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Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

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  • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

    Syracuse is a very, very good team, one that is probably under seeded because of Southerland's missing games.

    IU is also a very, very good team, one that is maybe a little over seeded.

    Tonight I felt like I was watching two #2 seeds go head to head and IU got out talented and also out coached. This was not just on Crean, just as he was not fully innocent.

    Some nights IU was the best team in the country, some nights they definitely were not, part of that was coaching, but part of it much as it may be harder to admit, was talent.


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    • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

      Originally posted by hoosierguy View Post
      A "steady diet of being upset"? What?

      IU lost to tue #1 overall seed last year in the tourney. That is not an upset. They lost to Syracuse this year, an upset if you went by seeding only.

      Your entire argument about Crean Bball is based on future hypotheticals.
      When I said 'upset' I was thinking about the B10 tournament too... and I suppose you can consider the Wisconsins of the world in there too. And Butler. But EVERYONE gets upset sometimes. It happens. But I'm predicting it'll happen a little more to Crean and IU because he will not be able to get them over the proverbial hump and past those battle tested teams with their better coaching and better preparation.

      It's one of those things I have little doubt about in my prediction. I'm just curious how long it will take for the Hoosier Nation as a whole to figure that out and if that will be good enough long term?
      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

      ------

      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

      -John Wooden

      Comment


      • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

        Bball you may very well be right, but I need to get fully away from what is still a pretty meteoric rise to really know.

        This team never really had the talent to be preseason number 1. Frankly a team going from losing in the sweet 16 to preseason number 1 is pretty unheard of.

        IU should be more reasonably ranked to start next season and that will allwo me IMO a better judge of what we really did or did not accomplish. These past two years have been such a whirlwind. The fact that we went from 11-21 or whatever to 29-7 and outright big ten champs in 2 seasons is still completely unbelievable IMO and it's impossible for me not to be affected by that right now. Let's regroup next March IMO and that will be a very good time to get a feel for Crean. For example does Crean get no credit for winning on the road at Mich and Mich St and Ohio St? Those are all pretty solid accomplishments. Sometimes it is best to look at the bigger picture and unfortunately we still just don't have a whole plate of info.

        My belief in Crean certainly isn't 100%, and I don't think he is the best coach in the country or anything like that, but he checks a lot of the needed boxes, and I'm not sure he's such a terrible in game coach that he automaticlaly prohibits you from advancing far in the tourney.

        Next year will be a telling year in a lot of ways. Both for in game adjustments, ability for the team to meet hopefully more reasonable expecations, and also in terms of how players develop (Yogi, Hollowell and Perea at the top of that list)

        I'm ready for 2013-2014 and that fact that it is so far away is what sucks the most about tonight.

        I'm not expecting a national title team in anyway next year, but if Cody is back, Yogi improves, Sheehey is around, and Vonleh can be legit, you could still have a really good team and a final four type matchup against UK could be lurking in the shadows, but again next year I am expecting a sweet 16 type team with the chance to advance further depending on tourney matchups and I think that in the end that was basically the talent of this year's team too.


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        • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

          I just think Crean is totally a system coach. He just lacks an additional gear to coach or teach what to do when the system isn't working. It's overdrive or nothing. There's no 4WD for when the going gets rocky. But maybe that system really is unbeatable with more depth, taller guards, and a more physical presence inside.

          Hulls IMHO was ultimately a liability. Seemed like a great kid but his defense wasn't what IU needed at that guard spot for the game Crean wants. And it just seemed like some teams really could shut him down from the 3pt line to the point he wasn't hardly even a threat to actually shoot. And IU had nothing designed to change that when it happened.

          The system is going to win its share of games so that explains the wins you noted this season. But the system will need more depth, and some players more appropriate for the system if that is mainly all the team is going to rely on to get past these roadblocks like tonight. I don't see Crean ever saying (or thinking) "They're going to want to grind it out so we'll show them what grinding it out looks like and run a half court offensive clinic on them.... Here's their weaknesses. Then we'll wear them down and run them out of the gym"

          I hate to use Bob Knight as an example but look at '87 and IU vs UNLV. Bob decided the best way to beat UNLV was to beat them at their own game and actually look to ring the scoreboard up. They played smart and poured on the scoring in that game and UNLV didn't know what hit them.
          Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

          ------

          "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

          -John Wooden

          Comment


          • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

            If you are Cody Zeller, don't you have to watch last night's tape and think "Ok, I've lost enough money already, I'm out of here."

            He looked like Te'o against Alabama. Every team in the league has 4 guys who are as big, strong, and tough as any of those dudes he got physically manhandled by last night. He needs to try to cash in, now.

            Comment


            • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

              Bball the size of the guards was a major weakness all season, unfortunately Cuse is one of the few teams that can pick on it. They were a terrible, terrible matchup for us.

              As far as your Knight vs. UNLV story, isn't this what Crean tried to do in both games vs. UK last season? And it worked once and almost worked a second time.

              Look Crean is not perfect, but the guy is not the only reason IU lost last night. I don't know if it hurts some of you to really examine on the talent on this team or what, but the fact is, IU needed Oladipo and Zeller to play like stars to win every single big game this year, if one of them had an off night in any way IU was really vulnerable. We aren't as deep as even a team like Syracuse.

              Hulls is a problem to cover up on D.

              Yogi for all of his cool momments, is still very much a freshman.

              Sheehey has a lot of flaws still.

              Watford was OK, but there are issues with his ability to create off the bounce. I mean look at what a guy like CJ fair was able to do compared to Watford.....And I love Christian as a player and recognize everything he's done for IUBB but still.

              The talent just wasn't really there. Cuse was every bit as talented as us, and arguably more talented.
              Last edited by Trader Joe; 03-29-2013, 09:22 AM.


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              • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

                Honestly, we could talk til we're blue in the face about what went wrong, but I do want to focus on a lot of the right this season.

                29 wins
                Outright Big Ten title (first in 20 years)
                Wins on the road over Ohio St, Mich St, Mich.
                #1 ranking for what, 10 weeks?
                #1 seed
                There is a top 5 recruiting class on the way, including a guy that has gotten compared to Kevin Durant.

                And finally, perhaps most importantly, no one in their right mind 4 years ago would have thought we'd even be in the situation we were in last night. So all things considered, I can't stay too mad. And I hope that Crean can learn from his mistakes this year in the same way some of the young players do. No one on this team had really worn a target like this for an entire season. Why do we fall?


                Comment


                • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

                  Originally posted by PR07 View Post
                  For those calling for the axe on Crean, who is IU reasonably going to get that's a clear upgrade?

                  IU still had a very strong year to be proud of. No, maybe they should've made more noise in the tournament, but it's March Madness for a reason.
                  Brad Stevens. Obviously, they're not going to fire Crean yet but I have hard time believing Brad would pass up a huge pay raise to go 60 some odd miles down the road to Bloomington.
                  "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

                  -Lance Stephenson

                  Comment


                  • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

                    Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
                    If you are Cody Zeller, don't you have to watch last night's tape and think "Ok, I've lost enough money already, I'm out of here."

                    He looked like Te'o against Alabama. Every team in the league has 4 guys who are as big, strong, and tough as any of those dudes he got physically manhandled by last night. He needs to try to cash in, now.
                    I don't think he lost any money last night. I think he and Teo were overhyped in draft status. I watch path to the draft on NFL network from time to time and most of their experts had him as a 2nd rd during the season and still have him as a 2nd rder. It was the media who hyped him as a top 10 pick. I think Cody is the same way the media ESPN and draft sites had him as the top guy. He was the star player for the preseason #1 and people knew who he was so they had him super high. While NBA scouts and what not have not viewed him that way. I think he ends up getting drafted where he should and where he has been on NBA peoples boards lottery to mid 1st.

                    This is JMO and maybe scouts did have him as a top 3 pick but I highly doubt that. If he was a top 3 pick in the draft I would be trading that pick in a hurry even if the best package I could get is a healthy Danny Granger level player I would do it. Zeller will be a decent pro in the high post but he is way to limited even in a weak top of the draft to be a top 3 pick.

                    I mean at the start of the season Marcus Smart was listed as a mid 1st rd to late 1st rd guy. After the 3rd game I watched him play, I moved him into a top 10 pick. Looking at where these guys are listed early in the season is a mistake.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

                      Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
                      I don't think he lost any money last night. I think he and Teo were overhyped in draft status. I watch path to the draft on NFL network from time to time and most of their experts had him as a 2nd rd during the season and still have him as a 2nd rder. It was the media who hyped him as a top 10 pick. I think Cody is the same way the media ESPN and draft sites had him as the top guy. He was the star player for the preseason #1 and people knew who he was so they had him super high. While NBA scouts and what not have not viewed him that way. I think he ends up getting drafted where he should and where he has been on NBA peoples boards lottery to mid 1st.

                      This is JMO and maybe scouts did have him as a top 3 pick but I highly doubt that. If he was a top 3 pick in the draft I would be trading that pick in a hurry even if the best package I could get is a healthy Danny Granger level player I would do it. Zeller will be a decent pro in the high post but he is way to limited even in a weak top of the draft to be a top 3 pick.

                      I mean at the start of the season Marcus Smart was listed as a mid 1st rd to late 1st rd guy. After the 3rd game I watched him play, I moved him into a top 10 pick. Looking at where these guys are listed early in the season is a mistake.
                      I meant he lost money already by staying for another season, this year. He would have been a higher pick last year, than he will be this year.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

                        Fred Glass probably extended Crean's contract to 2030 after the game last night.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

                          Originally posted by Darren35 View Post
                          Crean clearly is in over is head. I was really surprised he said (at half time) they "had figured out the zone". Sure you did TC.
                          And Cal will look like a clown if he doesn't win the title next year.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

                            Also, after all the reactions it's good to see IU fans haven't changed when we have a good team. Still national title or bust.


                            Comment


                            • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

                              Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                              Also, after all the reactions it's good to see IU fans haven't changed when we have a good team. Still national title or bust.
                              I don't think it's national title or bust. But I also don't think there is any way to say the preseason (and majority of the regular season) favorite bowing out with an abysmal Sweet Sixteen performance doesn't make for a disappointing season.
                              "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

                              -Lance Stephenson

                              Comment


                              • Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2012-2013

                                Originally posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
                                I don't think it's national title or bust. But I also don't think there is any way to say the preseason (and majority of the regular season) favorite bowing out with an abysmal Sweet Sixteen performance doesn't make for a disappointing season.
                                Twitter is basically national title or bust.


                                I just think no one is wanting to acknowledge that we were overrated at the start of the year.

                                The "it's entirely Crean's fault" angle is ignoring a lot of other things that went horribly awry last night and over the past 6 or 7 weeks. Pretty sure Crean didn't magically turn Hulls into a 24% 3 point shooter. Pretty sure he didn't cause Yogi to pee his pants like a true freshman point guard last night.

                                All I could keep thinking about as Yogi continually screwed things up is the "I chose America" Pepsi commercial where they are filling out their bracket and talking about the freshman point guard that will cost his team....Our starting backcourt got outscored 38-0 last night, frankly it might be a minor coaching miracle we only lost by 11.


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