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Thread: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

  1. #176
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Just to add on:

    The reason why I don't take the latest season as who Joe is as a player is out of his 13 seasons in the NBA, he's had 3 random seasons where he shot over .55 TS% (which is average really). Danny has shot over .55TS% 5 out of his 7 seasons in the NBA. I fully expect Danny to shoot around .55 TS% which is ok, (though he should be much better than that as good a shooter as he is) while Joe will regress to the mean.

    There is no doubt someone who has shot .564 for his career is a more efficient scorer than someone who has shot a below average .529 for his career.
    Also, JJ was the 2nd nest player on the Hawks behind J Smith, and arguably the 3rd best behind a healthy Horford, so with those players around him you'd think it'd be easier to score efficiently due to the defense having to respect the other two.

    It's no doubt JJ had a better season than Danny but without Horford on his team he still only averaged .3 ppg more than DG last yr.

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  3. #177

    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Just to add on:


    There is no doubt someone who has shot .564 for his career is a more efficient scorer than someone who has shot a below average .529 for his career.
    I see you prefer TS% over eFG%. I'd rather look at eFG%, though... Danny .503 Joe .494. Better, yeah, but not by much. Not nearly enough to back up your view that Danny's been the superior offensive player throughout his career considering all of his limitations.

  4. #178
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    I see you prefer TS% over eFG%. I'd rather look at eFG%, though... Danny .503 Joe .494. Better, yeah, but not by much. Not nearly enough to back up your view that Danny's been the superior offensive player throughout his career considering all of his limitations.
    I generally prefer TS% too. Means that Danny is getting to the line more, which is a good thing.

    To me the similarities between Danny and JJ trump the small percentage differences in their stats. True, JJ is better in assists, but Danny trumps him in rebounds, FTAs, and blocks. Arguably JJ would be a better fit with the Pacers, since we lack playmaking, but they seem to be similar levels of talent. And I think that's more of a knock on JJ than a compliment to Danny.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Try taking Roy off this team and see what it does to our defense. I hope you all know it would be a layup and-one drill if it weren't for him. Defense is half of this game guys.

    We have guys like West, Hibbert, George and Hill to shoot. None are good as Danny, but without Hibbert on defense we are really, really exposed. Tyler and DWest are not stopping anybody.
    Great post and we can add the Pacers as one of the teams in the East where Granger is not the best player. People tend to only look at scoring average and not defense (if they did just that, Granger would be eliminated) and rebounding. This team would come closer to winning without DG than Hibbert.....

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    How is facing Pierce, Pietrus and the Boston D a more favorable 1st round matchup then facing a Dwightless Orlando D?

    Looking at the game logs it looks like Danny played well in 2 of the 5 games. Danny's poor play in game 1 was arguably the main reason we lost that game. If Danny played anywhere close to how he played in the first round of the Bulls series in 2011 we'd have swept them with ease.

    Then he decides to not even show up for a very winnable game 1 in Miami...
    Pierce is not a very good defender anymore. His laterally quickness is all about gone. And Pietrus barely played in that series(16 mpg) and he is an overrated defender.

    If you wanna say Danny didn't show up then you HAVE to say the same about JJ

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    [QUOTE=CJ Jones;1496259]

    Okay i'll give you that, but you can't just dismiss the fact that Joe's twice the playmaker and ten times the ball handler.
    Yet with those skills he can't score better or more efficiently?

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Insults are not wanted nor are they welcome here on the Pacers Digest
    But it is perfectly OK for people to call me a troll, dense or hard headed. What I said here was not an insult and it was very mild compared to the names I get called every day. If you don't apply this standard to everyone, you are merely being a tool for the masses who don't like it when people disagree with them. So lets see you do this same thing to everyone who posts here or, you can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.....

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    This has come up each of the last 3 seasons.

    It would not surprise me to see him traded and it would not surprise me to see him not traded. There are sensible arguments both ways. At this point I am going to assume that the team is what we see right now. A couple of additions will be made eventually. But the core of the team is what we have on hand at the present. The real challenge to me is not who are they going to add to the team in the future but how much improvement are they going to see from what they have now.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    But it is perfectly OK for people to call me a troll, dense or hard headed. What I said here was not an insult and it was very mild compared to the names I get called every day. If you don't apply this standard to everyone, you are merely being a tool for the masses who don't like it when people disagree with them. So lets see you do this same thing to everyone who posts here or, you can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.....
    Yeh, Blu takes a lot of **** for being a troll (which he tends to be), but don't unnecessarily censor him. I've said a lot of **** and gotten away with it for the most part, being majorly censored only 2-4 times.

    Also, you're next post will put you at 1600. Just letting you know.

    I have a longer on-topic response, but I'll post that after this while I develop the internal organs of the post.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Just read the first post again. Someone's blog? And it only states that people close to the pacer FO are saying this? Yeah, not too credible.

    And this is no slight to Heisneburg for posting it. He seems to have doubts also.

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  15. #186

    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    I generally prefer TS% too. Means that Danny is getting to the line more, which is a good thing.
    It depends on the player. I have a hard time giving high usage players with single digit assist ratios much credit for their freet throw attempts (Gay, Granger). If they're not looking for their teammates it just looks like a selfish stat to me.

    Yet with those skills he can't score better or more efficiently?
    I didn't make my point clear apparently. Mattie believes Danny's a better offensive player because he scores slightly more efficient. I'm saying it's not all about scoring. Joe's ability to handle the ball and make plays makes his teammates better. It's not fair to dismiss Joes strengths and Danny's weakness when comparing the two.
    Last edited by CJ Jones; 08-26-2012 at 06:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Who in the NBA has a need for a veteran SF who can contribute 18-24 points per game (besides, I guess, any team)? Or rather, who would be willing to take Granger? Would we have to package him with Hansbrough?

    Hornets: Their small forward lineup looks pretty WAY young. Al-Farouq Aminu, Darius Miller, Lance Thomas (?), and Anthony Davis, if he dropped to the 3. Yes, of course, Eric Gordon could be sent in return, but I don't really see it happening. However, a lineup of Vasquez/Rivers/Granger/Davis/Lopez could work out, just like a lineup of Hill/Gordon/George/West/Hibbert doesn't look too bad either. Hornets would undoubtedly have interest, though, due to their lack of depth at SF.

    Bobcats: Kidd-Gilchrist is expected to be Charlotte's savior at small forward. But with the likes of Matt Carroll, Gerald Henderson, Jamario Moon, and Reggie Williams behind/in front of him, they could use a veteran small forward to help control the rookies a little bit. I don't really think there's anyone on the Bobcats who I could realistically see working out for the Pacers. But as far as teams who have a need at small forward, the Bobcats are up there.

    Cavaliers: Omri Casspi, Alonzo Gee, Luke Walton, Kelenna Azubuike, and CJ Miles can all play the 3 for Cleveland. But none of those names really stand out as a "starting forward". This is another case where the Cavs may not have anyone worth picking up in exchange for our long-term leader. But they're going to continue to not go any farther if their future rests on the shoulders of Kyrie Irving, Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson, Anderson Varejao, Tyler Zeller, and a collection of lower-tier players. Luke Walton, Varejao, and Azubuike are the oldest players on the team at 32, 29, and 28, respectively. The average age of the rest of the team is mid-20's, but that does not directly translate into "experience".

    I think you get where I'm going here. There are many teams leftover who could use a veteran small forward; instead of the empty hole or vast youth they have there instead. Remember that, just because one team (like the Bobcats) has nothing we would want in return, doesn't mean we can't get something else from a third team. The 76ers got Bynum from LA by giving Iguodala to Denver. Not all is lost, nor hopeless, nor impossible. If someone's going to get a decent return for Granger, I think Kevin Pritchard can do so.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    I didn't make my point clear apparently. Mattie believes Danny's a better offensive player because he scores slightly more efficient. I'm saying it's not all about scoring. Joe's ability to handle the ball and make plays makes his teammates better. It's not fair to dismiss Joes strengths and Danny's weakness when comparing the two.
    I think the fact that JJ is a guard while Danny is a SF who can play stretch 4 should be considered too. Outside of Lebron and MAYBE KD, most natural forwards aren't very strong ball handlers or playmakers.

    Most guards can handle and pass, while most forwards can post and rebound. Danny is a very very average rebounder but he's above average in the post, and is better on the inside; which is why he gets to the line more.. Their strengths and weaknesses are different but it also has to do with what positions they mostly play.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    But it is perfectly OK for people to call me a troll, dense or hard headed. What I said here was not an insult and it was very mild compared to the names I get called every day. If you don't apply this standard to everyone, you are merely being a tool for the masses who don't like it when people disagree with them. So lets see you do this same thing to everyone who posts here or, you can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.....
    This is the first post that I have ever directed at you. Whatever it was you had to say towards me, I didn't see it, nor do I care. Your response was obviously ill mannered, and unwarranted considering that once again..I have not directed one single post at you. In the future, please refrain from making false accusations as I have never called you a troll, or even replied to one of your posts.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I think the fact that JJ is a guard while Danny is a SF who can play stretch 4 should be considered too. Outside of Lebron and MAYBE KD, most natural forwards aren't very strong ball handlers or playmakers.

    Most guards can handle and pass, while most forwards can post and rebound. Danny is a very very average rebounder but he's above average in the post, and is better on the inside; which is why he gets to the line more.. Their strengths and weaknesses are different but it also has to do with what positions they mostly play.
    IMO Danny is not good at getting to the line at all. He really needs to work on that I think.
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by HC View Post
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    IMO Danny is not good at getting to the line at all. He really needs to work on that I think.
    He averaged 5 FTA a game last yr, which was the lowest number in the last 4 years. Before last season he had averaged 6, 7,7 and 5. Not elite numbers but much better than JJ, which is who I was comparing him to when I made the statement.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by HC View Post
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    IMO Danny is not good at getting to the line at all. He really needs to work on that I think.
    Yes, I agree, but I think it's a hopeless cause to expect him to get much better in that area. The Danny you see today is a player who needs to catch and shoot and only occasionally drive. Danny is a great shooter. He's just a LOT better at shooting than converting after fouls because he cannot handle the ball...and that's not going to improve any more than it has already. ...and it has...but he has hit the ceiling.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    He averaged 5 FTA a game last yr, which was the lowest number in the last 4 years. Before last season he had averaged 6, 7,7 and 5. Not elite numbers but much better than JJ, which is who I was comparing him to when I made the statement.
    He might not look like a guy who gets to the line a lot, but the numbers say that he does it fairly well. To put Granger's numbers in perspective, last year's 4.7 FTA/g was tied with the likes of Monta Ellis and Tony Parker. His two 6.9 FTA/g seasons were very nice, finishing 13th and 14th in the league in those years. Not elite as Ace says but probably as close as you can get without being an athletic freak. Particularly impressive since he's more of a shooter than a slasher. Again, to put the numbers in perspective, Monta Ellis' best career FTA/g is 6.1, Joe Johnson's is 5.5, Rudy Gay's is 5.0. There's nothing wrong with Danny's ability to draw fouls, we just need him to get back his old form.
    Last edited by wintermute; 08-26-2012 at 10:32 PM.

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  25. #194

    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I think the fact that JJ is a guard while Danny is a SF who can play stretch 4 should be considered too. Outside of Lebron and MAYBE KD, most natural forwards aren't very strong ball handlers or playmakers.
    I don't think this should this be considered when comparing their overall offensive game. Does it really matter what wing position they play offensively? The skills they bring to the table is all that matters to me.

    Most guards can handle and pass, while most forwards can post and rebound. Danny is a very very average rebounder but he's above average in the post, and is better on the inside; which is why he gets to the line more.. Their strengths and weaknesses are different but it also has to do with what positions they mostly play.
    I'd almost be willing to bet Joe's the better post player. Danny last year was 140th out of 150 qualified players in 2 pt shooting percentage. At this point Danny's a 2 dimensional offensive player... 3 pt shooter and foul drawer (if you consider that a dimension). Joe's a much more versatile player. He can do more things offensively, it's as simple as that, therefore he's the better all around offensive player IMO. I don't buy Danny's slightly more efficient scoring trumps Joe's superiority in the other tangible and intangible offensive categories.

    We're getting way off topic from my original post, though. The moral of the story is it's lame for me to say my stats are better than yours because when it comes to stats there are no absolutes (especially advanced stats). They can be read differently by different people. Some put more stock in certain stats than others, and that's perfectly fine. We're all entitled to our opinions.
    Last edited by CJ Jones; 08-27-2012 at 01:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ Jones View Post
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    I don't think this should this be considered when comparing their overall offensive game. Does it really matter what wing position they play offensively? The skills they bring to the table is all that matters to me.



    I'd almost be willing to bet Joe's the better post player. Danny last year was 140th out of 150 qualified players in 2 pt shooting percentage. At this point Danny's a 2 dimensional offensive player... 3 pt shooter and foul drawer (if you consider that a dimension). Joe's a much more versatile player. He can do more things offensively, it's as simple as that, therefore he's the better all around offensive player. I don't buy Danny's slightly more efficient scoring trumps Joe's superiority in the other tangible and intangible offensive categories.

    We're getting way off topic from my original post, though. The moral of the story is it's lame for me to say my stats are better than yours because when it comes to stats there are no absolutes (especially advanced stats). They can be read differently by different people. Some put more stock in certain stats than others, and that's perfectly fine. We're all entitled to our opinions.
    JJ is going into the post against guards, while DG is posting forwards. Most 2-guards in the league now are between 6'3 and 6'6. JJ is 6'8 like 230 lol. But we could argue for days about these two I'm sure.

    I agree with you 100%, different people have different opinions on ways to grade a player. I'm glad you can at least see that for the most part, DG and JJ are about the same level of player, just with different strengths and weaknesses. Most feel the grass is greener, and I guess I often feel the need to defend DG because he;s been a good soilder through most of his prime years.

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  28. #196
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Lol at the comparison between Danny and JJ.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Lol at the comparison between Danny and JJ.
    Speaking of the grass is greener...

    JJ is marginally better at best... Same goes for Josh Smith and maybe Monta at his best...
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  31. #198
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I am not sure you can. This has nothing to do with Danny but more to do with his contract. I think he has a negative trade value and I doubt you can get a first rounder for him, even one that would be low. If Danny leaves the team, I don't think he will be traded but his contract will be allowed to expire and he will sign a new, much lower contract with another team. You might trade him if you throw in first round draft picks and other players but those player would not be ones you would like to trade. I might be surprised. Bird pulled a miracle moving JO but a big man might be more in demand than Granger..... ...
    This is one of the most brain damaged things I've read in a while.

    I do like how you kept saying "you" and not "we" though. Even you don't consider yourself part of the Pacers fanbase, good to know. Makes so much more sense.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    But it is perfectly OK for people to call me a troll, dense or hard headed. What I said here was not an insult and it was very mild compared to the names I get called every day. If you don't apply this standard to everyone, you are merely being a tool for the masses who don't like it when people disagree with them. So lets see you do this same thing to everyone who posts here or, you can stick it where the sun doesn't shine.....
    You have problems.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    Great post and we can add the Pacers as one of the teams in the East where Granger is not the best player. People tend to only look at scoring average and not defense (if they did just that, Granger would be eliminated) and rebounding. This team would come closer to winning without DG than Hibbert.....
    Starting to wonder if you even watch Pacers games.

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