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Thread: Luck so far

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Luck so far

    I disagree about RG3's ceiling, I think it's way lower.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I disagree about RG3's ceiling, I think it's way lower.
    I don't know. Athletically RGIII is a freak, not to say Luck is a bad athlete or anything like that. Their ceilings are higher than just about any QB ever IMO. Vick is maybe the only guy who had a higher ceiling coming into the league, but as we all know ceilings are pretty useless if you don't have the ladder to get there or whatever. Point being RGIII is a world class sprinter with a cannon arm, what makes it ridiculous is that Luck runs the same 40 time as Cam Newton yet most people would probably never put them in the same class athletically. Yet Luck is in that class and is IMO at least, already a better passing QB.

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  3. #28
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    Default Re: Luck so far

    RG3 is faster than Luck, that's about all I'll give him. Either way, what has athleticism done for Vick? RG3 is not even as athletic as Vick. And I'm not saying RG3 is Vick --- I'm saying athleticism only takes someone so far. If Michael Vick can't make it in this league as an elite quarterback (which he isn't) because of his athleticism, then how will RG3? Remember how Vick was sposed to revolutionize the QB position 10 years ago? It didn't happen --- the guy who revolutionized the game was a big tall immobile goofy guy who just so happened to have an Intel processor as a brain. And Vick is most certainly a passing quarterback now, just like RG3... He's already gettin the snot knocked out of him 3 games in and whining about how physical the game is, and that's with a line better than Luck's. Not like Luck isn't a good runner either, he reminds me of Steve Young. He'll get 20-50 yards a game on the ground, and a bunch of crucial first downs. I watch RG3 trying to ram it in from the 1-yard line with his more frail frame (I know he's like 6'2", 220" but he doesn't look "thick", he looks spindly) and I just cringe.... he's gonna get injured.

    And at the end of the day, where I think Luck just absolutely destroys Bob is his mind. Not to say Bob is stupid, he's very smart... but Luck is out of this world smart --- Peyton smart. Damn near photographic, instant-recall smart. He's doing things with reading defenses and making adjustments now that RG3 has never sniffed. Not to say Bob can't get pretty good at it, but I just don't think he'll ever be on Luck's plateau in that category. I also think Luck just has a way larger arsenal of throws at his disposal. RG3 is a good passer, he just can't make all the throws that Luck can.

    I know RG3 gets everyone's hype juices flowing, but when I compare them A to B, Luck just kills RG3 in so many of the crucial quarterbacking categories. It's not even close. RG3 *might* be able to throw the ball farther (I still think that's mostly not justified, he does uncork it more often, but I don't think he can throw it any farther than Luck, watching Luck throw it 75-yards in the air on pro day), and he can definitely run a 40-yard dash faster --- and those are seriously the only two traits that I can say RG3 exceeds Luck in. It's just not enough. WHen it all shakes out a few years from now, it'll be pretty obvious that the RG3 hype was pretty silly.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 09-25-2012 at 12:56 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Honestly, he's going to be a monster by next year IMO.

    Oh I agree that he will be a beast next year. He is already pretty freaking good. But there will be bumps along the way, as there were with Manning. I'm just saying by the time he hits year 5 or so, he will absolutely be shredding teams. By then he will hopefully have a very solid line.

    I keep thinking about that Giants-Panthers game the other night. Eli had all the time in the world to pick them apart, and some no-name back ran for well over 100 yards and picked up two touchdowns. Then the announcers mentioned that everyone on the Giants O-Line had been in the league for at least 7 seasons. No wonder the Giants are so good. I still think they are the team to beat.

    Hopefully Luck gets a line like that someday.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Luck is averaging damn near 300 yards a game. Think about that over 16 games. Almost 4800 yards. Newton set the record, but he got off to a ridiculous start last year, and then trailed off big time, stringing together a bunch of 150 yard games towards the end.

    There are two types of quarterbacks in this league --- quarterbacks who the league figures out... and quarterbacks who figure out the league. Luck is going to figure out this league. This league is figuring out Newton, and they're going to figure out RG3. WHen you watch Newton last year, he got figured out as the season went on, and this year it's even more obvious. It comes down to having the ability to learn and recall.... Luck is just a freak in this category. Peyton is a freak. The Vicks/RG3s/Newtons of the world, they don't have that. It's just what it is. And before someone throws out race --- if you want to know a QB that I think is in the same category as Luck/Peyton --- it's Russell Wilson. He reminds me SO much of Brees, who is another QB without a lot of athleticism but he figured out the league. If you wanted me to say who's going to be the better QB in 5 years between Griffin and Wilson --- I'll go Wilson. And while we're on the topic of QBs I think will figure out this league... I like Tannehill, too. It's too bad the Miami organization might ruin that kid... I think he's got a lot of stuff.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 09-25-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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    Default Re: Luck so far

    RGIII is more athletic than Vick. The numbers pretty well bear that out. Along with being bigger and a more accurate passer. I mean the Vick vs. RGIII passing numbers are just flat out silly, Vick was terrible in college compared to RGIII who was pretty close to Luck.

    You gotta remember, I am not saying RGIII is better than Luck, I'm not even saying he will be better than Luck, I am simply stating that if both players reached their absolute highest levels I think RGIII's is a little higher, but I think Luck is more likely to reach his ceiling. At the end of the day, I think they will both be top 5 QBs in 3 years. And I think we will all forget about Cam Newton.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 09-25-2012 at 01:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    RG3 can't run like Vick. Don't care what the measures say, Vick in his prime was one of the most amazing running creatures on this planet.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I disagree about RG3's ceiling, I think it's way lower.
    Luck has a higher potential than RG3, but Griffin will still be a great QB in the NFL. Luck will win more super bowls though
    "We want Miami"

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    RGIII is more athletic than Vick.
    While it is true that RG3 is more athletic than Vick now, I think Kid Minneapolis was talking about when Vick entered the league.

    A lot of people have been acting like Griffin has the greatest athleticism a QB has ever had, which simply isn't true. Vick ran a 4.33 (to griffin's 4.41) and had a stronger arm.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    RG3 can't run like Vick. Don't care what the measures say, Vick in his prime was one of the most amazing running creatures on this planet.
    But he doesn't need to in order to be a better QB. The less RGIII runs, the better QB he'll be.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    But he doesn't need to in order to be a better QB. The less RGIII runs, the better QB he'll be.
    Here is what separates RG3 from Luck though and their ceilings. If Trader Joe thinks he has a higher ceiling due to his athleticism well that really boils down to running and maybe a better deep ball.

    In the NFL a running QB doesn't get you very far so how much does that really add to his ceiling? IMO not very much and in fact the way RG3 is getting used I see him getting hurt and taking away from his ceiling which is all about learning the game as a passer and not as a runner.

    RG3 is being used as their second running back with 32 attempts in 3 games. Not only that he has been hit 23 times while passing and sacked 9 times. Contrast that to Luck who has had 5 sacks and 15 Qbhits.

    I think everyone thought RG3 would have a better year do to the team he was on but its not looking like that and I still hold on to my prediction that he will miss some games this year as a result of taking all these hits. I think all this factors in on how he learns the game to his best overall strengths and not rely on his legs and as of right now he's being taught to rely on his legs and not just his arm. Ultimately I see that as a crutch that Micheal Vick never learned to stop using and RG3 maybe headed in the same direction albeit as a better passer.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 09-25-2012 at 05:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    I think Luck and RG3 will each get about 5 or 6 wins this season.

    Redskins are 1-2 and here is the remainder of their schedule:

    @ Tampa
    Atlanta
    Minnesota
    @NYG
    @Pitt
    Carolina
    Philly
    @Dallas
    NYG
    Baltimore
    @Cleve
    @Philly
    Dallas.

    That's a pretty brutal schedule. I'd be surprised if they did any better than 5 wins. Everyone acted like RG3 was going to a team that was light years better than the Colts and that he would have a much much much easier year. The Redskins do probably have a better roster than the Colts, but they also have a much tougher schedule. I think there's a very good chance that the Colts win more games. We really needed that win against Jacksonville though. I'd be feeling so good about this team if we were sitting at 2-1 right now.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    The Redskins could never run that wing T tripple option and I would be happy as hell.

    That is all. You can now return to debating RG3 versus Luck

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Merz View Post
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    While it is true that RG3 is more athletic than Vick now, I think Kid Minneapolis was talking about when Vick entered the league.

    A lot of people have been acting like Griffin has the greatest athleticism a QB has ever had, which simply isn't true. Vick ran a 4.33 (to griffin's 4.41) and had a stronger arm.
    Yea, and Vick was a much more dynamic runner, able to make sick stop and go's and change direction and shift and shimmy and all that jazz. One of the most ridiculous open field runners this league has ever seen. RG3 is more of a run really fast straight ahead until someone changes his direction kind of runner. VIck was also just plain faster when he first entered the league, he's the fastest QB this league has ever seen.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    Lol. I thought I predicted 10 wins. 12 is a reach at this point, but I'm still confident in 10
    I see 8-8 with that loss to Jacksonville. I had them at 9-7 before the season
    "We want Miami"

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
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    I see 8-8 with that loss to Jacksonville. I had them at 9-7 before the season
    For them to be 8-8, they have to finish the season 7-6. It ain't gonna happen......
    Last edited by OlBlu; 09-26-2012 at 09:46 AM.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
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    Luck has a higher potential than RG3, but Griffin will still be a great QB in the NFL. Luck will win more super bowls though
    I doubt that either one of them ever gets to a Super Bowl much less win one. The Colts went 36 years between Super Bowl appearances before Manning took them there. Luck is a glorifed Chad Pennington who cannot deliver a deep ball without hanging it up to be intercepted. The defenses will key on this when and if the Colts every become a factor. I think you could get pretty good odds against either of these QBs ever making the Super Bowl if you are so certain. You might as well make some money with that inside knowledge....

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Luck is a glorifed Chad Pennington who cannot deliver a deep ball without hanging it up to be intercepted.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj6ItR71yEo

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    You could link to any one of the great out routes he's thrown across the entire field as well to put this theory to rest that Luck doesn't have a strong arm.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I don't care about that. I can about what I have seen. The two long passes that got picked off against Chicago that were underthrown and floated so that they were interecepted. He threw exactly the same pass against the Vikings and the receiver had to actually stop and wait for it to come down. Lucky that the defender stumbled or that would have been intercepted too and the Colts would be 0-3 right now. I did not see last weeks game because I was travelling and it was unavailable. But I saw enough of Luck's inability to throw that long ball in the preseason and the last two games to know this guy may be a decent QB but he will never be a big winner when he can't keep the defenses honest. The "most pro ready QB in NFL history" isn't even close to RGIII throwing the long ball. But, he really isn't close to RGIII anywhere else either. RGIII has a brutal schedule so he may not win many more games but he is a star already.....

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    You could link to any one of the great out routes he's thrown across the entire field as well to put this theory to rest that Luck doesn't have a strong arm.
    Oh, he can throw it far enough but not with velocity. That long ball floats and they have interception written all over them. Look at RGIII throw the long ball. There is a huge difference. That doesn't mean Luck cannot be effective. Pennington was effective for a long time. But, Luck isn't a superstar. RGIII is.....

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I doubt that either one of them ever gets to a Super Bowl much less win one. The Colts went 36 years between Super Bowl appearances before Manning took them there. Luck is a glorifed Chad Pennington who cannot deliver a deep ball without hanging it up to be intercepted. The defenses will key on this when and if the Colts every become a factor. I think you could get pretty good odds against either of these QBs ever making the Super Bowl if you are so certain. You might as well make some money with that inside knowledge....
    Obviously you haven't watched him play much. You have to watch him for more than 1 game vs the Bears defense is his first NFL start. Get some facts and comeback and see me before comparing him to Chad Pennington. FIEND
    "We want Miami"

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    On most of the plays you are describing OlBlu, there is one against Jax as well, he got hit as he was throwing deep.

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Now that could be. I will try to watch the plays for that. Thanks...

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    Default Re: Luck so far

    Fiend? I am sure you meant "friend". I will be watching but I don't expect to see much.... I do enjoy watching RGIII though....

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