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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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Title of the Article
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Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

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  • #16
    Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
    How has D-Wade not done enough for you to be above Reggie, but Ray Allen has? That makes no sense to me.
    DWade probably is better at this point in only 9 years, (but its my little homering mechanism that is coming out). I see DWade's body breaking down quickly, but that is foresight. In terms of ability he is higher than Reggie and Ray, but that is not necessarily the question. James Flight White would be in this conversation then. We are talking All-Time. I think Ray Allen's 16-year career has been better than Reggie and AI and even DWade at this point. Ray was unbelievably good for many years and his numbers would have been better if he hadn't taken a lesser role in Boston. He just isn't top echelon. None of these guys are. DWade could enter that top echelon by the time his career is over. He has played nine seasons and his body has taken a beating. If his career wanes more like Iverson, then his career totals won't be as good. DWade is the better talent and his averages are better. I'm not arguing that. Longevity is a huge thing as careers go and Ray and Reggie both have that. I think people are associating Ray's career moreso with what he is now and not what he was in Seattle and Milwaukee. People forget how good he was and many never got to see him play a whole lot. Reggie's playoff numbers are what bring him up the ladder so much. Ray has a championship that AI and (gulp) Reggie don't. (GOD IT HURTS).

    We are splitting hairs with these guys.... don't get me wrong. I guess it is more of an interpretation of the question than it is anything. And prioritizing certain aspects over others... i.e. AI's scoring versus his brutal defense, Longevity, etc.
    Last edited by pacergod2; 09-05-2012, 10:57 AM.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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    • #17
      Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

      Did you just compare Wade to James White? 0.o


      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

        Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
        Did you just compare Wade to James White? 0.o
        Did you read what I wrote?!?! 0.o
        "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

          Originally posted by pacergod2 View Post
          DWade probably is better at this point in only 9 years, (but its my little homering mechanism that is coming out). I see DWade's body breaking down quickly, but that is foresight. In terms of ability he is higher than Reggie and Ray, but that is not necessarily the question. James Flight White would be in this conversation then. We are talking All-Time. I think Ray Allen's 16-year career has been better than Reggie and AI and even DWade at this point. Ray was unbelievably good for many years and his numbers would have been better if he hadn't taken a lesser role in Boston. He just isn't top echelon. None of these guys are. DWade could enter that top echelon by the time his career is over. He has played nine seasons and his body has taken a beating. If his career wanes more like Iverson, then his career totals won't be as good. DWade is the better talent and his averages are better. I'm not arguing that. Longevity is a huge thing as careers go and Ray and Reggie both have that. I think people are associating Ray's career moreso with what he is now and not what he was in Seattle and Milwaukee. People forget how good he was and many never got to see him play a whole lot. Reggie's playoff numbers are what bring him up the ladder so much. Ray has a championship that AI and (gulp) Reggie don't. (GOD IT HURTS).

          We are splitting hairs with these guys.... don't get me wrong. I guess it is more of an interpretation of the question than it is anything. And prioritizing certain aspects over others... i.e. AI's scoring versus his brutal defense, Longevity, etc.

          Wade may be passed his prime. We're not sure
          Smothered Chicken!

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          • #20
            Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

            Wade has already won two titles. Past his prime? Were you guys watching in game 4 against our very own Pacers?


            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

              Why is everyone leaving off the Big 'O'?

              1. Michael Jordan
              2. Kobe Bryant
              3. Oscar Robertson
              4. Jerry West
              5. Clyde Drexler
              6. Allen Iverson
              7. Dwyane Wade
              8. Reggie Miller
              9. George Gervin
              10. Joe Dumars


              Reggie's number 1 in my heart though. He's my all-time favorite player but that doesn't mean I can't try to be objective about where he stands compared to other Shooting Guards. I think 8th is about right.

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              • #22
                Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                Wade has already won two titles. Past his prime? Were you guys watching in game 4 against our very own Pacers?
                Yes I did. I never said he was past his prime. I said he may never have the longevity of the other guys I am comparing him to. Longevity is a skill in this league. We don't have anybody in this discusssion that didn't play in the league for 15 years outside of Wade and that is because of his tremendous talent. The other guys have longevity on him. That is a huge reason why so many players don't ever come close to being in this discussion.

                If James White wasn't a complete idiot, he had all the talent and athleticism in the world to be great. Unfortunately for himself he was his own biggest problem. There are so many players who were more athletic and talented than guys like Reggie and Ray, but couldn't sniff their jock straps.
                "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                  James White wasn't that talented. Good athlete, but not a great talent.

                  Anyway, Big O was a PG no?


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                    1. MJ
                    2. Kobe
                    3. Oscar--Hey he played it a bit
                    4. West-Although I see him as the greatest combo guard ever.
                    5. Wade
                    6. Clyde
                    7. Maravich- He guarded SGs, but ran the show from what my dad said.
                    8. Gervin
                    9. Dumars
                    10. Ray Allen
                    11. Reggie
                    12. AI
                    I put Dumars so high because of his defense. I really think Reggie and Ray are a push. But I think if Ray takes another, he will be above. AI is 11. His career FG% is 42%. If had played more selectively I would have put him higher.
                    Last edited by Major Cold; 09-05-2012, 02:26 PM. Reason: Left Wade off after revision

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                    • #25
                      Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                      Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post
                      Why is everyone leaving off the Big 'O'?

                      1. Michael Jordan
                      2. Kobe Bryant
                      3. Oscar Robertson
                      4. Jerry West
                      5. Clyde Drexler
                      6. Allen Iverson
                      7. Dwyane Wade
                      8. Reggie Miller
                      9. George Gervin
                      10. Joe Dumars


                      Reggie's number 1 in my heart though. He's my all-time favorite player but that doesn't mean I can't try to be objective about where he stands compared to other Shooting Guards. I think 8th is about right.
                      I always thought O was a SF. Same with Pistol Pete, I thought he was a PG. There are some of these guys that aren't exactly SG. I have a hard time calling AI a SG.
                      "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                        Originally posted by Major Cold View Post
                        1. MJ
                        2. Kobe
                        3. Oscar--Hey he played it a bit
                        4. West-Although I see him as the greatest combo guard ever.
                        5. Clyde
                        6. Maravich- He guarded SGs, but ran the show from what my dad said.
                        7. Gervin
                        8. Dumars
                        9. Ray Allen
                        10. Reggie

                        I put Dumars so high because of his defense. I really think Reggie and Ray are a push. But I think if Ray takes another, he will be above. AI is 11. His career FG% is 42%. If had played more selectively I would have put him higher.
                        Wade not even in the top ten???

                        We are talking a guy who has two championships, one of the greatest final performances of all time (blame the refs all you want, but Wade was the most aggressive player on the court and was rewarded), he has averaged 25 PPG on almost 50% shooting. Is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA, and perhaps the best shot blocker from the shooting guard position ever.

                        He's already been in the league for a decade, so are some of you that concerned with an extra 5 years of work? I mean Maravich was only in the league for ten freaking years and never won a title. Heck, he only made it to the playoffs 4 times and you've got him 6th on your list.
                        Last edited by Trader Joe; 09-05-2012, 02:17 PM.


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                        • #27
                          Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                          Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                          Wade not even in the top ten???

                          We are talking a guy who has two championships, one of the greatest final performances of all time (blame the refs all you want, but Wade was the most aggressive player on the court and was rewarded), he has averaged 25 PPG on almost 50% shooting. Is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA, and perhaps the best shot blocker from the shooting guard position ever.

                          He's already been in the league for a decade, so are some of you that concerned with an extra 5 years of work? I mean Maravich was only in the league for ten freaking years and never won a title. Heck, he only made it to the playoffs 4 times and you've got him 6th on your list.
                          Crap I deleted him when I moved Oscar in. He is above Clyde. And will surpass West soon

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                            Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                            See I guess to me I always thought of Maravich as a PG, but I guess he really was more of a combo guard/shooter. It's tough for me to not put Reggie in the top 10, but I absolutely could not put him top 5 either. To me MJ, Kobe, West, Wade, and maybe Iverson are unquestionably above Reggie. Of course I could see where on a non Pacers board Reggie might not even crack top 15. Certainly his memorable playoff performances give him a huge boost.

                            Most non Pacers fans I know have him top 20-25.

                            A few people dont even have him as a HOF'er, but that is a debate for another day.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                              Originally posted by vapacersfan View Post
                              A few people dont even have him as a HOF'er, but that is a debate for another day.
                              Not much of a debate as of Friday
                              Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                                In his era, Reggie was the 3rd best sg behind MJ and Drexler. For the following generation, Kobe is clearly better, but after him you could argue that Reggie was better than AI and Ray Allen. I would say that Wade is better than Reggie. I would put reggie as number 5 SG of all time when you consider how he performed in the playoffs
                                Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

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