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Thread: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

  1. #126
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Just to boil this down for those who like to take pot shots, who do you think from this list we could acquire for Granger? Keep in mind there were people claiming he was well into the top half of the league in terms of being a #1 player. I count only 4 out of 15 and that's giving the benefit of the doubt in a couple cases. It's not even a debate in the others.

    Roy Hibbert - he counts too
    LeBron James
    Derrick Rose
    Deron Williams
    Kyrie Irving
    Rondo
    Mello
    Bynum
    Monta Ellis*
    Greg Monroe
    Al Horford
    Gerald Henderson*
    John Wall
    Bargnani*
    Orlando*

    Edit: just to clarify this list...and no it's not perfect...these are the players I believe are the best on their respective teams in the Eastern Conference. Orlando I just left off really. I could have put put Winnie the Pooh, Buzz Lightyear or whoever...we all know Danny is better than anyone down there in Magic land. But what about the other players. Pretty stiff competition. Those with an * may be obtainable but not anyone else IMO.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 08-25-2012 at 07:42 PM.

  2. #127
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by HC View Post
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    I really liked the first few points you made. The rest of it was just basically telling him he isn't entitled to his opinion.
    No. It's quite popular on internet message boards to say, "it's just my opinion" as if that is all that matters. That is fine. Absolutely fine. There's just a lot of bad opinions out there.
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  4. #128
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Just to boil this down for those who like to take pot shots, who do you think from this list we could acquire for Granger? Keep in mind there were people claiming he was well into the top half of the league in terms of being a #1 player. I count only 4 out of 15 and that's giving the benefit of the doubt in a couple cases. It's not even a debate in the others.

    Roy Hibbert - he counts too
    LeBron James
    Derrick Rose
    Deron Williams
    Kyrie Irving
    Rondo
    Mello
    Bynum
    Monta Ellis*
    Greg Monroe
    Al Horford
    Gerald Henderson*
    John Wall
    Bargnani*
    Orlando*
    Outside of LBJ, 'Melo Deron, and Rose, every player on that list could potentially be traded for with Granger as the main asset the Pacers would offer.
    Last edited by mattie; 08-25-2012 at 07:53 PM.
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  6. #129
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    I'll give Granger legit #1 status props when he earns it. Not there. Had a couple season in early JO'B statistically, but has not done that yet for us as a playoff team. That means regular season and playoff quality and consistency.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

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  8. #130
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    You misunderstand the grouping and you don't need to be so condescending. I'm not saying Danny isn't better than Deng. I'm saying Derrick Rose is and I simply added a few additional players to those teams to show just how much talent is out there. Try reading the context of the post before railing on someone. The point is, Danny is at the low end in the Eastern Conference for #1's. He's not even the #1 on the Pacers...so there's yet another team.
    I'm not trying to be condescending, just pointing out how ridiculous the post is. You can't consider guys who cannot score as high a volume or even as efficient as Granger on offense better players.

    You're obviously entitled to your opinion, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous that opinion is.

    Glen Beck can get on the radio and say crazy ****. He has that right, but no one takes him serious. Get my point?

    Edit - For the record I've obviously said my fair share of stupid comments, I just take care to adjust my view point if I realize everything I'm saying is just plain wrong.

    Edit 2 - Lastly - I discourage anyone who wants to be lauded for sharing "just their opinion" when that opinion has evidence from every possible angle disputing it. Everyone WANTS to believe certain things. But we have to give that up if the facts refute everything we want to believe.
    Last edited by mattie; 08-25-2012 at 07:48 PM.
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  10. #131
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Outside of LBJ, 'Melo and Rose, every player on that list could potentially be traded for with Granger as the main asset the Pacers would offer.
    This is a cop-out. Of course we could acquire Horford if we gave them Granger and George Hill. BTW, Deron Williams is better than Mello. SF's are a dime a dozen.

  11. #132
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    I'm not trying to be condescending, just pointing out how ridiculous the post is. You can't consider guys who cannot score as high a volume or even as efficient as Granger on offense better players.

    You're obviously entitled to your opinion, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous that opinion is.

    Glen Beck can get on the radio and say crazy ****. He has that right, but no one takes him serious. Get my point?

    Edit - For the record I've obviously said my fair share of stupid comments, I just take care to adjust my view point if I realize everything I'm saying is just plain wrong.

    Edit 2 - Lastly - I discourage anyone who wants to be lauded for sharing "just their opinion" when that opinion has evidence from every possible angle disputing it. Everyone WANTS to believe certain things. But we have to give that up if the facts refute everything we want to believe.
    smh

  12. #133
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    This is a cop-out. Of course we could acquire Horford if we gave them Granger and George Hill. BTW, Deron Williams is better than Mello. SF's are a dime a dozen.
    It's not a cop-out. It's just understanding how trades work in this league. No trade is ever straight up. There's always bits and pieces added to the puzzle depending on what direction each team involved in the trade is looking for.

    I've expressed it before, but I don't even think the Pacers would have to give up Granger for Horford. I think they're looking to dump contracts, load up on picks and start over. That's just a guess, but they missed out on Howard, so they can only really start over since they really don't have much of a core right now.
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    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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  14. #134
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    I think we all need to work on being a little more polite to one another.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  16. #135
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I think we all need to work on being a little more polite to one another.
    Agreed. I feel like I was ambushed.

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  18. #136
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    I'll give Granger legit #1 status props when he earns it. Not there. Had a couple season in early JO'B statistically, but has not done that yet for us as a playoff team. That means regular season and playoff quality and consistency.
    There we go. He's Robin on this team already and that's fine. He may be #3 if Paul reaches potential. That would be even better.

  19. #137
    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Hey BnG hey my apologies, I came off like an ***. For that I apologize.

    I think since I am so blunt, that it probably comes off like I'm assuming I'm coming from a position of superiority. Or something. I dunno. I'm not trust me, I'm quite aware that when I'm not being a dumba*ss (which is most of the time), I'm just a complete @ss in general.

    So with that said, I just try to be more honest, than the less than honest (and quite common) "agree to disagree." When someone makes a ridiculous comment, including myself, I'd much prefer we point that out. That's not an attack on character. Just the truth.

    I'll admit though that when you're writing, versus communicating verbally, it comes off much more dickish.
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    When George Hill is above 15% usage we won 73.5% of games. Below 15% usage we won 61.9%

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  21. #138
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Agreed. I feel like I was ambushed.
    Now you know how I feel

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I think we all need to work on being a little more polite to one another.
    Dale Davis is overrated .............

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Dale Davis is overrated .............
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  24. #141
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Obviously, group #1 basically blows away Granger. An argument could be made that he's as good as Ellis, but I don't think that's true. Ellis is far more explosive offensively.
    Don't get me started. I'll bump post game threads, don't think I won't.
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  26. #142
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Don't get me started. I'll bump post game threads, don't think I won't.

    Ok...I will take the one about Ellis back. I may be talking about the Ellis pre-injury. I don't need him to prove anything anyway.

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  28. #143
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Ok...I will take the one about Ellis back. I may be talking about the Ellis pre-injury. I don't need him to prove anything anyway.
    No worries. It's just that I beat that to death this past year.
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  29. #144
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    No worries. It's just that I beat that to death this past year.
    Not that I would be averse to debate the topic...even if I am debating uphill.

    What's the difference between being guarded by Paul George and Mike Dunleavy or Carlos Delfino? Could it be that Danny dominated because of who guarded him vs who guarded Ellis?...where the Pacers sought to shutdown Ellis because the Pacers are a better team?

    Apparently you've been over this and I'd like to here your response to that.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Not that I would be averse to debate the topic...even if I am debating uphill.

    What's the difference between being guarded by Paul George and Mike Dunleavy or Carlos Delfino? Could it be that Danny dominated because of who guarded him vs who guarded Ellis?...where the Pacers sought to shutdown Ellis because the Pacers are a better team?

    Apparently you've been over this and I'd like to here your response to that.
    Those facts that you are talking about are going to be ignored pretty soon just watch.

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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    I don't think that's a good way of looking at his talent level. Contract values, potential and youth have as much to do with a players trade value as talent. A less talented player on a rookie contract that has potential most likely will have more value then an older player who's on a higher contract. PG may have more trade value then Granger but Granger is still the better player right now. Monroe and John Wall are up and comers but neither player is as good as Granger yet. Even their numbers aren't as good playing on really bad teams. Granger would be putting up bigger numbers as he did in the past if he played for a team like the Wizards. I disagree with most of your prior list, Granger would be the best player on most NBA teams. He still isn't a top tier talent but there just aren't very many of those out there and many are on the same teams.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Just to boil this down for those who like to take pot shots, who do you think from this list we could acquire for Granger? Keep in mind there were people claiming he was well into the top half of the league in terms of being a #1 player. I count only 4 out of 15 and that's giving the benefit of the doubt in a couple cases. It's not even a debate in the others.

    Roy Hibbert - he counts too
    LeBron James
    Derrick Rose
    Deron Williams
    Kyrie Irving
    Rondo
    Mello
    Bynum
    Monta Ellis*
    Greg Monroe
    Al Horford
    Gerald Henderson*
    John Wall
    Bargnani*
    Orlando*

    Edit: just to clarify this list...and no it's not perfect...these are the players I believe are the best on their respective teams in the Eastern Conference. Orlando I just left off really. I could have put put Winnie the Pooh, Buzz Lightyear or whoever...we all know Danny is better than anyone down there in Magic land. But what about the other players. Pretty stiff competition. Those with an * may be obtainable but not anyone else IMO.

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  34. #147
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Those facts that you are talking about are going to be ignored pretty soon just watch.
    I don't think straight up box scores tell you much. Too much else is involved to measure two players.

    Looking at their career stats, even with Ellis' injury, they are in the same neighborhood. Rather than say one is better than the other, the stats indicate:

    Ellis wins with FG%, assists and steals.


    Danny beats him on 3pt%, FT% and rebounds.

    Honestly, I think this just comes down to Danny being the better shooter (particularly on the perimeter) and Ellis having the better handle and play-making skills. Ellis, because of his handle, can probably get his own shot better.

    But most definitely, the Pacers shut down Ellis in the contests last year.

  35. #148
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I don't think that's a good way of looking at his talent level. Contract values, potential and youth have as much to do with a players trade value as talent. A less talented player on a rookie contract that has potential most likely will have more value then an older player who's on a higher contract. PG may have more trade value then Granger but Granger is still the better player right now. Monroe and John Wall are up and comers but neither player is as good as Granger yet. Even their numbers aren't as good playing on really bad teams. Granger would be putting up bigger numbers as he did in the past if he played for a team like the Wizards. I disagree with most of your prior list, Granger would be the best player on most NBA teams. He still isn't a top tier talent but there just aren't very many of those out there and many are on the same teams.
    Ok, if you are correct...just looking at the EC...which of these players is Granger better than?

    For you to be correct, he has to be better than at least one of them right now just looking at the EC:

    Roy Hibbert
    LeBron James
    Derrick Rose
    Deron Williams
    Kyrie Irving
    Rondo
    Mello
    Bynum

    Edit: Heck, while I'm at it. Let's look at the whole NBA. Danny needs to be better than 3 of these guys as well.

    Kevin Durant
    Dwight Howard
    Tim Duncan
    Kevin Love
    Chris Paul
    Dirk Nowtizki
    Blake Griffin
    Rudy Gay
    DeMarcus Cousins
    LaMarcus Aldridge
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 08-25-2012 at 11:07 PM.

  36. #149
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Just looking at the East, here are some of the best players by team:

    1)
    Miami - LeBron James, DWade, Bosh
    Chicago - Derrick Rose, Noah, Deng
    New Jersey - Deron Williams, Joe Johnson
    Cleveland - Kyrie Irving
    Boston - Rondo, Pierce, Garnett
    New York - Mello, Stoudemire
    Philadelphia - Bynum
    Milwaukee - Monta Ellis, Brandon Jennings

    2)
    Detroit - Greg Monroe
    Atlanta - Josh Smith, Al Horford

    3)
    Charlotte - Gerald Henderson
    Washington - John Wall
    Toronto - Bargnani
    Orlando - Winnie the Pooh

    I think Danny fits in group #3 in terms of market value. Obviously, group #1 basically blows away Granger. An argument could be made that he's as good as Ellis, but I don't think that's true. Ellis is far more explosive offensively.

    In group #2, if Atlanta is willing to trade Horford...or Detroit is willing to trade Monroe for Granger...somebody please get on the phone right now!!!

    I suspect the only player we could acquire in these lists is Henderson. Wall is a highly valued young PG. Bargnani is a unique player who brings a different dimension to the court. IDK. I think Danny is near the bottom of the #1's in the Eastern Conference.
    I like your post, so I wanted to put my I switched up a few, added and subtracted.

    I'd have to put Danny in group 1) cause I think he would do more if he was asked to do so, but the Pacers obviously want him to play within the system which is contributing to his lower FGA the last 2 years.

    Elite group)
    Miami - LeBron James, DWade
    Brooklyn - Deron Williams
    Cleveland - Kyrie Irving (upswing)
    Boston - Rondo

    1)
    Miami - Chris Bosh
    Chicago - Derrick Rose (ACL), Noah
    New York - Mello
    Philadelphia - Bynum
    Detroit - Greg Monroe (upswing)
    Atlanta - Josh Smith
    Milwaukee - Monta Ellis

    2)
    Milwaukee - Brandon Jennings
    New York - Tyson Chandler, Stoudimire (knees, contract & down swing)
    Boston - Pierce (old) Garnett (old)
    Chicago - Deng
    Brooklyn - Joe Johnson (contract)
    Atlanta - Al Horford


    3)
    Washington - John Wall (upswing), Nene ()
    Toronto - Bargnani
    Brooklyn - Brook Lopez, Gerald Wallace
    Cleveland - Anderson Varejao
    Chicago - Carlos Boozer (he's like a box of chocolates)
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

  37. #150
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    Default Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Pacer Fan - I actually agree with your post for the most part. I think I confused some with the way I added a few extra names. What I was attempting to convey is that most teams in the NBA actually do have a franchise player better than Danny. I listed a few extra names like Deng, unfortunately, and that led some to think I placed him in the top tier. I tried to clarify, but apparently failed to do that. Anyway, I would say that Derrick Rose is still the better player unless he comes back a different player. I will give him that. Also, as much as I hate to say it, Carmello is significantly better than Granger. Bynum is better as well. Bosh is arguably better. JMHO.

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