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Thread: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

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    Default Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/teamrankings

    Bang For The Buck (BNG): Wins during the past three years (regular season plus postseason) per revenues directly from fans, adjusted for league schedules.

    Fan Relations (FRL): Openness and consideration toward fans by players, coaches and management.

    Ownership (OWN): Honesty and loyalty to core players and local community.

    Affordability (AFF): Price of tickets, parking and concessions.

    Stadium Experience (STX): Quality of arena and game-day promotions as well as friendliness of environment.

    Players (PLA): Effort on the field and likability off it.

    Coaching (CCH): Strength of on-field leadership.

    Title Track (TTR): Championships already won or expected in the lifetime of current fans.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/...ingsPacers2012
    By Max Klinger | ESPN The Magazine

    Last year's rank: 48
    Title track: 66
    Ownership: 18
    Coaching: 25
    Players: 16
    Fan relations: 20
    Affordability: 3
    Stadium experience: 15
    Bang for the buck: 3

    The lockout meant a lot of things to a lot of people, but for the Pacers the resulting collective bargaining agreement was the reaffirmation of a specific management philosophy. In light of the CBA changes, the Pacers' brand of small ball suddenly seemed less like a toss of the dice and more like the strategy of the future for small-market clubs. It's a simple strategy but not easily duplicated: precise draft picks (Granger, Hibbert, George), prudent trades (Barbosa) and prescient free agent signings (West). That's how the Pacers created the kind of chemistry that took them to the Eastern Conference semifinals (their first since 2005) with the third-lowest payroll in the league. With a smaller front office and less money, they simply can't afford the toe-tapping free agent games that other big-market teams can, and what has resulted is a finely calibrated personnel strategy. The Pacers could be the Eastern Conference version of the Thunder, only leaner, cheaper and more efficient (the Thunder have the 14th-lowest payroll; the Pacers have the 28th). And this homespun management style has caught on well with the plainspoken basketball fans of Indiana. It helps that the Pacers were voted the most affordable team in the NBA. It also means that categories like ownership, coaching and players received 40-plus point boosts in our poll. With the new CBA set to start showing its teeth in the years to come, the Pacers are set up to be the franchise of the future.

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    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    Wow, interesting.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    Remember when people were balking about Hibbert getting that 58 MIL? We don't make top 20 in Fan Relations and Players without him. Press like this is only going to be good news for the team, and Roy is a big part of this.

    Like a lot of people have said, when you factor in what Roy does off the court combined with his on court work, he is well worth the money.
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    THE WITCH IS DEAD!!! Coopdog23's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    Roy has the potential to be the best center in the league. Paul George has the potential to be the best guard in the league. Pacers are a rising franchise and they are going to be contenders in the East for a while just like the Reggie teams of the 90s and early 2000s
    Smothered Chicken!

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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    Yeah, but where's our superstar?

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    I saw this a few minutes ago and couldn't believe ESPN would have us in the top 5 of anything! Way to go Pacers!

    edit: Man what a tumble the Colts have taken @ #57. Ouch
    Last edited by DGPR; 09-07-2012 at 04:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    My 2 sports loves in the top 4. Good day, indeed
    Read my Pacers.com Guest Blog:
    "Area 55 Conquers Staples Center"

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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    Quote Originally Posted by TMJ31 View Post
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    My 2 sports loves in the top 4. Good day, indeed
    Your Angels are at 15. Not too shabby as well.

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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    They have Lucas Oil ranked higher than Conseco? Lucas is nice, but Conseco is something else.

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    Default Pacers ranked #4 in ESPN's Ultime Standings

    Last edited by Constellations; 09-11-2012 at 05:11 AM.
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    Default Re: Pacers ranked #4 in ESPN's Ultime Standings

    We are miles off OKC do we have a superstar no heck we dont even have a single player that is as good as Harden or Westbrook

    not even the same area code
    Counting down the days untill DJ Augustin's contract expires.

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    Default Re: Pacers ranked #4 in ESPN's Ultime Standings


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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    More "proof" that there's no excuse to not sell freaking tickets. It's not the franchise. The team's good. Bunch of milkdrinkers. Exciting dunkers. Tickets are dirt cheap. The Colts suck. Sweet new scoreboard. Outstanding building. Whatever excuse people want to make, it's not true anymore.

    We'll see how much this state "loves" good basketball.

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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    More "proof" that there's no excuse to not sell freaking tickets. It's not the franchise. The team's good. Bunch of milkdrinkers. Exciting dunkers. Tickets are dirt cheap. The Colts suck. Sweet new scoreboard. Outstanding building. Whatever excuse people want to make, it's not true anymore.

    We'll see how much this state "loves" good basketball.
    Unfortunately though a lot of basketball fans don't see the NBA as "real basketball"...
    Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    And please realize this is a huge jump from previous years, it isn't like we've sat at this level for a while. It took a few years for the fans to walk, it will take some time to get them back.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Pacers ranked #4 in ESPN's Ultime Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnotiq View Post
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    We are miles off OKC do we have a superstar no heck we dont even have a single player that is as good as Harden or Westbrook

    not even the same area code
    Yeah I stopped reading at "the Pacers are the OKC of the east" part.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 09-11-2012 at 11:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    I get the magazine at home and didn't even see us listed at 4 until I went all the way through the list and then back to the top. Just wasn't expecting us to be so high.

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    Default Re: Pacers ranked #4 in ESPN's Ultime Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yeah I stopped reading at "the Pacers are the OKC of the east" part.
    If you stopped there you almost read the whole thing. . And it did say "The Pacers could be the Eastern Conference version of the Thunder, only leaner, cheaper and more efficient" which to me seems to be in the way we are running things, though I do think it is a stretch as well considering talent. I would compare us more to Memphis.

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    Default Re: Pacers ranked #4 in ESPN's Ultime Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreKen View Post
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    If you stopped there you almost read the whole thing. . And it did say "The Pacers could be the Eastern Conference version of the Thunder, only leaner, cheaper and more efficient" which to me seems to be in the way we are running things, though I do think it is a stretch as well considering talent. I would compare us more to Memphis.
    Does efficient mean from a fiscal standpoint? Then the efficiency is what is keeping us from being elite.

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    Default Re: Pacers ranked #4 in ESPN's Ultime Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreKen View Post
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    If you stopped there you almost read the whole thing. . And it did say "The Pacers could be the Eastern Conference version of the Thunder, only leaner, cheaper and more efficient" which to me seems to be in the way we are running things, though I do think it is a stretch as well considering talent. I would compare us more to Memphis.
    Yes I almost finish reading the whole thing until I got to that part and then I was looking to see if this was some article from thebleacherreport people.

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    Default Re: Pacers ranked #4 in ESPN's Ultime Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Yes I almost finish reading the whole thing until I got to that part and then I was looking to see if this was some article from thebleacherreport people.
    "could be the" is not the same as "are the" - it means it could happen given other events than are in place now. You could argue that those actions might never take place for whatever reason, but that doesn't invalidate the idea that the Pacers are only those actions away from going to the next level.

    There seems to be a real need on this board to say that nothing the Pacers will do, could do, or could even possibly conceive of doing can take them to any level comparable to any team in the top 10 of the NBA. Even when someone completely outside the realm of Pacer fans makes a comparison we dismiss it out of hand.

    At some point we have to accept that there actually are some good things about where this team is, and that "what if" comparisons aren't completely off-base. WILL it happen - that's a basis for discussion. Is it POSSIBLE - how is that somehow in and of itself out of the realm of rational thought?
    BillS

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    Default Re: Pacers ranked #4 in ESPN's Ultime Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Does efficient mean from a fiscal standpoint? Then the efficiency is what is keeping us from being elite.
    I don't know. Middling draft picks and the lack of top tier free agent sis to blame for that.

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    Default Re: Ultimate Standings: Indiana Pacers #4

    I agree what we need is somebody to develop into a star. Possibly George. That way we can get some BS calls to help us out. If Hibbert and George both achieve what we know they can achieve. I would say we are the best team in the East if one of the Big 3 is severely hobbled. Lakers on the other hand, who knows they could be amazing or flop this year

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    Default Re: Pacers ranked #4 in ESPN's Ultime Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    "could be the" is not the same as "are the" - it means it could happen given other events than are in place now. You could argue that those actions might never take place for whatever reason, but that doesn't invalidate the idea that the Pacers are only those actions away from going to the next level.

    There seems to be a real need on this board to say that nothing the Pacers will do, could do, or could even possibly conceive of doing can take them to any level comparable to any team in the top 10 of the NBA. Even when someone completely outside the realm of Pacer fans makes a comparison we dismiss it out of hand.

    At some point we have to accept that there actually are some good things about where this team is, and that "what if" comparisons aren't completely off-base. WILL it happen - that's a basis for discussion. Is it POSSIBLE - how is that somehow in and of itself out of the realm of rational thought?
    My point is that there shouldn't be a comparison between the Pacers and OKC, it's not even close, they have two Superstars(Westbrook/Durant) and two really good players with the potential to be All Stars for years to come(Ibaka/Harden) note that the guys with "potential" are already showing what they can do, not only that but they have a true young core, their top five players are really young and are going to hit their primes at the same time.

    Now let's compare all that to the Pacers, Superstar player? nope, All Star? Roy Hibbert, players with potential that could be an all star? I'm going to name Paul George just for the sake of discussion, I like Hill but I don't think he is ever going to be an AS and then you look at Danny(29) and Dwest(32) and they are up there in age making them "not part of the future".

    So at the end of the day in few years when the youngsters of both teams hit their primes OKC will probably have, Westbrook,Harden, Durant, Ibaka, Perkins and Indiana will probably have, Hill, Paul George, Hibbert and two x players, so unless you think that the Pacers have a chance to get two superstars the comparison to OKC is never going to work.

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    Default Re: Pacers ranked #4 in ESPN's Ultime Standings

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    My point is that there shouldn't be a comparison between the Pacers and OKC, it's not even close, they have two Superstars(Westbrook/Durant) and two really good players with the potential to be All Stars for years to come(Ibaka/Harden) note that the guys with "potential" are already showing what they can do, not only that but they have a true young core, their top five players are really young and are going to hit their primes at the same time.

    Now let's compare all that to the Pacers, Superstar player? nope, All Star? Roy Hibbert, players with potential that could be an all star? I'm going to name Paul George just for the sake of discussion, I like Hill but I don't think he is ever going to be an AS and then you look at Danny(29) and Dwest(32) and they are up there in age making them "not part of the future".

    So at the end of the day in few years when the youngsters of both teams hit their primes OKC will probably have, Westbrook,Harden, Durant, Ibaka, Perkins and Indiana will probably have, Hill, Paul George, Hibbert and two x players, so unless you think that the Pacers have a chance to get two superstars the comparison to OKC is never going to work.
    Hibbert is an All-Star, and still has upside, could be a perrenial all-star when it is said and done. George has potential to be a star, and at the very least should end up being an elite complimentary player. Hill doesn't need to be an All-Star for the Pacers to compete at a high level, just a very good player, which I don't think is out of his reach. Granger, and West both don't rely on athleticism for their games, decline should be slow, and West should actually be improved next year since he'll be healthy the whole time, and if Granger plays like 2nd half of the season Granger, rather than first half, he very well could make the All-Star game next year too, he still has lots of success around the league, and if he isn't shooting an abnormally horrible percent for the first half of the season he'll probably make the game next year if the Pacers are a top 3 seed, which is very possible.

    Yes we don't have the talent of OKC, but they are probably going to have to move Harden after overpaying Ibaka, and if things go well we can compete with OKC, and Miami, though as underdogs, but not pushovers even compared to them.

    We're never going to be favorites over teams like that, but we have the potential to be Darkhorses.

    You don't need superstars to compete at the highest level. Is it easier? Sure, but our 90's team had no superstars, and we were 2 minutes away from sending Michael Jordan home packing. The Blazers didn't have a traditional superstar, and nearly took out the lakers multiple times, the Pistons had no superstar and won a championship. It isn't easy, but that is the lot of most teams.

    Who here is comparing our raw "talent" to teams like Miami or OKC? They aren't, but we've proven to be able to compete with teams like that, a punchers chance isn't out of the question if things fall into place correctly. We aren't without talent either. If George reaches the all-star level 2 years from now we'll have 4 All stars or former all-stars still playing at a high level in our starting lineup. We didn't have the 5th best record in the NBA by accident.

    Call it a fluke for now, but will you at least admit that Indy is doing something right if we win 50+ games this season?

    Basketball isn't as simple as looking at names on paper and calling the winner, we've had more success than most teams in the NBA, and you can argue that we've NEVER outside of a very brief period with JO ever had what was unanimously considered a "superstar". Despite that we've made numerous conference finals, the NBA finals, and been a consistent playoff team for the greater part of the last 20+ years.
    Last edited by daschysta; 09-11-2012 at 10:17 PM.

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