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Thread: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

  1. #1601

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    The only exception to the mantra of "win the Big 10 and then we'll see what happens next" was of course 1976, when everyone knew that anything less than finishing undefeated and with a national championship was indeed failure, having been 32-1 the year before and returning everyone but Lazkowski and Green

    I know it was pre-internet and everything, but that team played with a TON of pressure and enormous expectations. It was so bad that even as a fan, winning it all was not only a joy, but also somewhat of a relief. It sounds strange, but I remember the "Yeah... Wow! But it should have been two!" feeling even as a kid.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  2. #1602
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Dakich just now has a co-host on from Purdue today, attractive blonde sorority girl (apparently the do exist there) who is his intern, best quote from him "Is anyone from Purdue doing anything, other than working for people from IU?"

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  3. #1603
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I think his comments come off as classless. Damon Bailey, Alan Henderson, and Calbert Cheney "never won anything" either, yet I doubt he would appreciate it if someone took a cheap shot at them.
    Bailey, Henderson, Graham, Graham, Cheaney, Nover, Reynolds, etc. were Big Ten champions in '91 and '93, something the Fab Five never accomplished (Even Jim Jackson led Ohio State to the Big Ten championship in '92 over the Fab Five (Indiana was second, Michigan third in the conference.)

    So that cheap shot would have been inaccurate.

    Michigan's Fab Five never won anything - Big Ten or NCAA title. did they win a Holiday tournament somewhere? Maybe.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  4. #1604
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    The only exception to the mantra of "win the Big 10 and then we'll see what happens next" was of course 1976, when everyone knew that anything less than finishing undefeated and with a national championship was indeed failure, having been 32-1 the year before and returning everyone but Lazkowski and Green

    I know it was pre-internet and everything, but that team played with a TON of pressure and enormous expectations. It was so bad that even as a fan, winning it all was not only a joy, but also somewhat of a relief. It sounds strange, but I remember the "Yeah... Wow! But it should have been two!" feeling even as a kid.

    Yeah, that loss in '75 put enormous pressure on them. Even as a small child, I remember how much my parents were in tune with everything that happened with the '76 team.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  5. #1605
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    I suppose any elite program has its share of unfortunate occurrences, but IU has had maybe more than it's fair share.

    I'd say our 2nd, 3rd, and 6th best team won titles, and the 7th, 8th, and 10th best had a shot

    1975- injury to May
    1976*
    1981*
    1993- injury to Henderson
    1992-robbed by a corrupt ref named Ted Valentine
    1987*
    1973- charge / block call Downing /Bill Walton in semis was the turning point
    1980 -season-ending injuries to Randy Wittman and Mike Woodson

    ----
    1974- couldn't finish second in the Big 10 back then, even if you were a top 5 team!
    2002-maximized our potential

    I'd like to slot this team anywhere in there, and hang a star next to it!
    The '83 team deserves special mention. Kitchell's back injury to the Then-#1 team was devastating. And that team "would" have had Zeke and Landon Turner as seniors. That team was better, before Kitchell's injury, than the 92/93 teams (IMO, of course.)

    There's a reason that's the only Big Ten Champs banner hanging up there.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  7. #1606
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Bailey, Henderson, Graham, Graham, Cheaney, Nover, Reynolds, etc. were Big Ten champions in '91 and '93, something the Fab Five never accomplished (Even Jim Jackson led Ohio State to the Big Ten championship in '92 over the Fab Five (Indiana was second, Michigan third in the conference.)

    So that cheap shot would have been inaccurate.

    Michigan's Fab Five never won anything - Big Ten or NCAA title. did they win a Holiday tournament somewhere? Maybe.
    So winning Big Ten Championships is "winning something", but going to back to back Final Fours isn't? I realize that the Final Fours were vacated, but Michigan still played the games and beat quality opponents to get there, i.e. Kentucky in the 1993 Final Four. IU may have won the Big Ten Championship in 1993, but Michigan went all the way to the final game and therefore had the better season (I realize Henderson was injured that year). No one would rather win the conference than play in the championship game.

  8. #1607
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Dakich just now has a co-host on from Purdue today, attractive blonde sorority girl (apparently the do exist there) who is his intern, best quote from him "Is anyone from Purdue doing anything, other than working for people from IU?"
    Dakich just couldn't resist, eh? Tangentially, there are a fair number of people from IU, myself included, who work at Purdue. Nearly one-third of the people in my department have a degree from IU. We're everywhere.
    Take me out to the black, tell 'em I ain't coming back. Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.

  9. #1608
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    So winning Big Ten Championships is "winning something", but going to back to back Final Fours isn't? I realize that the Final Fours were vacated, but Michigan still played the games and beat quality opponents to get there, i.e. Kentucky in the 1993 Final Four. IU may have won the Big Ten Championship in 1993, but Michigan went all the way to the final game and therefore had the better season (I realize Henderson was injured that year). No one would rather win the conference than play in the championship game.
    Back in the day, winning an 18-game double-round-robin was more impressive than getting hot and advancing, but not winning, a one-and-done tournament like the NCAA.

    I'm not saying that view still stands. But the explosion in tournament popularity that began in '79 didn't weaken the accomplishment of winning the Big Ten title. The elimination of the double-round-robin and then the Big Ten tournament eventually weakened the accomplishment of winning the Big Ten title.

    I guess I'm old school enough to say that I don't look at losing in the national title game as a better accomplishment than winning the old-style Big Ten championship.

    Now if you're talking about the Big Ten tourney, which is just "who was the hottest team this weekend", then sure...
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  10. #1609

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Everyone, I think, would rather win a conference championship than not win a conference championship.
    Everyone, I think, would rather have all their wins recognized as legitimate rather than having stricken from the record books as being tainted.

    If Kelvin Sampson had somehow coached IU to an NCAA title and then had it vacated, I would now say that the team he coached and that vacated title would be blemishes on IU's history and should never be honored for anything.

    Sounds harsh, but the Fab Five to me was a fraud. They were dirty and paid off from day 1. Since we have been talking in a historical context, it's interesting also to recognize that they never would have even made it to the NCAA tournament, EVEN ONCE, by the rules existing before 1975.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 02-01-2013 at 02:58 PM.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Everyone, I think, would rather win a conference championship than not win a conference championship.
    Everyone, I think, would rather have all their wins recognized as legitimate rather than having stricken from the record books as being tainted.

    If Kelvin Sampson had somehow coached IU to an NCAA title and then had it vacated, I would now say that the team he coached and that vacated title would be blemishes on IU's history and should never be honored for anything.

    Sounds harsh, but the Fab Five to me was a fraud. They were dirty and paid off from day 1. Since we have been talking in a historical context, it's interesting also to recognize that they never would have even made it to the NCAA tournament, EVEN ONCE, by the rules existing before 1975.
    I doubt this very much.
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I doubt this very much.
    Why? I am so glad that team flamed out.

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  13. #1612
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...sketball-games

    1. No. 1 Michigan at no. 3 Indiana, Saturday, 9 p.m., ESPN

    I've been tough on Indiana all season because I think they're soft, and I'll go ahead and admit that this is essentially my last stand. If I'm wrong and Indiana wins, I'll repent and confess the error of my ways. The evidence will have mounted against me, and I'll sag to the ground in defeat. But for now, optimism prevails. I'm not just expecting a Wolverines win; I'm expecting the Michigan perimeter to dominate. And I'm expecting Burke to carve up Yogi Ferrell or Christian Watford, or, God forbid, Jordan Hulls. And I'm expecting Beilein, an excellent game coach, to take Tom Crean to school. Here I am, readers, putting myself on the line without disclaimers or reservations: Michigan rolls by double digits.
    Welp, that's getting posted in the locker room. Appreciate it whoever the **** you are from Grantland.

  14. #1613
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...sketball-games



    Welp, that's getting posted in the locker room. Appreciate it whoever the **** you are from Grantland.
    Christian Watford? Does this guy even watch college basketball?

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Christian Watford? Does this guy even watch college basketball?
    Not outside of the Research Triangle.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    I don't expect to see Watford on Burke, but didn't we use Watford on point guards intermittently last year and it was actually mildly effective?

    Anyway, I don't think Yogi can stop Burke, but I think Yogi can at least make him take jumpers.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Why? I am so glad that team flamed out.
    Basically because it reeks of pretentiousness. "I could never be a fan of a team who wasn't 100% on the up and up. IU is better than that." Come on. If this year's team wins the title and then 15 years from now it comes out that Watford and Sheehey were given illegal benefits, the IU fanbase (of which I'm a part, though considerably less than you die hards) will not look back in disdain.

    Also, the fact that it was initially said by a Patriots fan does seem a tick hypocritical to me.
    Last edited by BRushWithDeath; 02-01-2013 at 03:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Basically because it reaks of pretentiousness. "I could never be a fan of a team who wasn't 100% on the up and up. IU is better than that." Come on. If this year's team wins the title and then 15 years from now it comes out that Watford and Sheehey were given illegal benefits, the IU fanbase (of which I'm a part, though considerably less than you die hards) will not look back in disdain.

    Also, the fact that it was initially said by a Patriots fan does seem a tick hypocritical to me.
    I guess I can't say for sure how I would react, but it would definitely taint it for me. What would hurt the most if a Sampson team had won would not necessarily be sampson's phone calls, but the players who were on those teams. Most unlikable bunch of pricks in the world other than EJ and White.

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  20. #1618

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    If Watford played for UM he'd be their starting center, I'd think. Grantland is usually a better site than almost all others in analysis, but that was a bizarrely uninformed comment.

    There are probably a few lazy media people out there who will look at a few white guys on the court and will insist that IU has to "slow it down" to win, too.

    I think that someone desk-jockey analyst said that before one of IU's games earlier this year. It might have been Jim Jackson, who actually seemed up-to-speed now, with his analysis in the IU-PU game.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I guess I can't say for sure how I would react, but it would definitely taint it for me. What would hurt the most if a Sampson team had won would not necessarily be sampson's phone calls, but the players who were on those teams. Most unlikable bunch of pricks in the world other than EJ and White.
    The Sampson teams were awful. But it's a lot easier to look back in disgust at a team who flames out in the first round than a team that hangs another of IU's vaunted banners, even if it doesn't get to stay up for eternity. The team may be a complete disaster personality wise, as the Sampson teams undeniably were, but they still had Indiana on their chest. And a better March record would lessen the distaste.
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  22. #1620

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I guess I can't say for sure how I would react, but it would definitely taint it for me. What would hurt the most if a Sampson team had won would not necessarily be sampson's phone calls, but the players who were on those teams. Most unlikable bunch of pricks in the world other than EJ and White.

    ^^this
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  23. #1621

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Dick Vitale is doing the game. For my money, he's now the least informative, most "master of the obvious", most predictable and scripted announcer in all of sports. I like his enthusiasm, but if you watch a tape of him covering a game 20 years ago you notice he tells what happens and why. Now it just "dipdy doo dunkaroo, Uncle Mo is on their side, gotta get a TO baybee, what a PTP-er, a diaper dandy" for over 2 hours.

    He has become a sideshow carnival caricature of himself.

    Sadly, internet radio is too delayed to synch the Don Fisher call.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  24. #1622
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    So winning Big Ten Championships is "winning something", but going to back to back Final Fours isn't? I realize that the Final Fours were vacated, but Michigan still played the games and beat quality opponents to get there, i.e. Kentucky in the 1993 Final Four. IU may have won the Big Ten Championship in 1993, but Michigan went all the way to the final game and therefore had the better season (I realize Henderson was injured that year). No one would rather win the conference than play in the championship game.
    The Fab Five never won anything because those Final Fours were all vacated. If those victories were allowed to stand then I would consider their two year run a success but it technically never happened.

  25. #1623
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    If this year's team wins the title and then 15 years from now it comes out that Watford and Sheehey were given illegal benefits, the IU fanbase (of which I'm a part, though considerably less than you die hards) will not look back in disdain.
    I would look back on it with utter disdain. You have to win and win CLEANLY. It's all a moot point because Crean runs the cleanest of programs and no illegal benefits are being provided to any player and never will.

  26. #1624
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    The Sampson teams were awful. But it's a lot easier to look back in disgust at a team who flames out in the first round than a team that hangs another of IU's vaunted banners, even if it doesn't get to stay up for eternity. The team may be a complete disaster personality wise, as the Sampson teams undeniably were, but they still had Indiana on their chest. And a better March record would lessen the distaste.
    Sampson was 43-15 at IU and 21-8 in the Big Ten. Yes his teams had thugs but they won and those wins still count. Xavier in particular was happy to take Sampson's players and recruits from IU and won a lot of games with them.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Total tangent from tonight's mega battle: I've thought about this long and hard and I've come up with the marquee team I would like to replace Kentucky with on our schedule for home-and-homes in the future: Kansas. I know, not exactly a new concept, but when you see these people weigh in on the best atmospheres in college hoops, Assembly Hall and The Phog are always in the top 3. Midwest bragging rights, two blue blood programs--it would be great fun to watch.

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