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Thread: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    1. MJ
    2. West
    3. Kobe
    4. Drexler
    5. Reggie
    6. Gervin
    7. Maravich
    8. Monroe
    9. Allen
    10. Dumars


    Wade: Come back in 4 or 5 years then I will feel comfortable ranking him as his career winds down. Until then he has way too much time left to be in this discussion.

    AI: For a guy who is known mostly for his scoring he was pretty bad at it. Yeah, he scored a lot because he had the ball all of the time, but hey if Stephenson controls the ball 75% of the time your team is on offense he is going to end up with a lot of points. It just might come at 41% shooting. AI might be one of the all-time great dribblers, but he is hardly an all-time great SG.
    You do realize Wade has been in the league just as long as Pete Maravich was? You know the same Pete Maravich who never won a title and only made the playoffs 4 times.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    While true, fewer have had their games elevated by preferential treatment as much as Iverson.
    You really think Iverson was getting preferential treatment from the NBA and the refs? Say what you want about the guy everywhere else in his life but he put his body on the line to draw fouls. He was fearless with the ball in his hands. Of all the players to suggest getting preferential treatment, Iverson seems pretty unlikely. I imagine few superstars have caused more headaches for Stern.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    You do realize Wade has been in the league just as long as Pete Maravich was? You know the same Pete Maravich who never won a title and only made the playoffs 4 times.
    You realize I don't care. I don't judge about how long their career is, or how well their team does. I care about whether or not their career is over, or near over. Until that point it is like comparing Apples to Bananas.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    You realize I don't care. I don't judge about how long their career is, or how well their team does. I care about whether or not their career is over, or near over. Until that point it is like comparing Apples to Bananas.
    What could Wade possibly do that would put him below Pete? If Wade scores 2 points a game and stays around for 10 more years and never makes the playoffs again his accomplishments would still put him above.
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Longevity is one of the most overrated things in sports. Now, I'm not saying it's not important, but I do feel we as Pacer fans like to put a lot of emphasis on it, because it happens to be one of Reggie's big "plus points". However, if a guy only played 8 years in the league and during those 8 years won 6 championships and then retired, he would still be one of the greatest players of all time. Longevity is definitely worth something, but it's only so much. Heck, just ask Pistol Pete himself.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    It's immediately clear that Reggie's playoff stats are better than Ray's. Miller averaged over 30ppg two separate times and Allen never broke 27ppg. When Allen did finally make it to the finals, it was on the backs of Garnett and Pierce. Miller could have done the same thing. Taking nothing away from Ray, Reggie was simply a more dangerous offensive player in the playoffs or during big games for that matter. He was a leader and provided swagger to boot along with a higher scoring average in the playoffs........
    You swayed me. I looked at their stats and scoring in the final 5 minutes and I think overall, Reggie has had a better career.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by sportfireman View Post
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    MJ. Kobe........ ??? Reggie
    MJ is easily #1. I can argue Kobe being #2. Reggie is definitely in the top 5
    "We want Miami"

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
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    MJ is easily #1. I can argue Kobe being #2. Reggie is definitely in the top 5
    Who would you put in the top 10?

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    I rank Reggie a no brainer top 10, arguably top 5 SG. MJ, Kobe, Drexler, I guess Wade, but after that arguments can be made.

    How can some of these guys be ahead of Reggie when they were not even the top guy/go to guy on their own teams, mainly talking about Ray Allen, Dumars, even Jerry West played with a team of HOFers. Reggie out played AI and Ray in the playoffs when they were both in their prime and the main men on there respective teams.

    If Reggie had played with some of the teammates these guys played with he'd have several rings. Reggie came to a team that had only made the playoffs a few times in there NBA history. They then made the playoffs 15 out of 18 years. I know, It was not ALL Reggie of course, but players and coaches came and went and Reggie still keep winning games till the very end. He scored 39 points on Kobe and beat the Lakers at 39 years old.

    What if Ray never went to the Celtics, how would he be perceived different, a guy that was a great shooter, but rarely even made the playoffs and never won crap? What if Wade never played with Shaq or Lebron. Would he just be a big time talented scorer who never won anything (Mitch Richmond)?
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Because Oscar was a point guard and perhaps the best overall guard in the history of the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Why is everyone leaving off the Big 'O'?

    1. Michael Jordan
    2. Kobe Bryant
    3. Oscar Robertson
    4. Jerry West
    5. Clyde Drexler
    6. Allen Iverson
    7. Dwyane Wade
    8. Reggie Miller
    9. George Gervin
    10. Joe Dumars


    Reggie's number 1 in my heart though. He's my all-time favorite player but that doesn't mean I can't try to be objective about where he stands compared to other Shooting Guards. I think 8th is about right.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Wade has already won two titles. Past his prime? Were you guys watching in game 4 against our very own Pacers?
    Did you watch game 3?
    "We want Miami"

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coopdog23 View Post
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    Did you watch game 3?
    So he can't have a bad game?

    Wade isn't 2006 or 2009 Wade anymore, but he is still pretty damn good.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    It's immediately clear that Reggie's playoff stats are better than Ray's. Miller averaged over 30ppg two separate times and Allen never broke 27ppg. When Allen did finally make it to the finals, it was on the backs of Garnett and Pierce. Miller could have done the same thing. Taking nothing away from Ray, Reggie was simply a more dangerous offensive player in the playoffs or during big games for that matter. He was a leader and provided swagger to boot along with a higher scoring average in the playoffs........
    What irks me about the Allen/Miller debate is that Ray Allen has never taken his team on his back and made a deep playoff run. Maybe Ray is a better shooter then Reggie, but Miller was a better leader and competitor when it mattered in the playoffs.
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    The Allen/Miller debate will always be unfair to both of them. They were never in comparable situations. Just my take on it, similar play styles, yes, but never really similar situations.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Big O was definitely not in SA. That's my bad... I had just got done looking at Gervin's tab, but my point still stands. With O, he was Lebron James before Lebron. Dominated the ball a lot from what I know. I clearly wasn't around then to know his game as much as more current players. He played some SF, but he [primarily played with bigger players in bigger lineups. It seemed to be a "give it to O and rebound the **** out of the ball" type of game and therefore he played in a lot of lineups with three forwards. It's like Kobe and Lebron. He typically is the guy that brings the ball up or is handling the ball most of the time and his PGs are more relegated to spreading the floor and defending quicker guys than doing the major ball handling duties.

    If you put O in the discussion of SGs he is there near the top. I don't see how he can be a PG with his size, the guys he guarded and the smaller guys who played next to him, i.e. Adrien Smith. If I am way off in my assessment, could some people who know from watching the games tell me if I am way off.
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Obviously I didn't see him live, but when I've seen clips of him on youtube or on Classic, I would always call him a PG and that is usually how he is described by "experts". I can certainly see where his size and other factors could make him a two, but I would call him a PG first.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    Big O was definitely not in SA. That's my bad... I had just got done looking at Gervin's tab, but my point still stands. With O, he was Lebron James before Lebron. Dominated the ball a lot from what I know. I clearly wasn't around then to know his game as much as more current players. He played some SF, but he [primarily played with bigger players in bigger lineups. It seemed to be a "give it to O and rebound the **** out of the ball" type of game and therefore he played in a lot of lineups with three forwards. It's like Kobe and Lebron. He typically is the guy that brings the ball up or is handling the ball most of the time and his PGs are more relegated to spreading the floor and defending quicker guys than doing the major ball handling duties.

    If you put O in the discussion of SGs he is there near the top. I don't see how he can be a PG with his size, the guys he guarded and the smaller guys who played next to him, i.e. Adrien Smith. If I am way off in my assessment, could some people who know from watching the games tell me if I am way off.
    From what I always understood clearly defined positions like POINT guard and SHOOTING guard didn't come around until about 30 years or so, give or take. Before then, there were guards, forwards, and posts. This is why guys like Jerry West, Big O, etc were good scorers but also averaged high assist numbers as well, or why guys like Elgin Baylor (who was 6-5) was a double double machine. Players tended to just play to having clearly defined "roles"

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Longevity is one of the most overrated things in sports. Now, I'm not saying it's not important, but I do feel we as Pacer fans like to put a lot of emphasis on it, because it happens to be one of Reggie's big "plus points". However, if a guy only played 8 years in the league and during those 8 years won 6 championships and then retired, he would still be one of the greatest players of all time. Longevity is definitely worth something, but it's only so much. Heck, just ask Pistol Pete himself.
    You and Sparky don't seem to be reading what I am saying. I don't care when their career is over, all I care about is it being over. This has nothing to do with anything else, nothing to do with how good I think Wade is or how long he plays. All I care about is whether or not if his career is over or near over.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    You and Sparky don't seem to be reading what I am saying. I don't care when their career is over, all I care about is it being over. This has nothing to do with anything else, nothing to do with how good I think Wade is or how long he plays. All I care about is whether or not if his career is over or near over.
    Why is that all you care about? You have kobe at 3, Allen at 9.

  27. #70
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    I judge Wade not even off his rings... I think the knock on him is that he sort of rode 2 legends to those 2 rings. But he's still a damned good, dynamic 2-guard. At least offensively.
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I think the knock on him is that he sort of rode 2 legends to those 2 rings.
    Wade (and the refs) won the 06 Finals. Shaq didn't break 20 points in any of the Finals games. Shaq was great against Chicago and Detroit though.

    Wade was without question the best player on an NBA championship team. That can never be taken away from him.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Wade (and the refs) won the 06 Finals. Shaq didn't break 20 points in any of the Finals games. Shaq was great against Chicago and Detroit though.

    Wade was without question the best player on an NBA championship team. That can never be taken away from him.
    I still think people discount how important Shaq was, He was still a dominant big man. Wade blew up (and the refs) in the finals but Shaq was still the man on that team IMO. Shaq could have teamed up with several different teams and probably took them to the finals at that time (before his fast decline). The same could not be said of Wade.
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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    What irks me about the Allen/Miller debate is that Ray Allen has never taken his team on his back and made a deep playoff run. Maybe Ray is a better shooter then Reggie, but Miller was a better leader and competitor when it mattered in the playoffs.
    Just another little tidbit on their career numbers. Ray's FT% was higher in the regular season. Reggie's was higher in the playoffs (and higher than Ray's). Ray's PPG average was 20 in the regular season and 18.2 in the playoffs. Reggie's were basically flipped, again operating at a higher level against stronger competition...not piling up numbers against weak teams. If they had one shot to make they would both be good choices. I would probably give the ball to Reggie.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Look I take Iverson off the top ten list, he was a ball hog and detrimental to his teams success, it makes you wonder how he ever got to the finals, aside from a terrible East at the height of his prime.
    He was in the finals with a very limited 76ers because he was that good. I think some of you don't remember the way he took the games with his scoring.

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    Default Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    AI was definitely a more talented player than Miller by some distance. IMO, he was better than Wade and rivaled Kobe on offense.

    As good as he was, he certainly helped his teams win. But his talent level didn't fully translate to making his team that much better. Players would often just watch the AI show and it worked quite a bit. But it stunted the team's growth at times. At the same time, he didn't have the best teams throughout his career...yet I don't think that changes what I'm saying.

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