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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

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  • #31
    Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

    Originally posted by vapacersfan View Post
    Most non Pacers fans I know have him top 20-25.

    A few people dont even have him as a HOF'er, but that is a debate for another day.
    I've only seen Bill Simmons write this nonsense
    Being unable to close out a game in which you have a comfortable lead in the 4th Q = Pulling a Frank Vogel

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

      It doesn't really matter to me, all I know is that he is one of the best.
      Turner and Young are THE FUTURE!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

        just a reminder... a replay of "Looking back at Reggie" is coming on at 6 on NBATV for those who hadn't gotten a chance to watch it yet ....
        "Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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        • #34
          Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

          Much of Iverson's success was due to preferential treatment from the refs. Wade is the only guy I've seen who gets more.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

            1. MJ
            2. West
            3. Kobe
            4. Drexler
            5. Reggie
            6. Gervin
            7. Maravich
            8. Monroe
            9. Allen
            10. Dumars


            Wade: Come back in 4 or 5 years then I will feel comfortable ranking him as his career winds down. Until then he has way too much time left to be in this discussion.

            AI: For a guy who is known mostly for his scoring he was pretty bad at it. Yeah, he scored a lot because he had the ball all of the time, but hey if Stephenson controls the ball 75% of the time your team is on offense he is going to end up with a lot of points. It just might come at 41% shooting. AI might be one of the all-time great dribblers, but he is hardly an all-time great SG.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

              1. MJ
              2. Oscar
              3. Kobe
              4. West
              5. Clyde
              6. Gervin
              7. Wade
              8. Allen
              9. Reggie
              10. Pearl

              I don't count Pistol Pete or AI as SG. This list leaves guys like Nique, Barry, English, Erving, and Havlicek off who were more forward than guard. In Oscar Robertson's best years in SA, they used bigger lineups with him at SG so I included him. This list gets real different real quick when you add Erving to the SG spot, but again he primarily played SF in their best lineups in Philly and with the Nets.
              "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                1. MJ
                2. Kobe
                3. West
                4. Drexler
                5. Gervin
                6. Wade
                7. Thompson
                8. Iverson
                9. Allen
                10. Reggie

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                  Originally posted by Shade View Post
                  Much of Iverson's success was due to preferential treatment from the refs. Wade is the only guy I've seen who gets more.
                  The referees treated Reggie pretty well too, in fact many of those top 10 sg's were helped by the referees during their entire career, Kobe,MJ,Reggie,Iverson, etc, etc.
                  @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                    I agree with most everyone who's putting Reg at the bottom of the top ten. Obviously Kobe, MJ and West are the top 3. I honestly never thought of D Wade as a top 2 guard historically but he has had a pretty great career do far. Guys like AI, Mitch Richmond, and Clyde Drexler were all easily more talented than Reggie ever was.

                    One of the things that made Reggie so great was the fact that he wasn't as talented, or as athletic as a lot of these other guys, yet you always felt that he could not only compete with other greats, but that he could BEAT other greats. He's the ultimate "big game" player who would take his game to another level when the stakes were the highest.

                    Whether he's a top 10 2-guard historically or not, Reggie is the man.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                      Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post
                      Why is everyone leaving off the Big 'O'?
                      I've always thought Oscar was a point guard.

                      Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post
                      B]Reggie's number 1 in my heart though. He's my all-time favorite player but that doesn't mean I can't try to be objective about where he stands compared to other Shooting Guards.[/B] I think 8th is about right.
                      I think on this we can pretty much all agree. If you're posting on this board, Reggie is a major reason why.
                      "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

                      -Lance Stephenson

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                        I don't get this ranking Ray Allen ahead of Reggie? Allen is an all-time great player no doubt, but he was never on the same level as Reggie.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                          Originally posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
                          I've always thought Oscar was a point guard.
                          Same here... And I thought the same about Jerry West... I guess mainly because both of these guys averaged close to 10 APG at one point in their career...
                          Nothing in life worth having comes easy.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                            Originally posted by J7F View Post
                            Same here... And I thought the same about Jerry West... I guess mainly because both of these guys averaged close to 10 APG at one point in their career...
                            I thought the same, then when I looked around everyone ranks him with SGs, so I decided to include him in my list.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                              Look I take Iverson off the top ten list, he was a ball hog and detrimental to his teams success, it makes you wonder how he ever got to the finals, aside from a terrible East at the height of his prime.

                              I think its very hard to argue that Wade is top 5. He relies too much on the refs to be considered elite. He has had great numbers in his career, but he has never done anything in this league when not paired up with another dominant player. That is a fact. Reggie Miller had no problem carrying his teams to great playoff successes. When wade was the man the Miami Heat were a fringe playoff team. Also i think more so than any other player on the list, Wade relies on a screen at the top of the key to make his move to the rim. In my opinion Wade's only redeeming quality that makes him elite is his ability to finish around the rim, so he is top 10. But not top 5.
                              You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Where does Reggie Miller rank in your opinion on the all time shooting guard list?

                                Wade, as much as I dislike him, is better than Reggie. Reggie is not in the top 5, but probably in the top 10. As others have said, in the playoffs he raised his game. The fact is, he could have produced more during the regular season and showed that very early in his career. But getting his numbers wasn't important. Not until the close of the games.

                                The difference with Miller is that you knew who would be shooting the ball...but guys still couldn't stop him from getting that shot off. THAT is why Reggie is better than so many other SG's....because getting a shot off at crunch time during the playoffs may be the most important thing a SG can do.

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