Miami in order to be a top-3 in the East. Why we keep focusing on Miami during the discussion of anything other than actually winning the East is beyond me. We could be 1 in the Central and 3rd in the East by just being better than Philly, NY, and NJ - none of which is guaranteed but neither are they somehow out of the question.
              BillS

              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

                Originally posted by J7F View Post
                Our starting unit was better than Miami's starting 5... Our issues mainly came out when Roy was on the bench... Danny's injury was another turning point in the series...

                I know you hate statistics... But they proved this point several times in the offseason discussions...

                I will give you that Miami's starters were often better than ours in the 4th Qs where it really counts... But the other three Qs routinely belonged to our starters when they were on the floor together...

                And I agree that Miami, New York, Brooklyn, Boston, and Philly COULD all be at our level or better next year... But they COULD also all end up worse too (sans Miami barring a severe injury to LeBron...) And you tend to leave that 2nd part out...
                When have one, two or three players better than your entire starting five, you do not have a great starting unit. I don't care what the stats say. As soon as playoff time comes around and the superstars start logging heavy minutes, the Pacers will bite the dust with this team quickly. The team is designed for a long regular season, not the playoffs....

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

                  Originally posted by Peck View Post
                  I only really disagree with you about Philly.

                  Collins is a great coach (he wears on players like Brown & Skiles do but he's still knew enough there that this isn't an issue yet) but I think Bynum is a crap shoot. Yes when he plays he's very very good but Andrew has both injury issues & frankly some dedication issues & I wonder how he will do when he is not on one of the top teams in the league. Now he could very well rise to the challenge & excell but there is also the chance he could just lose interest & stagnate or even possibly fade.

                  I don't think they made enough other improvements to stay in the group. But time will tell.

                  I know a lot of people are going to disagree about N.Y. but I tend to think that with Woodson on board for the full season they will have a far better record than what they had last season.

                  Boston I think you over rate but I don't disagree that they are in the conversation as well.

                  Miami is a given.

                  The Nets are riddle so far. On paper they look to be either our equal or our superior but we do have to see how the talent meshes together. Just can't say for sure here.

                  I think people are writing the Bulls off to soon. Sure they aren't going to be top3 or even top 5 but all they have to do is be top 8 and then Rose comes back & they can spoil a lot of plans.

                  But the main thing is none of this matters till they tip off the season.
                  Bynum is easily the best center in the east by a long way. I agree with you about Chicago and that could move the Pacers even further down the list.....

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

                    Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
                    When have one, two or three players better than your entire starting five, you do not have a great starting unit. I don't care what the stats say. As soon as playoff time comes around and the superstars start logging heavy minutes, the Pacers will bite the dust with this team quickly. The team is designed for a long regular season, not the playoffs....
                    And I disagree somewhat with this. Yeah, when you get up to 3 players better then you are pretty close to being a better starting 5 without any other adjustments needing to be made, but when you only have one or even 2 superstars it doesn't automatically follow it is a better starting 5. If your starting 5 can make up for what those 2 superstars can do, then you have a better starting 5. It isn't about head-to-head comparisons, it's about how well the team does together. If it was about head-to-head then Miami would be working on their third ring this year and everyone else might as well take the season off.

                    I submit that the ability of superstars to log additional minutes varies by the superstar and by how much they have to work against the opponent's bench. Even superstars get fatigued, and I think the ability of LBJ and DWade to take over was as much to our offense failing to make them work off the ball as it was due to them being so superior that no one could ever hope to stop them.

                    In other words, there's more to the game than just talent. It's harder to overcome an opponent with that talent, but it can be done.
                    BillS

                    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

                      I'm in the middle between Bill and Nuntius. Bill is right to say they couldn't run the minutes with Miami, but on the other hand there is something to be said about the starting 5 being better than the starting 5 of other teams (minus the minutes limits). It's not like the starting 5 barely plays, just not as much as guys like James and Wade.

                      And Miami's bench was and remains vulnerable which only forces more minutes onto James and Wade.


                      I'm cool on the Pacers chances to improve to the team to beat level, but I do love the assembly of balanced pieces because if you have that and have them working well as a unit it's unstoppable. Clicking as a 5 could really make a difference, and I don't think they really did that last year. It was more like a rotation of which of the 5 would be doing something next.

                      More 3-4 man interactive plays this year could really change the East landscape. That's why I look to Vogel as the #1 "needs to improve" element, more than any other player. I like him, but hopefully he's bringing more development than anyone to the table. That would work wonders.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

                        Plus with our deep stock of talent, it does open our trading doors pretty wide, let's say we're sitting around the 4 seed come Feb and insert Superstar X becomes available (it happens every year), we do have a pretty good collection of pieces to make a run at that type of person now, IMO.


                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

                          Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
                          What? First of all, your five men have to be better than Miami's two men and they aren't. They aren't as good as Boston's best three players. Where do people get this crap that the Pacers have the best five man unit in the League? They one won playoff series against Orlando and they would not have won that if Howard had played. It is great to be optimistic. It is just silly to make such absurd statements....
                          Advanced statistics say so:

                          http://basketballvalue.com/index.php

                          Also:

                          Last edited by Nuntius; 09-26-2012, 01:42 PM.
                          Originally posted by IrishPacer
                          Empty vessels make the most noise.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

                            [QUOTE=Nuntius;1503808]Advanced statistics say so:

                            Then you have an example to show just how silly statistics can be. Your statistical top starting five can't play with many teams in the league. That is the power of superstars, they trump balanced teams just about every time..... If you have watching the NBA for a number of years you should already know this.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

                              Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                              Plus with our deep stock of talent, it does open our trading doors pretty wide, let's say we're sitting around the 4 seed come Feb and insert Superstar X becomes available (it happens every year), we do have a pretty good collection of pieces to make a run at that type of person now, IMO.
                              How often does a superstar really become available in a trade for the Pacers?

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Why the Pacers will win the NBA Championship next year

                                Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
                                Then you have an example to show just how silly statistics can be. Your statistical top starting five can't play with many teams in the league. That is the power of superstars, they trump balanced teams just about every time..... If you have watching the NBA for a number of years you should already know this.
                                You have every right to disagree with the statistics. Personally, I certainly believe that statistics don't tell the whole story.

                                But don't act surprised when people express an opinion that is backed up by statistics. It's not a matter of optimism, homerism or whatever. It's just people stating the facts. Cause statistics are facts. Opinions are not facts

                                I'm not trying to say that we're better than the Heat. What I'm trying to say is that this starting 5 that you seem to consider a minus since "it's still the same" is actually one of the best in the league. That's all.
                                Originally posted by IrishPacer
                                Empty vessels make the most noise.

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