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Thread: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

  1. #2526

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    sheer awesomeness, video of the last 52 seconds linked with audio from Don Fischer and Royce Waltman

    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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  3. #2527
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    sheer awesomeness, video of the last 52 seconds linked with audio from Don Fischer and Royce Waltman

    That's the first time I have gotten to watch the last 52 seconds. I turned the game off after GRIII was fouled.

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  5. #2528

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    That's the first time I have gotten to watch the last 52 seconds. I turned the game off after GRIII was fouled.
    At that point I was frantically switching back and forth to Pacers-Heat which had just tipped off.

    On the FTs,
    Burke shoots 78%
    Hardaway 69%
    GR3 70%

    So the odds of GR3 making 1 of 2, Hardaway missing, and Burke missing are:

    [1-(0.70X0.70)] X 0.31 X 0.22
    = 3.5%

    not including the choke factor
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  6. #2529

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    You can tell Fischer is starting to get used to winning again. I kind of expected him to sound like he did after the UK win, but he almost sounded more relieved after this one.

  7. #2530

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    I have less of an issue with Crean getting into it with an opposing coach than I would if a player for a team of mine talked trash to an opposing coach, say, after hitting a 3-pointer.

    example:

    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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  9. #2531
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Sure the program was "wrecked"......for just three years. It's not like it took us a decade to get over the damage caused by Sampson's crew. That three years felt like a long time, but in reality it's just a blip on the radar. Sampson left in 2008, but by 2011 we were already adding a stud in Zeller, amongst a bunch of other stud players. I'd say that IU escaped relatively unscathed. It's not like we were banned from the tournament or anything.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Sure the program was "wrecked"......for just three years. It's not like it took us a decade to get over the damage caused by Sampson's crew. That three years felt like a long time, but in reality it's just a blip on the radar. Sampson left in 2008, but by 2011 we were already adding a stud in Zeller, amongst a bunch of other stud players. I'd say that IU escaped relatively unscathed. It's not like we were banned from the tournament or anything.
    You can't be even remotely serious...

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  12. #2533
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    You can't be even remotely serious...
    In the grand scheme of things, yes we escaped relatively unscathed. We made a bad hire, paid a price when his crooked bunch screwed us over, but a mere three years later we were adding a stud recruit and preparing for a sweet 16 run. Just four years later and we were heading into the season as the number 1 team. It's not like the brand of our program was mortally wounded or anything. It only took three years to recoup. Other programs have been through far far worse.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    In the grand scheme of things, yes we escaped relatively unscathed. We made a bad hire, paid a price when his crooked bunch screwed us over, but a mere three years later we were adding a stud recruit and preparing for a sweet 16 run. Just four years later and we were heading into the season as the number 1 team. It's not like the brand of our program was mortally wounded or anything. It only took three years to recoup. Other programs have been through far far worse.
    I'd love to hear some examples.

  14. #2535
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'd love to hear some examples.
    Michigan and Baylor come to mind just on the basketball side. And yes, having been inside 700 W Washington the very day that IU's punishment came down, I'd agree that the Hoosiers got off VERY easy.
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  16. #2536
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I'd love to hear some examples.

    How about UConn? They were banned from the postseason this year.

    Michigan was banned from the postseason in 2003 and had to surrender all of the Fab Five wins.

    Ohio State had to surrender its 1999 Final Four banner. So did Memphis and UMass.

    USC was banned from a postseason not too long ago.

    I'm sure I can find plenty of other examples of things worse than what we went through from 2008-2011. It was a rough few years, but we rebounded in a relatively short period of time. People act as if it took ten years to get past Sampson. We didn't have to forfeit any wins and weren't banned from the tournament. It's pretty tame compared to the punishments that other schools have received. Our punishment was three years of bad basketball. That's it. Crean was hired in April 2008, and the Watford shot was in December 2011. That's not a very long gap.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 03-11-2013 at 05:16 PM.

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  18. #2537
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    IU is #3 in both polls. We're better than Gonzaga and Duke, IMO.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

  19. #2538

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Maybe Jeff Myers didn't know what all was happening within the program when he was here but Crean must think he did. I really have no problem with Crean saying what he said to Myers. The part I don't like is him apologizing for it. I like the fact that he was blunt and told Myers straight to his face what he thinks. I think the world could use a little more of that but that's just my opinion.

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  21. #2539
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    How about UConn? They were banned from the postseason this year.

    Michigan was banned from the postseason in 2003 and had to surrender all of the Fab Five wins.

    Ohio State had to surrender its 1999 Final Four banner. So did Memphis and UMass.

    USC was banned from a postseason not too long ago.

    I'm sure I can find plenty of other examples of things worse than what we went through from 2008-2011. It was a rough few years, but we rebounded in a relatively short period of time. People act as if it took ten years to get past Sampson. We didn't have to forfeit any wins and weren't banned from the tournament. It's pretty tame compared to the punishments that other schools have received. Our punishment was three years of bad basketball. That's it. Crean was hired in April 2008, and the Watford shot was in December 2011. That's not a very long gap.
    One postseason ban. One banner getting taken down. Ask any fan of a team who has had a banner taken down--it doesn't mean much to them. They have the memories, it was real to them. The only thing that changes is the record book. As far as punishments from the NCAA are concerned, you are right, it wasn't that bad, but overall damage to the program? We had, what, one returning scholarship player? We won six games, then ten, then twelve. Those programs never experienced national titles and those highs and that kind of low associated with it. One year of postseason ban? **** I'd take UConn's 20-10 campaign this season with a postseason ban over any of those first three Crean years when it was just painful to watch the team.

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  23. #2540
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Oladipo-DPOY
    Burke-POY
    Ryan-COY
    Craft,Thomas,Oladipo, Burke, Zeller
    @qandrews9428

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    There is speculation that part of the Crean/Meyer flap resulted from the presence of James Blackmon Jr. at the game on the Michigan sidelines. JBjr is a 2014 IU commit.

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  26. #2542
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    How about UConn? They were banned from the postseason this year.

    Michigan was banned from the postseason in 2003 and had to surrender all of the Fab Five wins.

    Ohio State had to surrender its 1999 Final Four banner. So did Memphis and UMass.

    USC was banned from a postseason not too long ago.

    I'm sure I can find plenty of other examples of things worse than what we went through from 2008-2011. It was a rough few years, but we rebounded in a relatively short period of time. People act as if it took ten years to get past Sampson. We didn't have to forfeit any wins and weren't banned from the tournament. It's pretty tame compared to the punishments that other schools have received. Our punishment was three years of bad basketball. That's it. Crean was hired in April 2008, and the Watford shot was in December 2011. That's not a very long gap.
    Michigan and Baylor committed FAR more egregious violations than IU and didn't have near the tradition and recruiting base of IU to rebuild quickly.

    Michigan had a booster PAY players and Baylor's head coach covered up the MURDER of one of his players. Sampson made some extra phone calls (which no longer is a violation).

    Ohio State and USC didn't have their programs gutted by a coaching change. Matta came to O$U in 2004 and has won 20+ games every year. USC never had a losing record after they got hit by the NCAA.
    Last edited by hoosierguy; 03-11-2013 at 06:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierguy View Post
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    Michigan and Baylor committed FAR more egregious violations than IU and didn't have near the tradition and recruiting base of IU to rebuild quickly.

    Michigan had a booster PAY players and Baylor's head coach covered up the MURDER of one of his players. Sampson made some extra phone calls (which no longer is a violation).

    Right, I'm not comparing the nature of the violations. I'm just saying that fans of other programs have been through worse things than our 2008-2011 period. It was rough to go through at the time, but at the end of the day we recovered from the Sampson fiasco in a relatively short period of time.

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  29. #2544
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Michigan and Baylor come to mind just on the basketball side. And yes, having been inside 700 W Washington the very day that IU's punishment came down, I'd agree that the Hoosiers got off VERY easy.
    No, the violations weren't terrible. Extra phone calls were made (that no longer is a violation). Sampson's major problem was that his APR scores were so awful that IU was going to eventually get hit with sanctions like loss of scholarships, practice reductions, and postseason bans.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Right, I'm not comparing the nature of the violations. I'm just saying that fans of other programs have been through worse things than our 2008-2011 period. It was rough to go through at the time, but at the end of the day we recovered from the Sampson fiasco in a relatively short period of time.
    A blue blood program that won a combined 28 games in three years--find me where that has happened before. Traditional loser programs or mid-level programs have experienced periods like that stretch, sure. But when you see North Carolina, Kentucky, Duke, or Kansas go through something similar, then we can talk. Sampson and his staff left the program in shambles. It wasn't the NCAA violations so much as the type of kids they were recruiting and the culture they allowed to run rampant that ruined our program.

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  32. #2546
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Right, I'm not comparing the nature of the violations. I'm just saying that fans of other programs have been through worse things than our 2008-2011 period. It was rough to go through at the time, but at the end of the day we recovered from the Sampson fiasco in a relatively short period of time.
    My point is that IU's program suffered tremendously for such relatively minor violations. Sampson's shenanigans killed what was shaping up to be a good 2007-08 season and resulted in the complete gutting of the program's roster and loss of several high level recruits (Devin Ebanks and Terrell Holliday come to mind).

  33. #2547

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    I can not believe I just read that we escaped rather unscathed from the Sampson era. A remarkable recovery doesn't make the injury any less severe. Sampson and his crew gutted this program.

    And by only sheer luck are we back. If we hadn't gotten Zeller, we would be at best around .500 in the Big Ten. BTW remember people that getting Zeller got us Yogi. Losing one of our 5 stars would have meant losing them both. Where would this team be without those two guys?

    The destruction that Sampson brought to this program was immense. Crean had to try and get kids here with huge restrictions. He talked about it on Senior night, it took them quite a bit of time to go see Jordan Hulls because of the restrictions. So yes the NCAA penalties mattered. Not to mention the gutting of the team as it was.

    So we had no team, and no real means to recruit. Yeah, sorry other teams haven't had it this bad. Even Kentucky in the late 80s were able to keep a couple of solid players around. We had Taber

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I love that you post this stuff when hindsight is your friend. You should know by now I get heated during these games.

    Also, Crean had better shore up his maddening substitution patterns and shorten his "rotation" if we are going to win a national title.
    Dude, I totally understand how you post during games and I was right there with you haha.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    You guys are too focused on the NCAA sanctions and not focused enough on the culture of drugs, skipping class, etc. that was instilled by Sampson et. al. Focusing on the phone calls is pointless, to me Crean sounded like Meyer was responsible for something else. If the phone calls had been the only issue and Crean had walked into a roster full of saints it would have been different.

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  38. #2550

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    The gutting of the program didn't have a whole lot to do with the NCAA sanctions. If Sampson and the staff had done nothing but make extra phone calls, if they had supervised the kids here once they got in a little hot water, if they had made them be students, made them pass drug tests, in general make them be respect-worthy representatives of the university, then the program would not have been stripped all the way down to starting walk-ons in the aftermath of the sanctions.

    Some players would have left. As it was, all had to be Fabreezed away. There was an odor.

    oops- TJoe said the same thing.
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