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Thread: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Anyone who compares Reggie's regular season performance to any other SG is totally missing what made him a HOFer. The thing that set Reggie apart was his ability to come up big in the playoffs. Reggie averaged 21.1 ppg in the playoffs. Before his role deminished during his last 3 seasons, his average was a gaudy 24 ppg - nearly 5 points more than what he averaged during the regular season!

    Mitch Richmond never made any noise in the playoffs or in the clutch. A lot of that is due to his poor level of talent around him but his play during the playoffs never matched his during the season production.

    Tracy McGrady was one of the best regular season SGs of all-time. He couldn't get his teams, even with a 3-1 lead with Orlando or an in his prime Yao Ming and Steve Francis, to the 2nd round.

    Glenn Rice was a great scorer for about 2-3 years. Ultimately he fizzled out due to injuries even though he was a very good player that torched the Pacers a few times during the 2000 Finals.

    Reggie was clutch. All of the NBA greats agree. That's what made him famous, hence he is in the Hall of Fame.

    Right. Reggie won playoff games and series with more regularity than players that were better than him. Those playoff wins were team accomplishments, not individual accomplishments. Just as Russell's championships don't make him a better player than Wilt just because Russell had a better supporting cast of HoFers. Reggie had longevity and playoff wins and thus he's remembered more favorably than players that were better than him. That's why I think top-ten is appopriate but not top-three or top-five.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
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  2. #102
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Right. Reggie won playoff games and series with more regularity than players that were better than him. Those playoff wins were team accomplishments, not individual accomplishments. Just as Russell's championships don't make him a better player than Wilt just because Russell had a better supporting cast of HoFers. Reggie had longevity and playoff wins and thus he's remembered more favorably than players that were better than him. That's why I think top-ten is appopriate but not top-three or top-five.
    As long as you're not putting Mitch Richmond or Glen Rice ahead of Reggie, I agree. BTW, Reggie was the leading scorer on the 1996 Olympics team playing ahead of Mitch.

    I'll also add one more caveat. I remember at least a dozen games where Smits and McKey were no-shows and Reggie had to dig them out of holes. So while playoff wins is a team accomplishment, Reggie was the one that hit a record 320 3-pointers during the playoffs that propelled the Pacers to many of those close wins.
    Last edited by naptownmenace; 09-12-2012 at 05:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Right. I'm using them as examples of many players that had higher peaks, but less longevity, than Reggie. Their careers weren't better because they faded faster, but if Reggie faded just as fast as they did we wouldn't be having conversations about Reggie in the Hall either.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  5. #104
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Right. I'm using them as examples of many players that had higher peaks, but less longevity, than Reggie. Their careers weren't better because they faded faster, but if Reggie faded just as fast as they did we wouldn't be having conversations about Reggie in the Hall either.
    Disagree. He played 18 years, even if you cut it short 6 whole years he still played 12 years and MOST of his huge playoff performances happened within that time span. I'm just not buying your argument at all man, lol... And you're selling him short on his actual longevity, which in of itself is impressive. He didn't make it into the Hall because he played 18 years. You really seem to have forgotten what this guy did. Go YouTube the man, and take a trip down memory lane, he was a beast of a player for a looooong time.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Right. Reggie won playoff games and series with more regularity than players that were better than him.
    This just makes no sense. If he was regularly winning playoff games over a span of a decade and a half over all these "better" players, do you really start to believe he was "worse" than the players he's beating regularly? It's not like Reggie's teams remained static during his run. His team changed constantly, and Reggie was ALWAYS the face/leader of that team, going up against the likes of Jordan and not being embarrassed at all. He wasn't "worse" than those guys. He was.... better. He made his teams better, he willed them to be better. He was almost like Peyton, where the level of work he put in, the professionalism, the example he set... set the tone for the entire team. Every player on his teams had their best years when they played with him. Every one. They all went off and generally had worse production. And at the end of the game, he was so damn good, that he could say "alright guys, we got here together, now give me the ball and I'll show you how to win this thing" and he did it.

    You're just not going anywhere with this argument, he was an all-time great player, whether you think it or not.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    I think how you rank shooting guards depends on what you look for in a shooting guard. Do you value shooting more? Or do you value scoring more? While they are related, they are two different things. In case of AI and Wade, they are really good scorers, and honestly better that Reggie in that respect. But as a shooter, they just aren't reliable if they are not driving to the basket. I respect the way they play, especially AI because he's one small guy on the floor but never fears contact and physical game. In Wade's case, the problem I see with him is that in recent years he depended on contact (read: getting fouls) more to get points, thus you see him constantly whining at the refs if he didn't get the fouls. For a player that has great tools, he's under-utilizing it recently. Well for Wade he still has time to solidify his position in the rankings as a top SG so if he starts playing like his old self he can easily be a top-3, but for now I think he's a little below Reggie.

    What makes Reggie Miller truly great? His shooting percentage is just way above most shooting guards from the past and the present. That's efficiency for a position that never truly is efficient (high-scoring shooting guards are commonly high-volume shooters). Now you may argue that he's just averaging 18ppg in the regular season for his entire career. Well, he's in a situation where the system plays offense as a team, and yeah he's not really the athletic-type that can just score without the help of screens or can shake his defender on the dribble drive. But his value in the playoffs is where he's most remarkable. Increasing scoring average every playoffs while maintaining that high shooting efficiency is not something common even in big-name players. Add the heroics and the theatrics, and you just get a top-caliber shooting guard in the NBA. For me, he's a top-5 player in his position. Homer-ranked, maybe. But that's just how I value him as a shooting guard, a player that has great shooting range, has reliable free throw shooting, and simply clutch when you needed a basket.

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  10. #107
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I don't get how you can't put Wade and Kobe ahead. Iverson is arguable because he had the skills but not the longevity. Allen, however, is about as close as you can get to Reggie based on his effect on the game - what do you see that puts Reggie ahead of him other than some high-visibility playoff performances?
    I agree with Kobe but I wouldn't put Wade ahead of Reggie. He only managed 1 championship with Shaq and at least one season so far he didn't win a championship with Lebron/Bosh. Then you look at what he did without those guys and his teams were awful. Wade has had his moment but quite frankly, I thought the the refs made sure the Heat beat the Mavs the first time around. He was getting every phantom foul in the book after being down 0-2 to the Mavs. He went on to break Jordan's record for free throws? At the end of the day, he has two championships but I don't think the first one was legit and he was so bad at leading the Heat at one point that they were able to land the #2 overall pick. His list was top 12 and he had wade 4. I'm sorry but I think I could come up with a number of shooting guards all time that would lead their team to a better record than the #2 pick. Even if they had one of the worst rosters in the NBA that season.
    Last edited by TOP; 09-13-2012 at 10:39 AM.

  11. #108
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    You're just not going anywhere with this argument, he was an all-time great player, whether you think it or not.
    Show me exactly where I said he wasn't an all-time top-ten SG? You're just firing back at me without trying to understand my point, which is more subtle than nuclear. Yeesh.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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