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Thread: Non-Colts thread

  1. #101
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I'd agree completely if it were a 2-score game. I haven't made up my mind in a one-score game. How often do teams go to the kneel-down with just a one-score lead? I honestly don't know. I think the clock should decide when the game is over, not one of the coaches acting unilaterally. I think you wait for the losing team to surrender, not just have the winning team dictate the end of the game before the clock is out.
    When they are ahead, the other team is out of timeouts, and kneel downs can run out the clock? Every. Single. Time. Ask Herm Edwards what should be done in that situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    But I don't completely buy the injury argument that much either. These guys are in pads for one thing, and in that situation you aren't going to have two guys colliding at full speed or the scenario that most offensive players get hurt in - twisting and reaching for an extra yard. The offensive guy is already trying to go down.
    It's not the quarterback who is in much risk of getting hurt. It's the offensive lineman who needlessly have to deal with someone diving into their legs for no reason whatsoever.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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  3. #102
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    I think that's the real issue. TB wasn't trying to make a play on the football, they were diving for the offensive lineman's legs to try and disrupt the snap. That is not in the spirit of the game and to me it's no different than going for someone's head. It showed Schiano's true colors to me, I have no idea why he is a head coach in the NFL. Congratulations you had mild success at Rutgers. Big deal.

    Schiano being the coach of someone who broke their bloody neck playing football should know better than anyone how dangerous the sport already is, why add an unnecessary play that could have seriously hurt the Giants o-line?

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  5. #103
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    When they are ahead, the other team is out of timeouts, and kneel downs can run out the clock? Every. Single. Time. Ask Herm Edwards what should be done in that situation.

    Herm Edwards knows about miraculous finishes to games in the Meadowlands.

    The former Jets and Chiefs head coach was part of arguably the most improbable victory in NFL history while playing cornerback for the Philadelphia Eagles in 1978. With his team trailing 17-12 and only seconds remaining, Edwards scooped up a botched handoff from Giants quarterback Joe Pisarcik to Larry Csonka and returned it 26 yards for a touchdown.

    So Edwards was not surprised to see Bucs coach Greg Schiano attempt to create his own Miracle in the Meadowlands Sunday against the Giants at MetLife Stadium.

    Trailing by a touchdown with five seconds remaining, no timeouts and the ball on the Giants 30-yard line, Schiano ordered his defense in a bunch formation to try and strip the ball from Eli Manning.

    The play, in which Manning was knocked to the ground but handled the snap to end the game, drew a strong rebuke from Giants coach Tom Coughlin, who confronted Schiano after the game. Manning called it a cheap shot.

    Edwards says Schiano’s decision was the right one, so long as the Bucs were only one score behind.

    I think there’s no wrong answer,’’ Edwards said Monday. “It’s just common sense with coaches and players. Look at the clock, know what the score is, and players know if there’s enough time on the clock and it’s a one score game, you’ve got to know these guys are probably going to fire off so we’ve got to get ready, boys. This thing isn’t over yet. I get that part.

    But when you’re a couple scores down and there’s 20 seconds left on the clock, you’re not winning that game. So be careful, because if you start doing that, somebody may want to pay you back. The coach doesn’t get paid back, it’s the players. If someone takes out your starting right guard and you’re up two scores with five seconds left, it’s not good.’’

    While Edwards fumble recovery came during a botched handoff, the Eagles defense had a hand in the play-calling. Two plays before the Pisarcik fumble, the Giants attempted to kneel down and begin to kill the clock. But the Eagles, coached by Dick Vermeil, were taught to play every down.

    After the defense surged on the Giants, they decided to call a couple running plays to the middle of the field.

    “Our situation in ’78 was this: The Giants actually ran a play and then they turned around the next play and kneeled on it,[/B]’’ Edwards said. “[B]A skirmish occurred. We kind of knocked the center over, knocked Joe Piscarsik over.’’

    According to Edwards, a week earlier Piscarsik had refused to run a play sent in late during the game form the Eagles’ offensive coordinator.

    “Once the skirmish started, when they kneeled on the ball, they get back in the huddle, they run another running play,’’ Edwards said. “It goes for about five (yards). Now, the clock is going down to 26 seconds. They call a play in and say, “Now we’re going to run it again.’ Guys in the huddle are saying, “There’s no need to run it again. We’re under 30 seconds. We’re going to kneel on the ball.’ Joe is arguing, ‘coach said run it.’ Joe is still reflecting on what happened to him last week.

    (Fullback Doug) Kotar comes to the line of scrimmage. I’m actually talking to Kotar. He thinks they’re kneeling. I shake his hand before the play even started. (Jim) Clack comes to center, he’s looking at the 40-second clock and Joe is looking back at Clark like we’re going to run the play. Clack is nervous because the 40-second clock is running down and he hikes the ball before Joe is ready. I watch the snap. Joe gets the ball, the timing of the run is off, Csonka comes through the line, it hits off his hip and I’m going if I can get this ball off the bounce I can score.’’

    After the Miracle in the Meadowlands, teams developed the ‘victory formation,’ where helpless to stop the clock, they place a defensive back or receiver behind the center in case there is a fumble.

    Edwards said the unfortunate thing about Sunday’s game against the Giants is that the kneel down debate has overshadowed what otherwise was a terrific game.

    “This was a very emotional game,’’ Edwards said. “This has kind of become bigger than the game and it should’ve become that when the two coaches are head coaches. It’s one of those deals, maybe Tom could’ve handled it better. You call him the next day. But now it’s out there and we’re going to talk about it, we’re going to make it an issue.

    “I don’t think there’s a wrong answer, but this is the answer. You talk about player safety. Don’t jeopardize players when you don’t have to.’’

    That’s the key to Edwards. If the Bucs try this while trailing two scores with seconds remaining, then he’s not on board.
    http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/c...s-ii-vs-giants

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  7. #104
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    I think the point Brush was trying to make was that if the Giants had just knelt down on that play they would have won.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  8. #105

    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I think that's the real issue. TB wasn't trying to make a play on the football, they were diving for the offensive lineman's legs to try and disrupt the snap.
    It looks to me like they WERE trying to make a play on the football, as they actually got to Manning and knocked him over.

    video is here:

    http://www.nesn.com/2012/09/justin-t...-forgotte.html
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  9. #106
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I think the point Brush was trying to make was that if the Giants had just knelt down on that play they would have won.
    But the defense should play every snap. If the offense wants to kneel down, that's not the defense's problem.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
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  11. #107
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    I felt like BRush this morning until I heard Golic.

    He told a story of a game many years ago in the NFL where a team did the same thing and it caused them to win off a fumble.

  12. #108
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I think the point Brush was trying to make was that if the Giants had just knelt down on that play they would have won.
    I was just posting what Herm actually did say.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    But the defense should play every snap. If the offense wants to kneel down, that's not the defense's problem.
    That's pretty much how I feel. Just because the offense has decided they won doesn't mean the defense should decide they've lost. Just because the offense does not want to run a play doesn't mean the defense shouldn't.

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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    I'm kinda surprised that Coughlin and Eli decided to elevate this story by whining. They've won two Super Bowls. Why would they give some crap team and an upstart coach all of this attention? That's probably exactly what Schiano wanted. All of the whining by Coughlin seemed to be a bit beneath a two time Super Bowl champ, IMHO. And I'm someone who is very fond of the Giants. Just take your win and go home.

  14. #110

    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    They aren't whining, they are upset. It was a very weird situation that nobody expected, and I feel like most people would be upset over it.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  15. #111
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    oh no what is going on?

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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness View Post
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    They aren't whining, they are upset. It was a very weird situation that nobody expected, and I feel like most people would be upset over it.
    It's one thing if it's a two possession game. Then it's clearly a cheap move. But this was a one possession game where the Bucs still technically had a shot. As Jay said, just because the offense quit doesn't mean that the defense has to quit. Like Golic said on Mike and Mike, it was clear what the defense was going to do. The Giants shouldn't have been caught napping.

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  18. #113
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Did they already do a kneel? If so, then it was just shady. If it was the first one, and the defense simply didn't know, then I guess I can look past it. But for the most part, I think they tell each other they're gonna kneel, and if that's the case, it's a pretty ****** thing to do. The offense is kneeling in respect to the defense and not runnign the score up; if they knew the defense was gonna rush them anywya, they would've just hiked the damn ball and made a play, possibly further advancing the ball.

    If the defense was aware of the kneel and rushed anyway, then it's just plain shady. It could have hurt someone. That's been an unwritten rule in football for decades. Anyone defending it is like the guys the year teh Patriots were running up the score on everyone. Just because they kept playing 'til the whistle and didn't let up doesn't mean it was the sportsmanlike thing to do.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  19. #114

    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    It's one thing if it's a two possession game. Then it's clearly a cheap move. But this was a one possession game where the Bucs still technically had a shot. As Jay said, just because the offense quit doesn't mean that the defense has to quit. Like Golic said on Mike and Mike, it was clear what the defense was going to do. The Giants shouldn't have been caught napping.

    What's ironic is that Giants of all people should realize that I mean Miracle at the Meadowlands anyone?

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  21. #115

    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    I don't think anyone is going to remember the game after Steve Young's rant about the refs

    I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN pulls him for throwing the NFL under the bus

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  23. #116
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    I don't think anyone is going to remember the game after Steve Young's rant about the refs

    I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN pulls him for throwing the NFL under the bus
    eh, the fans all agree. The refs are a ****ing joke. The NFL just needs to pay the real officials. And Steve is one of the best guys they have.

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  25. #117
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Slick, what is the deal with Welker? I notice he didn't even start this week's game. But when Hernandez got hurt, he came in and had a typical Welker performance (5 catches for 95 yards). Will he be starting now that Hernandez is out for a while as the Patriots will probably be using more three wideout sets? I ask this because I used a high pick on Welker for my fantasy team, so I will be hurting if he doesn't have a typical Welker season.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 09-18-2012 at 06:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    I don't think anyone is going to remember the game after Steve Young's rant about the refs

    I wouldn't be surprised if ESPN pulls him for throwing the NFL under the bus

    Everyone has been complaining about them this week. I'm glad that the media is keeping this front and center because the NFL is doing a giant disservice to the players and fans. Of course, these scab refs being bad at their job was pretty much the most predictable thing ever. There's no way that guys who reffed in a bunch of joke leagues could come into the NFL and do as good a job as the guys who have been reffing for many years. Hopefully Goodell gets backed into a corner here.

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  28. #119
    THE WITCH IS DEAD!!! Coopdog23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    49ers are the best team by far
    "We want Miami"

  29. #120
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Good Lord Monday Night Football last night was an abortion. The NFL should be embarrassed they made people pay to watch that game and sit through those refs.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  31. #121

    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Slick, what is the deal with Welker? I notice he didn't even start this week's game. But when Hernandez got hurt, he came in and had a typical Welker performance (5 catches for 95 yards). Will he be starting now that Hernandez is out for a while as the Patriots will probably be using more three wideout sets? I ask this because I used a high pick on Welker for my fantasy team, so I will be hurting if he doesn't have a typical Welker season.
    That's a major topic of debate.

    Retribution for not signing a long-term deal?
    Just a short term game-planning maneuver, since Welker missed a lot of training camp? Rumored concussion?
    Edelman is a better downfield run-blocker, and Ridley is busting some runs?

    I tend to think his reps will go up and Edelmans will go down, because Wes is flat-out better.

    there is a lot of uncertainty there though.
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  33. #122

    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Wow - the Giants are kicking Carolina all over the place. Eli is fun to watch. Kind of reminds me of a young Peyton.

  34. #123
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Anyone else think Cam Newton might have been drinking his own Kool-Aid in the offseason?

  35. #124

    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Anyone else think Cam Newton might have been drinking his own Kool-Aid in the offseason?
    He's experiencing a sophmore slump but their defense was terrible too.

  36. #125
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    Default Re: Non-Colts thread

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Wow - the Giants are kicking Carolina all over the place. Eli is fun to watch. Kind of reminds me of a young Peyton.

    That was a classic "we're the Super Bowl champs and your little hyped team hasn't won jack" type of beat down by the Giants last night. I love watching the Giants when they are rolling like that. It didn't hurt that I picked up Andre Brown off waivers this week .

    Eli is obviously one of the best quarterbacks in the game right now. He has all the postseason success that one could ever dream of. He is 31 and in the prime of his career. What I want to see him do is put together a string of 11+ win seasons where there's never any doubt that the Giants are going to make the playoffs. That's what the great quarterbacks like Peyton and Brady have done. If he puts together a string of seasons like that then people will have him pretty high on all-time lists.

    Eli is as good as any QB in the league right now.

    Never bet against the G-Men when they are on the road........
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 09-21-2012 at 07:42 AM.

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