"I had to take her down like Chris Brown."
I think that's the real issue. TB wasn't trying to make a play on the football, they were diving for the offensive lineman's legs to try and disrupt the snap. That is not in the spirit of the game and to me it's no different than going for someone's head. It showed Schiano's true colors to me, I have no idea why he is a head coach in the NFL. Congratulations you had mild success at Rutgers. Big deal.
Schiano being the coach of someone who broke their bloody neck playing football should know better than anyone how dangerous the sport already is, why add an unnecessary play that could have seriously hurt the Giants o-line?
Herm Edwards knows about miraculous finishes to games in the Meadowlands.
The former Jets and Chiefs head coach was part of arguably the most improbable victory in NFL history while playing cornerback for the Philadelphia Eagles in 1978. With his team trailing 17-12 and only seconds remaining, Edwards scooped up a botched handoff from Giants quarterback Joe Pisarcik to Larry Csonka and returned it 26 yards for a touchdown.
So Edwards was not surprised to see Bucs coach Greg Schiano attempt to create his own Miracle in the Meadowlands Sunday against the Giants at MetLife Stadium.
Trailing by a touchdown with five seconds remaining, no timeouts and the ball on the Giants 30-yard line, Schiano ordered his defense in a bunch formation to try and strip the ball from Eli Manning.
The play, in which Manning was knocked to the ground but handled the snap to end the game, drew a strong rebuke from Giants coach Tom Coughlin, who confronted Schiano after the game. Manning called it a cheap shot.
Edwards says Schiano’s decision was the right one, so long as the Bucs were only one score behind.
“I think there’s no wrong answer,’’ Edwards said Monday. “It’s just common sense with coaches and players. Look at the clock, know what the score is, and players know if there’s enough time on the clock and it’s a one score game, you’ve got to know these guys are probably going to fire off so we’ve got to get ready, boys. This thing isn’t over yet. I get that part.
“But when you’re a couple scores down and there’s 20 seconds left on the clock, you’re not winning that game. So be careful, because if you start doing that, somebody may want to pay you back. The coach doesn’t get paid back, it’s the players. If someone takes out your starting right guard and you’re up two scores with five seconds left, it’s not good.’’
While Edwards fumble recovery came during a botched handoff, the Eagles defense had a hand in the play-calling. Two plays before the Pisarcik fumble, the Giants attempted to kneel down and begin to kill the clock. But the Eagles, coached by Dick Vermeil, were taught to play every down.
After the defense surged on the Giants, they decided to call a couple running plays to the middle of the field.
“Our situation in ’78 was this: The Giants actually ran a play and then they turned around the next play and kneeled on it,[/B]’’ Edwards said. “[B]A skirmish occurred. We kind of knocked the center over, knocked Joe Piscarsik over.’’
According to Edwards, a week earlier Piscarsik had refused to run a play sent in late during the game form the Eagles’ offensive coordinator.
“Once the skirmish started, when they kneeled on the ball, they get back in the huddle, they run another running play,’’ Edwards said. “It goes for about five (yards). Now, the clock is going down to 26 seconds. They call a play in and say, “Now we’re going to run it again.’ Guys in the huddle are saying, “There’s no need to run it again. We’re under 30 seconds. We’re going to kneel on the ball.’ Joe is arguing, ‘coach said run it.’ Joe is still reflecting on what happened to him last week.
(Fullback Doug) Kotar comes to the line of scrimmage. I’m actually talking to Kotar. He thinks they’re kneeling. I shake his hand before the play even started. (Jim) Clack comes to center, he’s looking at the 40-second clock and Joe is looking back at Clark like we’re going to run the play. Clack is nervous because the 40-second clock is running down and he hikes the ball before Joe is ready. I watch the snap. Joe gets the ball, the timing of the run is off, Csonka comes through the line, it hits off his hip and I’m going if I can get this ball off the bounce I can score.’’
After the Miracle in the Meadowlands, teams developed the ‘victory formation,’ where helpless to stop the clock, they place a defensive back or receiver behind the center in case there is a fumble.
Edwards said the unfortunate thing about Sunday’s game against the Giants is that the kneel down debate has overshadowed what otherwise was a terrific game.
“This was a very emotional game,’’ Edwards said. “This has kind of become bigger than the game and it should’ve become that when the two coaches are head coaches. It’s one of those deals, maybe Tom could’ve handled it better. You call him the next day. But now it’s out there and we’re going to talk about it, we’re going to make it an issue.
“I don’t think there’s a wrong answer, but this is the answer. You talk about player safety. Don’t jeopardize players when you don’t have to.’’
That’s the key to Edwards. If the Bucs try this while trailing two scores with seconds remaining, then he’s not on board.
I think the point Brush was trying to make was that if the Giants had just knelt down on that play they would have won.
It looks to me like they WERE trying to make a play on the football, as they actually got to Manning and knocked him over.
video is here:
The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)
Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you
I felt like BRush this morning until I heard Golic.
He told a story of a game many years ago in the NFL where a team did the same thing and it caused them to win off a fumble.
I was just posting what Herm actually did say.
I'm kinda surprised that Coughlin and Eli decided to elevate this story by whining. They've won two Super Bowls. Why would they give some crap team and an upstart coach all of this attention? That's probably exactly what Schiano wanted. All of the whining by Coughlin seemed to be a bit beneath a two time Super Bowl champ, IMHO. And I'm someone who is very fond of the Giants. Just take your win and go home.
They aren't whining, they are upset. It was a very weird situation that nobody expected, and I feel like most people would be upset over it.
Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.
oh no what is going on?
Did they already do a kneel? If so, then it was just shady. If it was the first one, and the defense simply didn't know, then I guess I can look past it. But for the most part, I think they tell each other they're gonna kneel, and if that's the case, it's a pretty ****** thing to do. The offense is kneeling in respect to the defense and not runnign the score up; if they knew the defense was gonna rush them anywya, they would've just hiked the damn ball and made a play, possibly further advancing the ball.
If the defense was aware of the kneel and rushed anyway, then it's just plain shady. It could have hurt someone. That's been an unwritten rule in football for decades. Anyone defending it is like the guys the year teh Patriots were running up the score on everyone. Just because they kept playing 'til the whistle and didn't let up doesn't mean it was the sportsmanlike thing to do.
There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.
I don't think anyone is going to remember the game after Steve Young's rant about the refs
I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN pulls him for throwing the NFL under the bus
Slick, what is the deal with Welker? I notice he didn't even start this week's game. But when Hernandez got hurt, he came in and had a typical Welker performance (5 catches for 95 yards). Will he be starting now that Hernandez is out for a while as the Patriots will probably be using more three wideout sets? I ask this because I used a high pick on Welker for my fantasy team, so I will be hurting if he doesn't have a typical Welker season.
Last edited by Sollozzo; 09-18-2012 at 06:25 AM.
Everyone has been complaining about them this week. I'm glad that the media is keeping this front and center because the NFL is doing a giant disservice to the players and fans. Of course, these scab refs being bad at their job was pretty much the most predictable thing ever. There's no way that guys who reffed in a bunch of joke leagues could come into the NFL and do as good a job as the guys who have been reffing for many years. Hopefully Goodell gets backed into a corner here.
49ers are the best team by far
"We want Miami"
Good Lord Monday Night Football last night was an abortion. The NFL should be embarrassed they made people pay to watch that game and sit through those refs.
Retribution for not signing a long-term deal?
Just a short term game-planning maneuver, since Welker missed a lot of training camp? Rumored concussion?
Edelman is a better downfield run-blocker, and Ridley is busting some runs?
I tend to think his reps will go up and Edelmans will go down, because Wes is flat-out better.
there is a lot of uncertainty there though.
Wow - the Giants are kicking Carolina all over the place. Eli is fun to watch. Kind of reminds me of a young Peyton.
Anyone else think Cam Newton might have been drinking his own Kool-Aid in the offseason?
That was a classic "we're the Super Bowl champs and your little hyped team hasn't won jack" type of beat down by the Giants last night. I love watching the Giants when they are rolling like that. It didn't hurt that I picked up Andre Brown off waivers this week .
Eli is obviously one of the best quarterbacks in the game right now. He has all the postseason success that one could ever dream of. He is 31 and in the prime of his career. What I want to see him do is put together a string of 11+ win seasons where there's never any doubt that the Giants are going to make the playoffs. That's what the great quarterbacks like Peyton and Brady have done. If he puts together a string of seasons like that then people will have him pretty high on all-time lists.
Eli is as good as any QB in the league right now.
Never bet against the G-Men when they are on the road........
Last edited by Sollozzo; 09-21-2012 at 07:42 AM.