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Thread: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

  1. #201
    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Olblu is really starting to go senile... There isn't liking Danny, which is understandable, and then there is being so dense that you're disconnected from reality in regards to him.

    Can't get a first rounder? Negative trade value? I have to assume it is blatant trolling at this point, or such a profound ignorance that it is unbelievable.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by J7F View Post
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    Speaking of the grass is greener...

    JJ is marginally better at best... Same goes for Josh Smith and maybe Monta at his best...
    So according to you JJ, Monta and Josh Smith(a triple double machine) are marginally better? this is not a case of "the grass is greener" Danny is not even in the same level as those guys, stop it.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So according to you JJ, Monta and Josh Smith(a triple double machine) are marginally better? this is not a case of "the grass is greener" Danny is not even in the same level as those guys, stop it.
    You're right in saying that Smith is a better player. Danny is a slightly better player then JJ or Monta. I sure wouldn't want him traded for either JJ or Monta. I could see someone disagreeing with that, but to say he isn't even on the same level goes beyond over stating your point. Why don't you just say Danny couldn't even make the roster on any other NBA team. I just can't relate to the lack of respect I see Danny getting on here.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    You're right in saying that Smith is a better player. Danny is a slightly better player then JJ or Monta. I sure wouldn't want him traded for either JJ or Monta. I could see someone disagreeing with that, but to say he isn't even on the same level goes beyond over stating your point. Why don't you just say Danny couldn't even make the roster on any other NBA team. I just can't relate to the lack of respect I see Danny getting on here.
    It looks to me like you keep thinking about the "all star Danny", that guy has been gone for few years now, he was on the bottom in efficiently last year, he was lucky he had a good last month or we would have been last, why people don't want to see that? the guy is getting worse every year and that is expected from any player but acting like the guy has not lost an step is letting those blue and gold glasses get on the way.

    By the way I expect him to decline this year and I'm going to still see people telling me how great he is and that his numbers are down because "he is taking one for the team but if he was with the Bobcats he could average 30ppg".

    And regarding your comment on Danny been better than Monta and JJ lol, Danny wishes he was as good as those guys.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    So according to you JJ, Monta and Josh Smith(a triple double machine) are marginally better? this is not a case of "the grass is greener" Danny is not even in the same level as those guys, stop it.
    You say JJ is a better ball handler than DG, but DG is a better ball handler than Josh Smith. You say Josh Smith is a better defender than DG, but DG is a better defender than Monta. You say Monta is a better scorer than DG, but DG has always scored better than JJ (with the exception of last year where JJ scored .3 ppg more)

    No matter WHO you're comparing DG to, you look at the other players strengths, but not their weaknesses while only focusing on DG's weaknesses. THAT'S the thing that kills me. If you think they're better, that's fine. Different people look for different things in a player. But to say they aren't on the same level, is absolutely ridiculous. We're not talking about superstars here, these are all 2nd-3rd tier players that are the best players on good teams and the 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship level team.


    P.S you're triple double "machine" has 2 in his entire 8 year career. Not exactly racking them up is he

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by daschysta View Post
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    Olblu is really starting to go senile
    :
    :
    such a profound ignorance that it is unbelievable.
    OK, guys, this is exactly what you complain about Ol' Blu about. I would normally delete it as admin or PM, but it's time people realize that origination or retaliation doesn't matter, we need to be treating each other with some respect.

    OK?
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    It looks to me like you keep thinking about the "all star Danny", that guy has been gone for few years now, he was on the bottom in efficiently last year, he was lucky he had a good last month or we would have been last, why people don't want to see that? the guy is getting worse every year and that is expected from any player but acting like the guy has not lost an step is letting those blue and gold glasses get on the way.

    By the way I expect him to decline this year and I'm going to still see people telling me how great he is and that his numbers are down because "he is taking one for the team but if he was with the Bobcats he could average 30ppg".

    And regarding your comment on Danny been better than Monta and JJ lol, Danny wishes he was as good as those guys.
    Just the "LOL" part of your comment alone shows a lack of respect for Danny as a player and a Pacer.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    You say JJ is a better ball handler than DG, but DG is a better ball handler than Josh Smith. You say Josh Smith is a better defender than DG, but DG is a better defender than Monta. You say Monta is a better scorer than DG, but DG has always scored better than JJ (with the exception of last year where JJ scored .3 ppg more)

    No matter WHO you're comparing DG to, you look at the other players strengths, but not their weaknesses while only focusing on DG's weaknesses. THAT'S the thing that kills me. If you think they're better, that's fine. Different people look for different things in a player. But to say they aren't on the same level, is absolutely ridiculous. We're not talking about superstars here, these are all 2nd-3rd tier players that are the best players on good teams and the 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship level team.


    P.S you're triple double "machine" has 2 in his entire 8 year career. Not exactly racking them up is he
    When I compare players I compare the whole package and what they bring to the table, the "efficiency" and the "whole package" from each one of those 3 players mentioned is better than Danny Granger, only people in PD say that someway somehow Danny is equal to JJ that's it's just homerism, everybody in the NBA knows JJ is a way better player than Danny and is not even close.

    The same goes to Josh Smith 18.8ppg 9.6rpg 3.9apg 1.7bpg and great defense blows out of the water Danny's numbers, it's a joke that people even consider them on the same planet, is not even close, I think you guys are trolling on this one.

    Monta is the only comparison that is kind of close but as I have explained for a long time, Monta brings more to the table than Danny, not only that but he makes less money than Danny giving the Pacers flexibility to use that money for something else.

    Here are the NBA players efficiency numbers by the way:

    Josh Smith ranks 12 overall, Monta Ellis ranks 49, Joe Johnson 55 and Danny Granger 63, and Danny would have been worse if it was not for that last month miracle run.

    http://www.nba.com/statistics/player...ager.offset=50
    Last edited by vnzla81; 08-28-2012 at 10:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Just the "LOL" part of your comment alone shows a lack of respect for Danny as a player and a Pacer.
    "Lack of respect"? who are we talking about? the Pope? the bible? stop it!!

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    When I compare players I compare the whole package and what they bring to the table, the "efficiency" and the "whole package" from each one of those 3 players mentioned is better than Danny Granger, only people in PD say that someway somehow Danny is equal to JJ that's it's just homerism, everybody in the NBA knows JJ is a way better player than Danny and is not even close.

    The same goes to Josh Smith 18.8ppg 9.6rpg 3.9apg 1.7bpg and great defense blows out of the water Danny's numbers, it's a joke that people even consider them on the same planet, is not even close, I think you guys are trolling on this one.

    Monta is the only comparison that is kind of close but as I have explained for a long time, Monta brings more to the table than Danny, not only that but he makes less money than Danny giving the Pacers flexibility to use that money for something else.

    Here are the NBA players efficiency numbers by the way:

    Josh Smith ranks 12 overall, Monta Ellis ranks 49, Joe Johnson 55 and Danny Granger 63, and Danny would have been worse if it was not for that last month miracle run.

    http://www.nba.com/statistics/player...ager.offset=50
    In what way is it homerism though? What has JJ ever done in his career that Danny hasn't? Danny has averaged more points for most of their seasons. Yes you use efficiency as a way to grade a player, but that's far from the only way to grade a player. Maybe JJ can be a little more efficient because he's playing with Josh Smith, who according to you, is one of the best players in the league. If JJ is constantly playing 2nd string to Josh Smith, no wonder he's able to be so efficient. DG has been the best player on the Pacers for a long long time. Most players that aren't superstar level players aren't going to be extremely efficient while being the number one option on a team with lesser players.

    Josh Smith is very good, and he is undeniably better than Danny. BUT, he's not Lebron, Kobe, nor any other superstar caliber player. He, for all of his talent, has only been to the 2nd round of the playoffs, just like Danny. So the gap isn't NEARLY as large as you like to make it seem.

    If you want to compare players and everything they bring to the table, then there is just no way you can say JJ is light years ahead of Danny.

    In games head 2 head, their numbers are virtually the same (outside of wins because the Hawks owned the pacers a lot of times)
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=johnsjo02

    In their careers, Danny has put up better numbers, while Joe has played on better teams.

    Danny: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...per_game::none

    Joe: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsjo02.html#per_game::none

    Also if you want to use efficiency rating: Roy Hibbert, is better than all of these guys cept Josh Smith . So I don't think the efficiency rating is the BEST judge of talent.
    Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 08-28-2012 at 10:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    So we can lose those guys for nothing instead?

    Awesome plan.
    Plus his logic would work just as well with ANY player. He set the bar at "better than NOTHING".

    Well sure, if the Hawks look at it as being either Josh leaves for nothing or Josh for Paul George, then of course they do that deal. And by some miracle no other NBA team gives them a call and says "well if your standard is 'nothing', we can beat that too".

    And I love the "well they would resign in Indy because you know, the Pacers aren't in rebuild mode" on a website normally filled with "no stars want to sign here" comments. I mean I don't buy into that view, but I do think the Pacers would be at risk to trade a developing starter for a guy who could easily sign with another team in the offseason.

    You can't brush that stuff off with "oh, the Pacers would work it out and get them signed" as if it's not a massive factor in why the other team is sending high value proven talent for Paul and his potential.


    The Pacers aren't really sitting in a position of redundancy at this point so they are going to take a loss in one area regardless of the deal. At best you decide that there is less value in the SG defensive length of Paul than in the playmaking of a smaller SG, and you move Danny or Paul to gamble on that theory. And that's pretty freaking risky to me.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    only people in PD say that someway somehow Danny is equal to JJ that's it's just homerism, everybody in the NBA knows JJ is a way better player than Danny and is not even close.
    :
    :
    :
    Joe Johnson 55 and Danny Granger 63, and Danny would have been worse if it was not for that last month miracle run.
    So, what point in the efficiency rankings is the dropoff from "comparable" to "ridiculous to contemplate"? 55-56? 55-57? 55-58? 55-59? 55-60? 55-61? 55-62? Or only 55-63? Seems to me that a difference of 8 positions - a difference of .8 in this efficiency number and less than the difference between JJ and Monta - is well within the "comparable" range, not some sort of "no-brainer homers only" comparison. By your comparison, Monta is so far above JJ as to be "ridiculous to contemplate".

    You claim that DG's stats are skewed by some sort of "miracle" last month, but it could reasonably also be inferred that the extended start-of-the-season slump skewed the numbers DOWN.

    As others have said, you're entitled to your (well-known) opinion, but to constantly imply that anyone who doesn't share that opinion is ignoring facts or is blind to flaws is not reasonable.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    I have been on the record saying that Roy is the Pacers best player, efficiency shows that he is "the best player" on the team and yes he is more efficient than Monta or JJ, he is also waaaay more efficient than Granger.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    One thing about most of the commonly available "advanced" metrics - they are just combos of the same old basic stats where someone is just providing a weighting to some aspect that's viewed as important. So efficiency, win shares, usage, etc carry a false sense of insight, when for the most part they tell no more of the story than FGA, eFG (or TS), AST, REB, TO, STL and BLK do.

    I don't say this to dismiss stats or to take a stand in a Player A vs Player B debate, just noting the somewhat redundant nature of the advanced stats at BBall-Ref (and elsewhere).


    I do prefer stats rated per minute for totals, either p36 or the % values BBRef has available, but only to normalize for playing time.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Plus his logic would work just as well with ANY player. He set the bar at "better than NOTHING".

    Well sure, if the Hawks look at it as being either Josh leaves for nothing or Josh for Paul George, then of course they do that deal. And by some miracle no other NBA team gives them a call and says "well if your standard is 'nothing', we can beat that too".

    And I love the "well they would resign in Indy because you know, the Pacers aren't in rebuild mode" on a website normally filled with "no stars want to sign here" comments. I mean I don't buy into that view, but I do think the Pacers would be at risk to trade a developing starter for a guy who could easily sign with another team in the offseason.

    You can't brush that stuff off with "oh, the Pacers would work it out and get them signed" as if it's not a massive factor in why the other team is sending high value proven talent for Paul and his potential.


    The Pacers aren't really sitting in a position of redundancy at this point so they are going to take a loss in one area regardless of the deal. At best you decide that there is less value in the SG defensive length of Paul than in the playmaking of a smaller SG, and you move Danny or Paul to gamble on that theory. And that's pretty freaking risky to me.
    Yep the lest seat and do nothing approach is better.....

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I have been on the record saying that Roy is the Pacers best player, efficiency shows that he is "the best player" on the team and yes he is more efficient than Monta or JJ, he is also waaaay more efficient than Granger.
    So I guess here is the main question - do you truly believe that efficiency is the only measure of a player and that any other stat or observation can't compare at all?

    For example, if Roy can't get the ball his efficiency is useless to the Pacers. If (for the sake of argument) the reason he can't get the ball is a positioning or rebounding problem, that isn't the fault of the rest of the team. Efficiency isn't going to reflect that at all.

    If Danny has to take bad shots because the coach expects it (the knock on JOB all those years), is that a Danny efficiency problem or a coaching problem? You yourself have claimed VERY strongly the latter - does that not get taken into account, or is the proof of the pudding a single shortened season with no real training camp or organized off-season?

    Again, your conclusion is yours to make, but that doesn't mean people reaching a different conclusion using different criteria are being ridiculous or blind.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I have been on the record saying that Roy is the Pacers best player, efficiency shows that he is "the best player" on the team and yes he is more efficient than Monta or JJ, he is also waawaay more efficient than Granger.

    Only Vnlza thinks that 53.9ts% (Roy) is waaaay more efficient than 54.2ts% (Danny). Only Vnzla thinks that 49.7efg% (Roy) is waaaay more efficient than 48.1efg% (Danny)


    EDIT: And it should be pointed out that Danny's numbers are career lows while Roy's numbers are career highs.
    Last edited by Since86; 08-28-2012 at 11:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Again, your conclusion is yours to make, but that doesn't mean people reaching a different conclusion using different criteria are being ridiculous or blind.

    He's not even using his own criteria.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    So, what point in the efficiency rankings is the dropoff from "comparable" to "ridiculous to contemplate"? 55-56? 55-57? 55-58? 55-59? 55-60? 55-61? 55-62? Or only 55-63? Seems to me that a difference of 8 positions - a difference of .8 in this efficiency number and less than the difference between JJ and Monta - is well within the "comparable" range, not some sort of "no-brainer homers only" comparison. By your comparison, Monta is so far above JJ as to be "ridiculous to contemplate".

    You claim that DG's stats are skewed by some sort of "miracle" last month, but it could reasonably also be inferred that the extended start-of-the-season slump skewed the numbers DOWN.

    As others have said, you're entitled to your (well-known) opinion, but to constantly imply that anyone who doesn't share that opinion is ignoring facts or is blind to flaws is not reasonable.
    I might imply that some people are blinded by the blue and gold glasses but at least I'm not calling people haters or trolls and you know I don't mean you.

    By the way I used efficiently as a tool to show what I'm talking about, don't think I'm using it as "the tool".

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Only Vnlza thinks that 53.9ts% (Roy) is waaaay more efficient than 54.2ts% (Danny). Only Vnzla thinks that 49.7efg% (Roy) is waaaay more efficient than 48.1efg% (Danny)
    That's not what I said but ok laugh all you want I guess......

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    That's not what I said but ok laugh all you want I guess......
    Then what efficiency ratings are you talking about? Instead of just throwing a claim out against the wall to see if it sticks, actually back up your claim with something.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Then what efficiency ratings are you talking about? Instead of just throwing a claim out against the wall to see if it sticks, actually back up your claim with something.
    Why should I even bother to argue with you if I know you are not looking to have a conversation? sorry but is not going to happen

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by daschysta View Post
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    Olblu is really starting to go senile... There isn't liking Danny, which is understandable, and then there is being so dense that you're disconnected from reality in regards to him.

    Can't get a first rounder? Negative trade value? I have to assume it is blatant trolling at this point, or such a profound ignorance that it is unbelievable.
    He's giving his opinion. No better or worse than yours or mine. It isn't trolling until he attacks someone else. Ignore him if you don't like what he says and he needs to do the same. All of this Jr. High girl sniping is cluttering up the threads.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Why should I even bother to argue with you if I know you are not looking to have a conversation? sorry but is not going to happen
    I'm not looking for a conversation or argument, I'm looking for you to actually back up your claims instead of hinging your arguments around calling people homers for disagreeing with you.

    You've spent the last 5 pages arguing about this, and when I ask you to provide sources suddenly you've hit your wall.

    No need to continue the argument. Your unwillingness to even attempt to provide backup for your claims says enough.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'm not looking for a conversation or argument, I'm looking for you to actually back up your claims instead of hinging your arguments around calling people homers for disagreeing with you.

    You've spent the last 5 pages arguing about this, and when I ask you to provide sources suddenly you've hit your wall.

    No need to continue the argument. Your unwillingness to even attempt to provide backup for your claims says enough.
    He posted a link to the site with the efficiency numbers he is using:

    http://www.nba.com/statistics/player...ager.offset=50
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