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Thread: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I'd love for it to be Tyler Hansbrough, but that doesn't seem very likely. I'm going to go with Paul George. In any case, it's more important for Paul to improve than Tyler.
    Don't underestimate what an improved Hansbrough could do for this team. Not having a post player who could consistently score off the bench was the biggest problem with the bench last season, and if Tyler was able to score consistently we would have had as good of a bench as everyone thought we did going into the season. With that kind of a bench we most likely would have been competing for the number 1 or 2 seed instead of striving for the number 3.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    West.

    He playing amazing during the end of the season and playoffs. Now hes finally healthy again, and has a full training camp - I can see him having a great season
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



  3. #28
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    I guess my thing for Tyler is this.... he goes back to NC in the off-seasons and so does David West. Why aren't they working out together? They literally live a short distance apart on the outskirts of Raleigh, NC. Maybe they do and I don't know. But there is no way David West doesn't teach Tyler these things if they are working out together. Why hasn't Tyler made obvious changes to his game in the off-seasons? Is he too busy playing against old NC players that are no longer in the league? Is he too busy pimping UNC co-eds? (I would be too, but I am not a professional basketball player). I just don't understand why we haven't seen Tyler as one of the first people back to training camp. It seems like he doesn't even like his teammates or something.

    I think Hill will have the biggest imapct for us with improvement. He is money from deep, but if he improves his handles and our playbook improves, he should be the one that literally can improve our whole offense. I think ball movement is the single biggest thing we can improve on as a team and it all starts with Hill. I think Hill will have the biggest impact on our team with his improvement, but not necessarily the biggest improvement overall.

    I think Hibbert's conditioning is a major area of improvement as well. A few more minutes per game from him would do wonders for us. We also have a better big rotation that won't make it as glaring of a problem when he goes out either. That is a key improvement area for me as well. For Hibbert, I think him having consistent confirdence would be his biggest area of improvement. Dominate Big Fella!

    David West I just want to see improvement in his mobility. I think his early season issues had a lot to do with his lack of mobility. I think if he improved his flexibility and continued to work on his leg and hip strength, he will have a monster season for us and be much better defensively.

    Granger just needs to be better at picking his spots on offense, and becoming a better defender. The biggest thing he could do for us next year is to bring the defensive intensity and efficiency from the SF position that will improve the team defense overall. Hibbert is a cornerstone on the block, but if we can get a more evenly spread scoring effort from everybody, it will allow Granger to be that much better on the defensive end. Granger and Paul could be a top three defensive pairing on the wing next year. That would be as important to our team as any scoring load he could add. He needs to work out of the post more as well, which I have been saying for years. The dude needs to add that as part of his arsenal and has yet to do it. I think it is because he is scared of going inside the three point line.

    George has pretty much been covered and I think he will be in the running for the MIP award.

    Our bench overall needs to be an improvement. We need more cohesiveness out of this group and there can't be such a drop off when our starters leave the floor. I think we improved our bench significantly this off-season. There needs to be a little less mass subs by Vogel next year as well. I think if our starters play a few more minutes with a couple of the reserves our eight man rotation come playoff time won't be so undermanned. I would like to see less of the five-on five-off type of substitutions. I'd like to see more of the eight or nine man rotations used throughout a game where it is four starters and a sub or three starters and two subs and we don't really see much of having four or five subs on the floor together. I really like the job Vogel is doing and really appreciated his substitution patterns last year, but I just didn't feel like our second unit took advantage of other teams enough by going with all five reserves at once. I can't wait to see what our bench is. The player I am most excited to see what they bring is Orlando Johnson. I think the kid could develop into a solid rotation player for us if he can earn the playing time with his defense.

    Vogel, I think is a very good coach. I think the playbook improvement and general philosophy of how we get the ball into the post will be something he does address. I think his game management will be better, although that is not necessarily a weakness IMO. I really think as this guy gets comfortable, he will be a very good coach long-term.

    The biggest improvement I think we can see as a franchise would be ATTENDANCE! This year we better be in the top third for attendance.
    Last edited by pacergod2; 09-21-2012 at 11:45 AM.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

  4. #29

    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    The guy I expect to have the biggest improvement will be either tyler or lance. Both kinda had down years last year and can improve their games with some minor fixes.

    The guy I would like to be the Pacers MIP is Paul George. He is the guy with the highest ceiling. If he improves the most, he gives the Pacers another really good player to go with Danny, Roy and David. Best case scenario, Paul George becomes good enough to be a year in and year out all star.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    I hope it's Paul but Hill would be my bet. I think we'll see him be more of a point guard this year than he was last year.

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Hill, because I understand that he's going to focus on just one of the guard positions. He's been pretty good as a combo guard playing PG, but I expect him to be a better PG when he focuses on that position.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  7. #32
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Why would Tyler suddenly improve now? The guy has been the same exact player since he was 21.
    I see what you're saying, and I'd normally agree with you - a player that hasn't shown progress in six seasons should not be counted on to improve in his seventh. However, where I would disagree in Tyler's specific case, is that he hasn't really had to improve until now. His accomplishments at UNC made him one of the best college players of all-time and, after a vertigo-shortened rookie year, he had a pretty decent sophomore season. After this past season, he needs to change and improve his game to continue an NBA career. Will he do it? I wouldn't bet on it, but I could see it as a possibility.

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  9. #33

    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    I thought it might be Tyler, but then I ran the idea through my calculator.

    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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  11. #34
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    I thought it might be Tyler, but then I ran the idea through my calculator.


    Love it.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  12. #35

    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    People think Tyler doesn't work hard enough in the off season? He's always struck me as just the opposite. The kinda guy that works very hard and gets the most out of his abilities. We all just wish he had more abilities.

    Here's the reason I want Tyler to make a big improvement this year. After this season he's an RFA while West is a FA. I don't see much chance of us re-signing both of them.

    The ideal situation is for Tyler to blossom so we can let West walk. Then use West's money to extend Tyler, re-sign DJ and have some left over for Paul George the next year.

    I've got my fingers crossed that Tyler takes a big step this year.

  13. #36
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    People think Tyler doesn't work hard enough in the off season? He's always struck me as just the opposite. The kinda guy that works very hard and gets the most out of his abilities. We all just wish he had more abilities.

    Here's the reason I want Tyler to make a big improvement this year. After this season he's an RFA while West is a FA. I don't see much chance of us re-signing both of them.

    The ideal situation is for Tyler to blossom so we can let West walk. Then use West's money to extend Tyler, re-sign DJ and have some left over for Paul George the next year.

    I've got my fingers crossed that Tyler takes a big step this year.
    I never said he doesn't work hard, but rather, he might be working hard toward a misguided direction. It's like working your butt off with no end goal in mind. Why hasn't he started shooting the ball with more arc? Has nobody told him that his jumper is too flat? Ican't imagine they haven't. Has no one told him or shown him how he needs to play effectively given his skill set against better competition than pick-up games that he can dominate? How does that help him? Why does David West have a similar skill set and be 100 times more effective than Tyler? Does Tyler not work on a floater? It would be a perfect shot for him to perfect working down from the high post. He struggles by getting too far under the basket and looking up to the trees that he can't shoot over. I really like Tyler. I love his hustle. I just don't understand how he hasn't worked on the most obvious things that could help his game out. I'm a freaking novice and I see it.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

  14. #37
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    I hope for Tyler to have a breakout too. What I saw last year sort of scared me however... it wasn't a lack of trying or hard work. It was an almost myopic intent of shooting an inaccurate jumper or going 1-on-4 in the paint and very little offensive cohesion, as in kicking the ball out after a rebound or any time really. It was more of a mental thing. He's gotta change his mentality and focus on making the proper play, and also he needs to rebound the ball way better. He's got a good physique for rebounding, and just doesn't utilize it 100%. His focus last year was just not where it should be.

    This coming from a big Hansbrough fan, hell he's my avatar.
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    People think Tyler doesn't work hard enough in the off season? He's always struck me as just the opposite. The kinda guy that works very hard and gets the most out of his abilities. We all just wish he had more abilities.

    Here's the reason I want Tyler to make a big improvement this year. After this season he's an RFA while West is a FA. I don't see much chance of us re-signing both of them.

    The ideal situation is for Tyler to blossom so we can let West walk. Then use West's money to extend Tyler, re-sign DJ and have some left over for Paul George the next year.

    I've got my fingers crossed that Tyler takes a big step this year.
    One more year of West and I think he's going to be stuck to everything in Pacerland like glue, and I mean that in a good way. At this point, his toughness is too important and is currently not duplicated any where else on the roster. So of that money you just spent, you didn't spend any of it on toughness. I'd rather keep David and let all three of those guys walk (I don't really think we'd have to let Paul George walk anyway.)
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  16. #39
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    His effective FG% on jump shots was .408 two seasons ago.

    Obviously significantly better than last year's .326 but not exactly "money".

    He shot it a ton both years so you remember more makes two seasons ago but the rate of makes to misses was still really poor.
    He did shoot a respectable 43% from midrange (16' to 23') in 2010-11, which placed him 2nd on the team behind Dahntay Jones (who shot 49% from that region, but on a small sample size). 3rd on the team if you count West's 47% which he put up in NO.

    Data from this old (but still good) 8p9s post: http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.co...nd-cold-spots/

    Too bad they haven't done a similar post for 2011-12 yet. Hollinger's report mentioned that Roy lead the league in shooting % in the 3' to 15' area (with 47.9%, up from 40.7% the year before), so that would be nice to see.

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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    He did shoot a respectable 43% from midrange (16' to 23') in 2010-11, which placed him 2nd on the team behind Dahntay Jones (who shot 49% from that region, but on a small sample size). 3rd on the team if you count West's 47% which he put up in NO.

    Data from this old (but still good) 8p9s post: http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.co...nd-cold-spots/

    Too bad they haven't done a similar post for 2011-12 yet. Hollinger's report mentioned that Roy lead the league in shooting % in the 3' to 15' area (with 47.9%, up from 40.7% the year before), so that would be nice to see.
    http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.as...12&gp=0&mins=0

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  19. #41
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    There seems to be two kinds of answers here. One where a player improve the most from last year and another where a players improvement is more important to the team.
    So, for the player who's going to improve the most relative to last year, I'm going Tyler.
    For the players whose improvement will be most important to the team, I'm going PG.
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  21. #42

    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    One more year of West and I think he's going to be stuck to everything in Pacerland like glue, and I mean that in a good way. At this point, his toughness is too important and is currently not duplicated any where else on the roster. So of that money you just spent, you didn't spend any of it on toughness. I'd rather keep David and let all three of those guys walk (I don't really think we'd have to let Paul George walk anyway.)
    I like West but at 32 years old I think he's plan B. I'm sure he's going to be motivated to play well this year to earn his last big contract. But I'm going to be rooting for Tyler and Miles to make him expendable.

  22. #43
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    If Tyler Hansbrough is the MIP, the Pacers are in serious trouble!
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  23. #44

    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    If Tyler Hansbrough is the MIP, the opponent is in serious trouble!

    MI though

  24. #45

    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    I think Danny will be back to the ASG game next year. He should've been there this year, but it's hard to do it as a forward if your stats aren't super big or efficient.

    It takes these coach (*cough* intern *cough*) voters more time and especially playoff runs to take notice of improved defense, toughness, leadership and such. See: Aldridge and ZBO.

    I think this year Danny's efficiency will be up a little with better backups / pass first point playing some minutes next to him + added experience for starter teammates.
    Which will make him an All Star again.

  25. #46
    Member LucasRL13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Paul George
    And Paul George will be an All Star this year, believe in me....

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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    I like West but at 32 years old I think he's plan B. I'm sure he's going to be motivated to play well this year to earn his last big contract. But I'm going to be rooting for Tyler and Miles to make him expendable.
    I think the original thought was to get West for 2 years to give Tyler the time needed for improvement.

    But with Tyler having a 4.2M qualifying offer coming up and possible 5M or more expected for his next contract, I just don't see him able to provide enough improvement to warrant that kind of contract. Personally, I see him traded before the end of the year.

    I think the player likely to improve the most is Hill now that he is concentrating on PG only. I agree with what was said earlier about our offense having the best chance for a marked improvement relying on a similar improvement from Hill. Of course, we are all hoping Paul makes big strides.

    I believe West will show improvement physically and with his leadership, that will make him very difficult to part with, regardless of the cost.

    Next summer should prove to be even more interesting than this summer.

  27. #48

    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    I think D.J. Augustin will be the most improved from his time in Charlotte to here, I think with better players around him, even on our bench, he will be the most improved. 2nd place I would give it to Paul George

  28. #49

    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    I don't know about DJ Augustine. He brings nice passing, but he is possibly the worst defensive PG in the game. I think Frank will have a hard time keeping him on the court. The drop off from George Hill defensively will be very noticeable and there will be many problems on who can actually play with DJ because of his man driving right past him straight to the hoop. That will really put Roy and DWest in a tough spot.

    Back to the OT I think we will see George Hill as MIP on the Pacers. He has the most room to grow into the PG role.

  29. #50
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    Default Re: Pacers' Most Improved Player for the 2012/2013 season

    Quote Originally Posted by MvPlumlee View Post
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    If Tyler Hansbrough is the MIP, the opponent is in serious trouble!

    MI though

    The reason I say the Pacers are in trouble if Hans is the MIP is for several reasons.

    Paul should have a lot of improvement and from our side looking in, he should show the most since he has the most potential.

    Hill, without a doubt should have a big year as he will jell with the team in the PG position.

    Hibbert should show improvement in many different area's for many different reasons. (no need to go there).

    West should have a lot of improvement and could see him get back to an All Star state since he should be stronger and mentally trust his knee.

    Green should have his best season as a pro and we all know he has tremendous abilities and he seems to be maturing and figuring out how to play in this league. A full season with the Pacers should catapult him into the playoffs.

    I'll stop here with these players and just say...

    If Hans is MIP this year among this team when Hans has shown absolutely no sign of improvement and actually declined from 2010 to 2011 then what will the other player be like. West would have to be injured or just totally sux for Hans to get enough minutes to even have the opportunity of showing enough improvement to win a MIP. If, Hans just plays a backup role and does improve, then he sure shouldn't deserve MIP over starters or it means the starters didn't improve enough and that will sux. I just don't see Hans as the MIP unless someone sprinkles magic dust on him!

    Added:
    And I'm a huge Hans fan, I would love to see him just play out of his mind and go into a full beast mode with the ability to see his teammates for a dish and to see him drain his 15-18 ft jumper at 50%...Damn, I'd be freakin out!!!
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 09-22-2012 at 04:06 PM.
    .

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