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Thread: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Point guards (2) - George Hill, DJ Augustine
    Wings (5) - Paul George, Danny Granger, Gerald Greene, Lance Stephenson, Orlando Johnson
    Bigs (5) - David West, Roy Hibbert, Ian Mahimni, Tyler Hansbrough, Plumlee

    That is 12 guys who will be on the roster, unless there's a trade.

    Too much depends on Lance Stephenson with this scenario, not that he can't do it, its just not proven.

    So, that leaves these guys trying to fill the last spots.

    Jeff Pendergraph, Sam Young, Sundiata Gaines, and Ahearn.

    You have to have a 3rd point guard, that is either Gaines or Ahearn. So that is one of the spots, imo. This puts you at 13.

    If Lance isn't ready and Orlando Johnson is a rookie, you need another wing. I think thats Sam Young, imo, you could do alot worse. This puts you at 14.

    You should try to have 6 bigs, just for injuries. You can look at the break down between Centers and PFs on the existing team and you have enough guys who supposedly can play either position, at times. Roy, Mahinmi, Plumlee at center. D West, Hansbrough, and Mahinmi at PF. So you are okay there. I think they keep Pendergraph too, though, just to have enough bodies. Also, they love Pendergraph in the lockeroom and how hard he works, so that helps him. (I'm skeptical of this, since he looked okay to bad in summer league, but still). That is 15.

    I think they'd rather not carry 15 and keep only 14 to keep flexibility if they want to make a move going forward. However, with the structure of the team I think they keep all 15 and the only decision is between Gaines and Ahearn. I think that comes down to how bad Ahearns defense is or how great his shooting is. I think Gaines is the pick since he's just a solid all around proven 3rd NBA caliber Point Guard.

    Wildcard #1 - Lance looks like he's ready for a break through season and they feel like you don't need to carry those extra guys as insurance.

    Wildcard #2 - Sam Young is the only one out of those 4 that has an actualy chance to beat out guys in front of him and be a rotation player. Gaines/Ahearn are #3 Point Guards, not beating out Hill and DJ Augustine. Pendergraph isn't beating out the rotation bigs in front of him. Sam Young has to beat out Lance and Orlando to start to get minutes in a 10 man rotation...that doesn't seem impossible, at all.

    Final Roster going into the first game would look like this, I think (pending other moves, of course).

    Point guards (3) - George Hill, DJ Augustine, Sundiata Gaines
    Wings (6) - Paul George, Danny Granger, Gerald Greene, Lance Stephenson, Sam Young, Orlando Johnson
    Bigs (6) - David West, Roy Hibbert, Ian Mahimni, Tyler Hansbrough, Miles Plumlee, Jeff Pendergraph
    I thought Pendy was guaranteed?
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  3. #52
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by J7F View Post
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    I thought Pendy was guaranteed?
    Yup, guaranteed $1.5m. Doesn't mean we won't cut him if the need arises, but I would think someone else would have to blow the coaching staff away for him to lose his spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    You have to have a 3rd point guard, that is either Gaines or Ahearn. So that is one of the spots, imo. This puts you at 13.
    That's my thinking as well, but TPTB seem to think that either Lance or OJ can fill the 3rd PG spot, if summer league is any indication.

    Right now my money's on Gaines, but it all depends on how they perform in camp obviously.

    I think our wing rotation is ok if Augustin plays heavy minutes at PG with George Hill switching over to SG for a chunk of time. Obviously not everyone agrees with this line of thinking.
    Last edited by wintermute; 09-07-2012 at 10:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Also, these guys are signed to training camp deals, which entails typically getting about $50k in guaranteed money on a league minimum deal. They have incentive to come to your camp and try out. If they fail to make the roster, they take their $50k and go play in the DLeague or Europe. If they make the team, they jump up to about $800k which is more than they'd make anywhere else and they get their opportunity on an NBA roster.

    IMO, I think we sign Young. The dude is an ox. He is super strong and he's athletic. He needs to improve his shot, which is why I don't think he has stuck on a team. If he can make our roster, it gives him some more opportunity to improve his offensive game and its versatilty. He is very good as a defender and rebounder for his position. I'd like to see him play a little more SF than SG personally. If anything, he can give us a couple more hard fouls on LeDouche.
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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    I love the Sam Young signing.

    He's the perfect wingman to have on the team and to put in the rotation if needed. He filled in well for Memphis in the 2011 playoffs when Rudy Gay was out.

    Same with Gaines. He'd be a great third string PG to fill in if needed. We'll see if he can beat out Ahearn for the final roster spot.
    Last edited by Trophy; 09-07-2012 at 10:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Devil's advocate thoughts:

    The biggest thing that I think Sam Young would have going against him is his lack of offense and the second unit. When I've watched Sam, I felt like that his jumper was all that was missing to make him a legit rotation wing, on a good team. The Pacers second unit, in its pure form, looks to me like it will struggle offensively.

    As it stands, you have Mahinmi at Center who has no skills to get a shot other than finishing and a set shot thats supposed to be improved. Tyler who without getting into it isn't going to generate offense, consistently. Gerald Green who from most reports isn't a shot creator and is more a knock down jumper guy (not what I saw last year, but reports are saying that). Lance who has Point Guard handles, but his decision making is inconsistent. DJ Augustine, he can get his shot or get someone else one. Alot depends on Lance. I think they'll try to go through him quite a bit, hearing Coach Vogel interviewed at the summer league.

    So here's my concern for Sam Young, if he is needed to play, ya he helps you defensively and physically, but if your biggest weakness on the bench is offense, he's of almost no help to the overall production based on that need. You are almost better off with hot/cold Barbosa who can carry you in stretches, offensively.

    Its like if you got spaghetti noodles, but not enough gravy (sauce), then if someone gives you more noodles, that doesn't really help the meal taste any better, you need some gravy!

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    I would rather have Adray Blatche, but you can't remove his knucklehead to receive the player.

    Sam Young could be the only player to crack the rotation, since we lost Jones.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Dominic McGuire is a free agent we should of signed him a month ago. I like him much better than Young.
    I'd be interested in him as well. Limited scoring but he is an amazing rebounder.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by repole View Post
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    Ugh, Gaines is awful. I followed the Nets last year, there isn't a single fan from that side that would have anything positive to say about Sundiata. He tries to do way too much.
    That's exactly what I gather from the Nets RealGM board as well. I used to read some game threads there mainly to see what people wrote about Johan Petro

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    I loved Sam Young as a sleeper in that draft and I think he's met expectations. Coming out he had one of the nastiest up-fakes (his arm length helps) and a solid nice short/on the move jumper touch. He has never had 3pt range which keeps him from being a regular starting SG, but inside the arc he's a solid scorer (but not a scoring machine/instant offense, ie not a 6th man).

    He completed 10-11 on 3 solid to strong months which gave every indication that he was on his way to solidifying his role as a 7-8th man bench scorer, something you would expect out of a guy finishing his 2nd season. Then came last season which was a disaster. In part he was never the right fit for the wing rotation that Memphis and Philly already had in play, but other than that I didn't get the drop in production.

    If it was just circumstantial then the Pacers just got 15-18 minutes of bench scoring with better defense than Barbosa and better shot selection (less shot hogging) as well. He should be able to outplay Orlando Johnson IMO.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Devil's advocate thoughts:

    The biggest thing that I think Sam Young would have going against him is his lack of offense and the second unit. When I've watched Sam, I felt like that his jumper was all that was missing to make him a legit rotation wing, on a good team. The Pacers second unit, in its pure form, looks to me like it will struggle offensively.

    As it stands, you have Mahinmi at Center who has no skills to get a shot other than finishing and a set shot thats supposed to be improved. Tyler who without getting into it isn't going to generate offense, consistently. Gerald Green who from most reports isn't a shot creator and is more a knock down jumper guy (not what I saw last year, but reports are saying that). Lance who has Point Guard handles, but his decision making is inconsistent. DJ Augustine, he can get his shot or get someone else one. Alot depends on Lance. I think they'll try to go through him quite a bit, hearing Coach Vogel interviewed at the summer league.

    So here's my concern for Sam Young, if he is needed to play, ya he helps you defensively and physically, but if your biggest weakness on the bench is offense, he's of almost no help to the overall production based on that need. You are almost better off with hot/cold Barbosa who can carry you in stretches, offensively.

    Its like if you got spaghetti noodles, but not enough gravy (sauce), then if someone gives you more noodles, that doesn't really help the meal taste any better, you need some gravy!
    Great points, but I will say this... Our second unit got destroyed in the playoffs when we had to bring in our second unit defensively. Their offense didn't even come close to what they gave up defensively. I would have felt so much better about bringing in Sam Young and Green than Jones and Barbosa, especially against Lebron and DWade. At this point I would say that Green and Young are both as good or better defensively than Jones, and nobody is as bad defensively as Barbosa. Our second unit defense this year will be markedly better. I didn't see very good offensive efficiency last year at any point from our reserves outside of a few games where Barbosa and Collison got hot. And that is all on the individual, not within a team concept of some sort.

    I fully expect our second unit to be better both offensively and defensively once we get our rotations solidified next year.
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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    If Young if the guy I am thinking of, then I would definitely like to see him make the final roster. Should watch some film of him to see, but I am so damn lazy right now.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    Great points, but I will say this... Our second unit got destroyed in the playoffs when we had to bring in our second unit defensively. Their offense didn't even come close to what they gave up defensively. I would have felt so much better about bringing in Sam Young and Green than Jones and Barbosa, especially against Lebron and DWade. At this point I would say that Green and Young are both as good or better defensively than Jones, and nobody is as bad defensively as Barbosa. Our second unit defense this year will be markedly better. I didn't see very good offensive efficiency last year at any point from our reserves outside of a few games where Barbosa and Collison got hot. And that is all on the individual, not within a team concept of some sort.

    I fully expect our second unit to be better both offensively and defensively once we get our rotations solidified next year.

    To add to your point, when you have a starting line up that includes double digit scorers at every position, scoring off the bench isn't AS necessary. Between our starting 5, Augustine and Green you have 7 players that are probably capable of being double digit scorers if necessary. When you add Hansbrough, you have an 8th player that has averaged double digits at some point within his career.

    I would much rather have strong defenders coming off the bench, as opposed to having offensive minded players that are defensive liabilities (I.E Barbosa) You can sprinkle a Sam Young and/or a Mahinmi with a variation of our starters, and not lose TOO much offensively, while still being able to match-up defensively.

    You can NEVER have too many athletic wing defenders to throw at a Lebron, Wade, D.Rose, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, etc.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 09-07-2012 at 02:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Of course if Frank the tank doesn't go with the hockey substitution approach this year I really see near endless possible 5 man units that we can throw together that are well balanced both offensively and defensively...
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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad-Mad-Mario View Post
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    If Young if the guy I am thinking of, then I would definitely like to see him make the final roster. Should watch some film of him to see, but I am so damn lazy right now.
    Here ya go!


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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Yup, guaranteed $1.5m. Doesn't mean we won't cut him if the need arises, but I would think someone else would have to blow the coaching staff away for him to lose his spot.
    There is no way that a Team and Front Office that closely watches the SalaryCap and Financial situation would cut a guaranteed Player....even if he is just sitting at the end of the bench in a suit. Unless 2 of the 3 Players brought in COMPLETELY outplays everyone in Training Camp and totally impresses Vogel.....I doubt that Pendegraph is cut.

    I think that Young is the best Player of the 3....but if Vogel thinks that Lance is good enough to fill AJs shoes the "break in case of emergency PG", then I'd think ( and hope ) that Young is the one that is kept.

    If Vogel thinks that Lance is better suited to play at the wing positions at SG....then I'd think that Gaines is the guy that will be kept.
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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Here ya go!

    Man, we would be so athletic if we end up signing him...

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Its like if you got spaghetti noodles, but not enough gravy (sauce), then if someone gives you more noodles, that doesn't really help the meal taste any better, you need some gravy!
    Great....now you made me hungry.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Its like if you got spaghetti noodles, but not enough gravy (sauce), then if someone gives you more noodles, that doesn't really help the meal taste any better, you need some gravy!
    Unless the cook likes noodles and doesn't care much for gravy... then you might not get the gravy you crave....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    I like bringing competition into training camp.

    Pendy, Lance, and OJ are definitely not garunteed anything if they get their butts beat in camp. They are all on 1 year deals and would be easy to release.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    if young can play dahntay jones D off the bench, then great signing...since the mahini trade we are down a bench wing defender who can reasonably match-up against other teams' starting 2/3s.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Unless the cook likes noodles and doesn't care much for gravy... then you might not get the gravy you crave....
    Aye who in the right state of mind doesn't like GRAVY!?

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Yeah, Young seems like a younger Dahntay Jones to me.

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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    1:23 he shows the up fake I'm talking about it. He crushed people with it while at Pitt and it was the one quality that I scouted as being 100% NBA capable, or in other words something he could do that would beat most NBA competition. They might have only put one on his highlight reel here, but it's his go-to move on offense. He drives to the rim or he'll step to the side for the short jumper, and as I said he has nice touch on lateral moving shots.


    My only fear is that something has gone awry with him based on last year. Hidden injury, attitude, other??? But he could be a steal for the Pacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Here ya go!


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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    I would rather have Adray Blatche, but you can't remove his knucklehead to receive the player.

    Sam Young could be the only player to crack the rotation, since we lost Jones.
    he signed with the Nets...Nets starting 5 is looking really good with Williams, JJ, Wallace, Blatche and Lopez
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    Default Re: Pacers sign Young, Gaines, Ahearn.

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    he signed with the Nets...Nets starting 5 is looking really good with Williams, JJ, Wallace, Blatche and Lopez
    Humphries is starting over Blatche for sure.
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