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Thread: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

  1. #2851
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    I actually think that Zeller will slip into the middle of the first round or in the early 20's. He has not had a good game against high level competition for a while. His flaws are on display, short arms just like his brothers. Not enough athleticism and not enough size to make up for it. Dude got blocked 5-6 times against Cuse.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I actually think that Zeller will slip into the middle of the first round or in the early 20's.
    In this crappy draft? Not a chance in hell.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by PacersHomer View Post
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    Why does his dad going to IU mean anything?
    It's always been an overblown point.

    If alma maters are so important, why doesn't he just go down the road to Greencastle, IN, and coach DePauw? If Stevens is going to jump ship, it'll not be because of something like that.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    It's always been an overblown point.

    If alma maters are so important, why doesn't he just go down the road to Greencastle, IN, and coach DePauw? If Stevens is going to jump ship, it'll not be because of something like that.
    It's just a factor. You are taking that one small detail and blowing it into something absurd with that DePauw comment. Am I sure Stevens would come to IU if the job were to open (which it won't)? Absolutely not, but if he was ever going to make the jump to a blue blood program, IU would be the one. He wouldn't have to uproot his family and move across the country, he's familiar and comfortable with the university and our recruiting base, he understands the expectations of the fans and what the basketball program means to so many in the state, etc. He grew up an Indiana fan, it's not exactly a stretch.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    It's just a factor. You are taking that one small detail and blowing it into something absurd with that DePauw comment. Am I sure Stevens would come to IU if the job were to open (which it won't)? Absolutely not, but if he was ever going to make the jump to a blue blood program, IU would be the one. He wouldn't have to uproot his family and move across the country, he's familiar and comfortable with the university and our recruiting base, he understands the expectations of the fans and what the basketball program means to so many in the state, etc. He grew up an Indiana fan, it's not exactly a stretch.
    I'm sure he wouldn't. You're taking one small detail and making it a life decision. His dad likes a team, so he's going to want to coach them?

    He's already shown he's not in it for the money or prestige. IU in a lot of ways is a lot like UCLA, it's not the job it used to be. There's a lot of prestige and tradition there, but there's also a ton of unreasonable expectations (especially if IU would fire Crean to make a run at Stevens). The last two coaches hired were Kelvin Sampson and Tom Crean (after he turned IU down the first time). It's not like great coaches are presumably knocking at the door here. Stevens doesn't have to settle for IU, when he can get Duke. A program that's head and shoulders above.
    Last edited by PR07; 03-30-2013 at 12:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    I'm sure he wouldn't. You're taking one small detail and making it a life decision. His dad likes a team, so he's going to want to coach them?

    He's already shown he's not in it for the money or prestige. IU in a lot of ways is a lot like UCLA, it's not the job it used to be. There's a lot of prestige and tradition there, but there's also a ton of unreasonable expectations (especially if IU would fire Crean to make a run at Stevens). The last two coaches hired were Kelvin Sampson and Tom Crean (after he turned IU down the first time). It's not like great coaches are presumably knocking at the door here. Stevens doesn't have to settle for IU, when he can get Duke. A program that's head and shoulders above.
    I haven't said one thing about his dad yet. I'm saying Stevens grew up an Indiana fan himself. Learn how to comprehend what you read, perhaps?

    I'm sure you don't understand growing up and rooting for a team all throughout your childhood, because let's face it, you are probably one of the Butler fans who jumped on board about 3 years ago. You really think following in Coach K's footsteps at Duke is going to be desirable for coaches? You pretend Stevens just wants the biggest and best college job there is (according to you, the Duke job). Yet at the same time you say Stevens has already shown he's not in it for the money or prestige. So, which is it?

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I haven't said one thing about his dad yet. I'm saying Stevens grew up an Indiana fan himself. Learn how to comprehend what you read, perhaps?

    I'm sure you don't understand growing up and rooting for a team all throughout your childhood, because let's face it, you are probably one of the Butler fans who jumped on board about 3 years ago. You really think following in Coach K's footsteps at Duke is going to be desirable for coaches? You pretend Stevens just wants the biggest and best college job there is (according to you, the Duke job). Yet at the same time you say Stevens has already shown he's not in it for the money or prestige. So, which is it?
    You realize when someone's getting frazzled when they make personal attacks. Please keep those to yourself, junior.

    I'm actually a Butler grad. Went there 5 years, got my Master of Professional Accounting, and now I'm a CPA and member of the Big 4. Thank you very much!

    Duke's a more successful environment. Let's face it. Stevens isn't going to want to replace a coach that got fired because that's a toxic environment (which in Crean's case, he would have to be). The point is, if he's ever going to make a jump from Butler, which by all indications at the moment, he's not that he can do better than IU. If it's not about the money or prestige, what is separating IU from Butler? Recruiting? We were already in the run for Cody Zeller along with IU and UNC, and we are flirting with the Lyles, Blueitts, of the world. That should only improve as Butler as a program improves. Nostalgia? Let's not forget IU passed on Stevens for Crean already, Butler gave him his chance. There's something to be said for that. There's also something to be said for building something great from the ground up, not chasing a legend and looking for ghosts in an attic.
    Last edited by PR07; 03-30-2013 at 12:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    You realize when someone's getting frazzled when they make personal attacks. Please keep those to yourself, junior.

    I'm actually a Butler grad. Went there 5 years, got my Master of Professional Accounting, and now I'm a CPA and member of the Big 4. Thank you very much!

    Duke's a more successful environment. Let's face it. Stevens isn't going to want to replace a coach that got fired because that's a toxic environment (which in Crean's case, he would have to be). The point is, if he's ever going to make a jump from Butler, which by all indications at the moment, he's not. He can do better than IU. If it's not about the money or prestige, what is separating IU from Butler? Recruiting? We were already in the run for Cody Zeller along with IU and UNC, and we are flirting with the Lyles, Blueitts, of the world. That should only improve as Butler as a program improves. Nostalgia? Let's not forget IU passed on Stevens for Crean already, Butler gave him his chance. There's something to be said for that.
    I'm irritated, yes. But then again, you turned around and did the same thing, "junior."

    Congrats on your Butler degree. I have one from Indiana. Glad we had this talk. Want to discuss financials via PMs or out here in the open? Up to you Big 4.

    Yeah, that's not what I'm saying. I have openly acknowledged several times that Crean isn't going anywhere. This is a hypothetical world we are living in. You are assuming that the environment would have to be toxic for Crean to get fired, which is true if it were to happen this year or next year. But IU athletics in general are far, far from toxic right now. Our administration and AD have the athletic programs humming along. What you aren't grasping here is that "better" is subjective. To someone from Kentucky who grew up rooting for Big Blue their entire lives, UK is their dream job. To someone who grew up in Indiana rooting for the Hoosiers, Indiana might be their dream job. To someone who grew up during the Lute Olsen glory years, Arizona might be the dream job. You see where this is going. To you, and most subjective observers, the Duke job probably is at or near the top. But everyone is different.

    As for your recruiting, congrats on being in the running for Zeller and being mentioned with Lyles, Blueitt, etc. This ain't horseshoes. You don't get anything for being in the final pairing. When Butler starts pulling in these elite guys, then you have some ground to stand on. But right now, you are winning because you have one of the two or three best coaches in the game.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'm irritated, yes. But then again, you turned around and did the same thing, "junior."

    Congrats on your Butler degree. I have one from Indiana. Glad we had this talk. Want to discuss financials via PMs or out here in the open? Up to you Big 4.

    Yeah, that's not what I'm saying. I have openly acknowledged several times that Crean isn't going anywhere. This is a hypothetical world we are living in. You are assuming that the environment would have to be toxic for Crean to get fired, which is true if it were to happen this year or next year. But IU athletics in general are far, far from toxic right now. Our administration and AD have the athletic programs humming along. What you aren't grasping here is that "better" is subjective. To someone from Kentucky who grew up rooting for Big Blue their entire lives, UK is their dream job. To someone who grew up in Indiana rooting for the Hoosiers, Indiana might be their dream job. To someone who grew up during the Lute Olsen glory years, Arizona might be the dream job. You see where this is going. To you, and most subjective observers, the Duke job probably is at or near the top. But everyone is different.

    As for your recruiting, congrats on being in the running for Zeller and being mentioned with Lyles, Blueitt, etc. This ain't horseshoes. You don't get anything for being in the final pairing. When Butler starts pulling in these elite guys, then you have some ground to stand on. But right now, you are winning because you have one of the two or three best coaches in the game.
    You can go ahead and discuss financials. I deal enough with those already . I can tell that makes you feel like you're a real big man. Whatever makes you happy!

    The thing is, we don't need these elite guys to be successful, part of the reason what makes Stevens so successful. He's a lot like Izzo in that he gets guys to play his system. If we ever get one, great, but we don't need those guys to be successful. Matt Howard wasn't an elite prospect, neither was Mack or Hayward, and both of those guys are playing ball in the NBA. The fact that it's picking up already is just nuts on our chocolate sundae. All it will ever take is just one guy to say yes. Stevens isn't the only reason for our success, guys like Thad Matta helped pave the road long ago, but he's a big part of it currently.

    And yes, it might be his dream job. It also might not be. I'm sure if IU called, Brad would listen just like he listened to Oregon and UCLA. However, I think it's far from a guarantee that he'd jump, especially when the best we can do is, he went to their basketball games growing up. IU is trying to get back to what it once was. Butler is trying to get to where it's never been. Which one is more exciting? As far as major programs go, I think if any basketball program has the most room for growth in the country, it's Butler's.
    Last edited by PR07; 03-30-2013 at 01:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    You can go ahead and discuss financials. I deal enough with those already . I can tell you feel that makes you feel like you're a real big man. Whatever makes you happy!

    The thing is, we don't need these elite guys to be successful, part of the reason what makes Stevens so successful. He's a lot like Izzo in that he gets guys to play his system. If we ever get one, great, but we don't need those guys to be successful. Matt Howard wasn't an elite prospect, neither was Mack or Hayward, and both of those guys are playing ball in the NBA. The fact that it's picking up already is just nuts on our chocolate sundae. All it will ever take is just one guy to say yes. Stevens isn't the only reason for our success, guys like Thad Matta helped pave the road long ago, but he's a big of it currently.

    And yes, it might be his dream job. It also might not be. I'm sure if IU called, Brad would listen just like he listened to Oregon and UCLA. However, I think it's far from a guarantee that he'd jump, especially when the best we can do is, he went to their basketball games growing up. IU is trying to get back to what it once was. Butler is trying to get to where it's never been. Which one is more exciting? As far as major programs go, I think if any basketball program has the most room for growth in the country, it's Butler's.
    That was sarcasm my friend. You are the one that started throwing out degrees and Big 4 accounting firms and what not.

    I agree with your entire second paragraph. Nothing to see here.

    I agree with your third paragraph too. I never said he would jump at the chance to coach IU. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've said I'm not even sure he would take the job. So what the **** are we arguing about now? Financials?

    I think we are done here. Arguing the same thing from different vantage points. I've never had a beef with you going back to the RealGM days, so I apologize for my insane bitterness leading to there being one now. Good talk, see you out there.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    That was sarcasm my friend. You are the one that started throwing out degrees and Big 4 accounting firms and what not.

    I agree with your entire second paragraph. Nothing to see here.

    I agree with your third paragraph too. I never said he would jump at the chance to coach IU. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've said I'm not even sure he would take the job. So what the **** are we arguing about now? Financials?

    I think we are done here. Arguing the same thing from different vantage points. I've never had a beef with you going back to the RealGM days, so I apologize for my insane bitterness leading to there being one now. Good talk, see you out there.
    No harm, no foul. I only threw those out because you labeled me a bandwagon fan like I just stumbled into Hinkle Fieldhouse one day. But yes, I do remember you as a high quality poster. Sorry, I can tell we are both passionate about our teams, and there's nothing wrong with that.
    Last edited by PR07; 03-30-2013 at 01:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    If Crean was to get a call to coach somewhere else and for whatever reason, he wanted to take it.... I could easily see Stevens listening very seriously to IU about the job opening. Crean isn't getting fired from IU anytime soon though, and possibly never. He's turned this program around. He does IMHO have flaws and those flaw might eventually be his downfall at IU but that is certainly debatable. And would it be IU would fire him or he'd decide to move on if the fanbase grew critical of him while he's winning 20+ games per season even if he's not having BTT success or NCAA banners and deep runs going for him? And if he does add those to his resume' he could probably run for governor of Indiana and win that too...
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Sigh. Not that IU would've ever wanted Keady, but Butler used to just be that little school in Indy with the cool arena.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    IU in a lot of ways is a lot like UCLA, it's not the job it used to be.
    In a lot of other ways, besides history, UCLA is one of the worst places in any major conference to coach basketball. No practice facility, subpar training facilities, run-down playing facilities, administration that has been de-emphasizing athletics, bankrupt state support, disinterested fan base. IU has none of that to deal with.
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by PR07 View Post
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    Stevens doesn't have to settle for IU, when he can get Duke. A program that's head and shoulders above.
    Nobody settles for IU. Duke has worse facilities and was absolutely nothing until Coach K arrived. IU basketball transcends any one coach. Duke wins more, but IU has a far more complete program. Stevens wouldn't have to change much of what he does if he were to coach at IU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    Nobody settles for IU. Duke has worse facilities and was absolutely nothing until Coach K arrived. IU basketball transcends any one coach. Duke wins more, but IU has a far more complete program. Stevens wouldn't have to change much of what he does if he were to coach at IU.
    they made four Final 4s and were runners up twice before K, they weren't nothing

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    I don't think Crean is the greatest X and O's coach but just the fact that he put the program back on the national map is good enough for me for the time being. I give him 5 years to win the national championship.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    I don't think Crean is the greatest X and O's coach but just the fact that he put the program back on the national map is good enough for me for the time being. I give him 5 years to win the national championship.
    or what? fire him? I mean I suppose I don't have a problem with a "get a ring or else" standard but the tourney's so damn flukey. I love and adore the excitement of it, but a one and done tournament is an AWFUL way to determine a national champ. I mean they're both very good teams, but does anyone really think either of Syracuse or especially Wichita State are two of the best four teams in the country?

    it's like when people cite "X made Y amount of Finals 4s," who cares? the guy won/lost a single game against a (maybe) good team. I just think tourney success is a terrible overall evaluation of coaches.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    It's been 10 years since Boeheim made the final 4 and he's a lock as a HOF coach. It isn't possible to just turn some magic crank and win titles.
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    IU will need tourney success over the long haul but that won't necessarily mean titles (although a BTT championship shouldn't be out of the question)... but it will mean either upsetting some teams as a lower seed or being a higher seed and being extremely competitive more times than not... with few if any early round exits.

    IOW they will need to live up to the worthiness of a higher seeding... and live up to their reputation of one of basketball's elite programs when they are a lower seed. A track record of not doing that will bring questions.

    But if it stars looking like the system isn't going to get IU a shot at a title because it will always come up short in the tourney then I figure the natives will get restless. And a shot at the title game doesn't mean necessarily making it to the title game, it just means IU won't be an easy out for anyone and along the way they have to get close to or make a Final 4.

    Playing for a spot in the Elite 8 and carrying the number 1 seed yet starting the game in an 18 point hole isn't going to cut it year after year to inspire confidence that the seeding was really deserved or legitimate and that the team were really contenders for a title.
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Apparently, Indiana is looking at a 2013 point guard. Which is interesting because we are already oversigned by 3. Looks like we will be doing some housecreaning this spring. Zeller, Oladipo go pro. Hulls, Watford, Elston graduated. Jurkin and player X get Creaned. My best guess is Maurice Creek.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Apparently, Indiana is looking at a 2013 point guard. Which is interesting because we are already oversigned by 3. Looks like we will be doing some housecreaning this spring. Zeller, Oladipo go pro. Hulls, Watford, Elston graduated. Jurkin and player X get Creaned. My best guess is Maurice Creek.
    By "creaned" you mean their scholarships will not be renewed? Sounds drastic.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by joew8302 View Post
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    By "creaned" you mean their scholarships will not be renewed? Sounds drastic.
    They will be conveniently ushered out of the program. On their own accord, of course.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    They will be conveniently ushered out of the program. On their own accord, of course.
    I only ask this because I saw Peter Jurkin play in high school and have moderately followed him for a few years, but why did he not get more time? I get Zeller was there, and he would obviously get the lions share of minutes at center, but were the other frontcourt guys that much better as to where he couldn't help at all?

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Sure, Brad and his Dad sharing IU games doesn't mean for sure Brad would go to IU if the job was there, but IU would have a lot easier job of moving Brad than anyone else, his family likes being in this state so expecting him to move all the way out to LA was always a silly thought.

    Anyway, it's an incredibly pointless discussion, as Tom isn't going anywhere for at least 4 years most likely, and by that time who knows what Brad's thinking could be.

    Let's see what Butler does in the Big East also, I love Brad's X's and O's but I know there are some BUtler fans who don't love the way they recruit, they slow played this point guard by the name of Burke and from what I hear he ended up being an OK player.

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