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Thread: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    How ever will I dispute this, what with the detailed evidence you provided to the contrary.

    IU has a MUCH larger fanbase, a stadium that seats almost 2X as many people, is located in a state that produces more per capita elite talent than almost any place in the country, and has a state of the art practice facility. I clearly stated that Duke has the obvious advantage in on court success but the numerous factors I mentioned mean a good coach can step in and have immediate significant success at IU and sustain it for a long period of time.

    Feel free to contradict any of this. I won't hold my breath.
    I doubt that IU has a much larger fanbase than a school that has been preeminent college basketball program, nationally, for more than 2 decades but there's no data to support either argument so I'll leave it at that. It also is irrelevant to what I said was laughable.

    You said Duke "has worse facilities" than IU. This is laughable. Sure Assembly Hall has a greater capacity than Cameron Indoor Stadium. I don't think you'll find one impartial observer who would tell you it is better. I personally thought they were both horrible places to watch a game but that is neither here nor there. IU absolutely does have a fantastic practice facility. Cook Hall is immaculate. But you mention that as if Duke is practicing in a field with an oblong hoop mounted to the side of a barn. Do you remember when Krzyzewski "flirted" with taking the Lakers job a few years ago? Well, it was thought that it was really just a ruse to get both a raise and make sure a new basketball practice facility was constructed. Well they built it. And I'm sure, in the immortal words of John Hammond, they spared no expense. IU's facilities are state of the art but that doesn't automatically make them better than Duke (or Kentucky, Kansas, Ohio State, Florida, etc.)

    The fact that Indiana produces wonderful basketball talent is great for IU. But recruiting is a national game. Kids are coming from all over to go to Duke. And Indiana. Nobody in their right mind would think that Duke is going to be tougher to recruit to than Indiana.

    You also said IU has a more complete basketball program than Duke. I don't really know what that means but I don't think anybody outside of southern Indiana would agree with it.
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    There is data to support IU, which is the third largest alumni base in the world.


    Solid Jurassic Park reference though.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    How ever will I dispute this, what with the detailed evidence you provided to the contrary.

    IU has a MUCH larger fanbase, a stadium that seats almost 2X as many people, is located in a state that produces more per capita elite talent than almost any place in the country, and has a state of the art practice facility. I clearly stated that Duke has the obvious advantage in on court success but the numerous factors I mentioned mean a good coach can step in and have immediate significant success at IU and sustain it for a long period of time.

    Feel free to contradict any of this. I won't hold my breath.
    So Duke wins in the only thing that really matters.....

    Do fans around the country care who has the best practice facility? How many people know that IU has such great facilities? I don't know anything about Duke's practice facility. Or Kansas'. Or North Carolina's. Or Kentucky's. I just assume that every decent program has an adequate facility for their team to practice basketball, and that some might be better than others. But it's not something that most people think about. Any player at a quality program is going to have decent facilities at their disposal.

    Duke has been a superior program to IU for 20 plus years. Any young kid playing basketball in the country understands this. People don't use quality of the weight room to compare programs. They use on court success, which is something that IU can't compete with Duke in as far as recent history is concerned. It's great that IU is in a state with quality high school talent, but it's not like IU has enough spots for every great player in Indiana. Purdue had a great class from Indiana and they never made it past the Sweet 16. There is plenty of elite talent in the other 49 states, and kids in every other state outside of Indiana are going to view Duke as the superior program to IU given that IU hasn't been routinely relevant in their lifetime.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 04-02-2013 at 09:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    There is data to support IU, which is the third largest alumni base in the world.


    Solid Jurassic Park reference though.

    Right, but Duke has a ton of fans across the country who will never step foot on the Duke campus. To be fair, there are decent amount of IU fans in Indiana who didn't go to IU either.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Right, but Duke has a ton of fans across the country who will never step foot on the Duke campus. To be fair, there are decent amount of IU fans in Indiana who didn't go to IU either.
    Just as with Notre Dame football, I assume 95% of their fanbase is not alumni.
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Just as with Notre Dame football, I assume 95% of their fanbase is not alumni.
    They're the same people.

    Had to.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    How ever will I dispute this, what with the detailed evidence you provided to the contrary.

    IU has a MUCH larger fanbase, a stadium that seats almost 2X as many people, is located in a state that produces more per capita elite talent than almost any place in the country, and has a state of the art practice facility. I clearly stated that Duke has the obvious advantage in on court success but the numerous factors I mentioned mean a good coach can step in and have immediate significant success at IU and sustain it for a long period of time.

    Feel free to contradict any of this. I won't hold my breath.

    http://www.wralsportsfan.com/rs/story/2410063/

    Duke built brand new facilities just a few years ago. You honestly think that a program like Duke, with the massive tuition with the massive presence nationally, is going to skim on facilities for their athletes?

    Duke (18) has the second most NBA players, in the NBA behind Kentucky (20). Their rececent post season accomplishments don't need to really be provided, so I'm not sure why the number of elite per capita for the state of Indiana has to do with Indiana Unversity. Not all of them go to IU, and Duke has been winning more with "less" talent because they actually CAN recruit.

    It's one thing to love your school, and support it at all cost, but another to act like IU is the only place that has awesome facilities.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    I hadn't really thought about that. There are how many NBA players from this state currently in the NBA? Is it 16? Yet, just 3 (right?) former IU players (Jared Jeffries, Eric Gordon, & D.J. White) are in the NBA and one of them isn't from the state.

    Obviously, having a huge recruiting pool in your backyard can be an advantage but it's not like Kansas and Kentucky are known for producing prep stars. And they've done okay for themselves.
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    They're the same people.

    Had to.
    I'm pretty sure BWD was talking abotu Duke.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    How ever will I dispute this, what with the detailed evidence you provided to the contrary.

    IU has a MUCH larger fanbase, a stadium that seats almost 2X as many people, is located in a state that produces more per capita elite talent than almost any place in the country, and has a state of the art practice facility. I clearly stated that Duke has the obvious advantage in on court success but the numerous factors I mentioned mean a good coach can step in and have immediate significant success at IU and sustain it for a long period of time.

    Feel free to contradict any of this. I won't hold my breath.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/these...ms-2012-1?op=1

    I guess I don't know how you are quantifying IU having a much larger "fanbase." There is a significant difference between a program's fanbase, and a school's alumni base. Duke has been the most relevant program nationally for some time. Regardless of their school's enrollment, it seems likely they have a large enough fanbase that if IU actually has a larger one, it is of minimal significance.

    IU spends the 8th highest amount on its basketball program, in the country. It brings in almost $18 million per year in basketball related revenue, and spends about $8 million per year in basketball expenses. The remaining $10 million in profit is used in other areas of IU's athletic and academic programs.

    Duke spends more money than any other school in the country on basketball. It's basketball program brings in almost $29 million annually, and spends almost $14 million to keep it running. Duke (a private school, that can spend its money however it wants) takes in about $15 million in profit from its basketball program.

    Considering IU's "fanbase" is so much larger, and its arena so much larger, shouldn't it be dominating Duke on the balance sheets? Why is it that Duke is able to spend $6 million more per year on its basketball program, and also earn an additional $11 million in annual revenue for the school?
    Last edited by Mackey_Rose; 04-02-2013 at 11:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I hadn't really thought about that. There are how many NBA players from this state currently in the NBA? Is it 16? Yet, just 3 (right?) former IU players (Jared Jeffries, Eric Gordon, & D.J. White) are in the NBA and one of them isn't from the state.

    Obviously, having a huge recruiting pool in your backyard can be an advantage but it's not like Kansas and Kentucky are known for producing prep stars. And they've done okay for themselves.
    This is a really good story both about how many elite high school basketball players come from Indiana, and how many are staying here.

    http://deadspin.com/infographics-whe...rs-com-5984694

    Indiana, living up to its reputation, may have the strongest high school basketball tradition in the country. With 41 All-Americans in 36 years, Indiana has produced more talent than Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Georgia, all significantly larger states, and trails only Illinois, New York, and California. Adjusting for population size, the Hoosier State blows the field away. Maryland is also a hotbed of talent, as are a handful of Southern states (Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Virginia, and Tennessee), and neighboring Illinois.
    Indiana produces so much talent for its size that it's almost guaranteed to lose a significant chunk of it. Maryland, Mississippi, Virginia, and Georgia are (were) home to the middling schools of the SEC and ACC: the seven major programs in those states have combined for one championship (Maryland, 2002) and only eight Final Four appearances. New Jersey, New York, Georgia, and Illinois are all home to major metropolitan areas that lack their own dominant programs. Major programs in any of these states are a threat to explode every year: All it takes is one great recruiter to make the right pitch.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    I don't mean to be a dick here guys, but we all know Hoosieryguy's game by now and it gets really tiring as an honest to goodness IU fan who doesn't act like an asshat to come in here and constantly have to read you guys trying to debate him. It ruins the thread for all the other IU fans, and I'm not trying to tell you guys how to post just saying that I think maybe we could all just start to ignore him.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I don't mean to be a dick here guys, but we all know Hoosieryguy's game by now and it gets really tiring as an honest to goodness IU fan who doesn't act like an asshat to come in here and constantly have to read you guys trying to debate him. It ruins the thread for all the other IU fans, and I'm not trying to tell you guys how to post just saying that I think maybe we could all just start to ignore him.
    In a year of Purdue sports hell, he's the gift that keeps on giving.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    The one thing that really sucks about all this, is that this thread has forced me to defend Duke. I ****ing hate Duke.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    I love the fact that Indiana produces great basketball players- if it was up to me- the NCAA Tourney champ would come from the either Kentucky or Indiana every year. The dominant football programs mostly reside in the South- Basketball is a different story!

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    I find him rather humorous.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    It just gets really, really old after a while. Every sane person knows Duke is a fantastic basketball program, and probably superior to IU at the moment, but it's depressing to have to read an entire page about it as an IU fan in an IU thread just because one dude gets all PMS every time someone slightly talks down to IU.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    The real question is how can Louisville basketball produce $41 million in revenue? That seems absurd.
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    The real question is how can Louisville basketball produce $41 million in revenue? That seems absurd.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Marquette surprises me....

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    The real question is how can Louisville basketball produce $41 million in revenue? That seems absurd.
    I'm sure there's some tricky accounting going on, not even on Louisville's part, just stuff like this is really hard to get legitimate numbers on. But either way, it's not like Louisville's exactly putting any of their athletic money into academics. It's a freaking commuter school.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I'm sure there's some tricky accounting going on, not even on Louisville's part, just stuff like this is really hard to get legitimate numbers on. But either way, it's not like Louisville's exactly putting any of their athletic money into academics. It's a freaking commuter school.
    http://www.kfcyumcenter.com/

    New arena = gold mine.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Speaking of potentially shady NCAA money, when the hell's Baylor gonna get investigated? The last decade for them doesn't just happen by hiring good coaches. Especially since Scott Drew's a ****** coach.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    http://www.kfcyumcenter.com/

    New arena = gold mine.

    Yeah, Louisville has a brand new palace that is sponsored by the YUM! global conglomerate. That's difference between U of L and IU or UK.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    http://www.wralsportsfan.com/rs/story/2410063/

    Duke built brand new facilities just a few years ago. You honestly think that a program like Duke, with the massive tuition with the massive presence nationally, is going to skim on facilities for their athletes?

    Duke (18) has the second most NBA players, in the NBA behind Kentucky (20). Their rececent post season accomplishments don't need to really be provided, so I'm not sure why the number of elite per capita for the state of Indiana has to do with Indiana Unversity. Not all of them go to IU, and Duke has been winning more with "less" talent because they actually CAN recruit.

    It's one thing to love your school, and support it at all cost, but another to act like IU is the only place that has awesome facilities.
    I never said IU was the only place with awesome facilities. That is a pure strawman on your part.

    My argument, and it is a shame that I have to make it AGAIN, is that IU has the underlying infrastructure that makes it a better program than Duke. Coach K is Duke's program whereas IU has had success under multiple coaches and maintains a rabid and passionate following even after going through very difficult times over the past decade. That is not up for debate.

    Furthermore, am I not entitled to an opinion, especially when I buttress it with reasonable arguments? There are like five or six Butler/PUke nutjobs that just wait around to pounce on anything I say that might be controversial and turn it into an indictment on my personality. It is rather sick behavior.

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