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Pacers looking to trade Danny?

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  • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

    Originally posted by CJ Jones View Post
    This is why it's pointless debating with mattie. Joe was an all star who had one of his best offensive seasons. His stats beat Danny's across the board. No reasonable person can look at these numbers and come to the conclusion that Joe had a worse year offensively, but somehow mattie does. He thinks he can just cherry pick a few of his favorite advanced stats (PER, ORtg, etc.) and with them prove without a doubt Danny was better. It makes absolutely no sense. There's more to the game then a few of his favorite statistics. It's annoying enough that he thinks his stats carry so much more weight then others, but then he goes on telling us that if we read the stats differently or have differing opinions than his, we're the dumbasses that don't understand the game. Kinda ironic don't cha think?

    Here are some stats you should use to compare their offensive production long before Mattie's Fave Three.

    usg% - Danny 25.9% / Joe 24.9%
    FGA - Danny 16.4 / Joe 15.8
    FG% - Danny .416 / Joe .454
    3P% - Danny .381 / Joe .388
    AST - Danny 1.9 / Joe 3.9
    AST% - Danny 9.7% / Joe 19.7%
    TOV% - Danny 9.3% / Joe 10.3%
    TS% - Danny .542 / Joe .557
    EFG% - Danny .481 / Joe .521 (EFG% > TS% imo but Joe still beats danny in both)

    Sooo... who do you think's was the better offensive player last year, Joe or Danny?
    Of course Joe had a better season last year. Joe probably had his second best season ever last year. But over their entire career, Danny has been a more efficient scorer.

    If Joe is able to continue his production from last year than I would agree he's a better player but I highly doubt it. Next year we'll see Joe score his 18 at around a 51TS%. But you are right there is no doubt Joe was the better player last year.

    Comment


    • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

      Continually for the record, I'd like to see Granger really step it up this season, as well as everyone else. But if a high-quality trade can be made, I think we should make it. I get this sinking feeling that Granger is holding back the rest of the team, and the last thing we need is an anchor.

      For the off-topic discussions occurring, Granger may be our highest scorer, but I think we've reached the point that he's not our best player any longer. That title and responsibility has fallen onto Roy's very large shoulders. Granger could still be the best player on several teams, but even in a hypothetical (with no implication) Granger-for-Gordon situation, people would still consider Anthony Davis the best player on the team, and the number one option.

      As far as "anyone can make up Danny's 18ppg" argument, this is actually a good call. I think, with the potential improvement by Roy, George, Paul, Lance, and additions of Gerald Green and DJ Augustin (and whomever we get in return for Danny), they could potentially make up for the losses of Dahntay, DC, Barbosa, and (in this scenario) Danny, as far as points-per-game averages go. That might be a stretch, but it could work.

      Whatever happens, happens. Maybe it will work out. If it doesn't, then we're wrong, and there's nothing we can do about it. I'd like to see what happens, though.
      witters: @imbtyler, @postgameonline

      Originally posted by Day-V
      In conclusion, Paul George is awesome.
      Originally posted by Slick Pinkham
      Our arena, their arena, Rucker park, it just doesn't matter. We're bigger, longer, younger, faster, and hungrier.


      Comment


      • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

        Just to add on:

        The reason why I don't take the latest season as who Joe is as a player is out of his 13 seasons in the NBA, he's had 3 random seasons where he shot over .55 TS% (which is average really). Danny has shot over .55TS% 5 out of his 7 seasons in the NBA. I fully expect Danny to shoot around .55 TS% which is ok, (though he should be much better than that as good a shooter as he is) while Joe will regress to the mean.

        There is no doubt someone who has shot .564 for his career is a more efficient scorer than someone who has shot a below average .529 for his career.

        Comment


        • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
          The team was getting blown out with or without Danny, Lebron and Wade were playing out of their minds.
          Absolutely not true, quit talking out of your pie hole. It was a 3 pt game when Granger got hurt with about 4 minutes left in the half. The team got absolutely demoralized after Lebron undercut him. They all collectively **** their pants at the same time.
          You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

          Comment


          • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

            "The team got demoralized"
            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

            Comment


            • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

              Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
              Look at Joe Johnson's playoff stats, they're even worse and he faced a much favorable matchup offensively.

              1st round of the playoffs DG averaged 21ppg. Yeah that's so terrible.

              Joe Johnson? 17.2
              How is facing Pierce, Pietrus and the Boston D a more favorable 1st round matchup then facing a Dwightless Orlando D?

              Looking at the game logs it looks like Danny played well in 2 of the 5 games. Danny's poor play in game 1 was arguably the main reason we lost that game. If Danny played anywhere close to how he played in the first round of the Bulls series in 2011 we'd have swept them with ease.

              Then he decides to not even show up for a very winnable game 1 in Miami...

              Comment


              • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                [QUOTE]
                Originally posted by mattie View Post
                Of course Joe had a better season last year. Joe probably had his second best season ever last year. But over their entire career, Danny has been a more efficient scorer.
                Okay i'll give you that, but you can't just dismiss the fact that Joe's twice the playmaker and ten times the ball handler.

                Comment


                • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                  Originally posted by imbtyler View Post

                  For the off-topic discussions occurring, Granger may be our highest scorer, but I think we've reached the point that he's not our best player any longer. That title and responsibility has fallen onto Roy's very large shoulders. Granger could still be the best player on several teams, but even in a hypothetical (with no implication) Granger-for-Gordon situation, people would still consider Anthony Davis the best player on the team, and the number one option.

                  As far as "anyone can make up Danny's 18ppg" argument, this is actually a good call. I think, with the potential improvement by Roy, George, Paul, Lance, and additions of Gerald Green and DJ Augustin (and whomever we get in return for Danny), they could potentially make up for the losses of Dahntay, DC, Barbosa, and (in this scenario) Danny, as far as points-per-game averages go. That might be a stretch, but it could work.
                  I don't think Davis will ever be a number 1 option on any team. Thats just not in his game.

                  2nd, this whole anybody could replace Danny's 18 per game is the most ridiculous idea that has been repeated over and over in this thread. It needs to stop. To score 18+ a game and be on a team with the 5th best record in the league, you have to be good. People say Granger needs to step it up because he once scored 25 per game on a really bad team, s0 should be able to replicate that performance if he was really good. That line of thinking is narrowmind. When Granger averaged 25 per game, Hibbert only averaged 7, guys like David West were only a pipe dream, we had a terrible offense. We now have a pretty decent offense where any of our 5 starters can get us 20+ a game on any given night. So Granger gets his balls busted around here because he isn't averaging +25 while all these other players on the team are talking a ton more shots then they used to. For Granger to average 24-25 per game he would need to take 6 more shots per game on average. If he took 6 more shots per game on average you would all call him a terrible ball hog. In his all-star year he took 19 per game to average 25. The year before his allstar game he took 15 to average 19pts. Last year he took 15 to average 18.7.

                  Granger has been very consistent in terms of shot attempts and production. Yet you all say he is on the downslide. It just not true.
                  You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                    Personally, I like having long wings on defense....Granger is going to be around for a while, unless Indiana is given a no-brainer trade. Everyone knows how often those occur.

                    As a side note, we shouldn't be that caught up in individual stats. Indiana is built to be and plays like a TEAM.
                    Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 08-26-2012, 01:44 PM.


                    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                      Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                      "The team got demoralized"
                      Which means you haven't got a leg to stand on in this argument anymore.
                      You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                        Originally posted by mattie View Post
                        Just to add on:

                        The reason why I don't take the latest season as who Joe is as a player is out of his 13 seasons in the NBA, he's had 3 random seasons where he shot over .55 TS% (which is average really). Danny has shot over .55TS% 5 out of his 7 seasons in the NBA. I fully expect Danny to shoot around .55 TS% which is ok, (though he should be much better than that as good a shooter as he is) while Joe will regress to the mean.

                        There is no doubt someone who has shot .564 for his career is a more efficient scorer than someone who has shot a below average .529 for his career.
                        Also, JJ was the 2nd nest player on the Hawks behind J Smith, and arguably the 3rd best behind a healthy Horford, so with those players around him you'd think it'd be easier to score efficiently due to the defense having to respect the other two.

                        It's no doubt JJ had a better season than Danny but without Horford on his team he still only averaged .3 ppg more than DG last yr.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                          Originally posted by mattie View Post
                          Just to add on:


                          There is no doubt someone who has shot .564 for his career is a more efficient scorer than someone who has shot a below average .529 for his career.
                          I see you prefer TS% over eFG%. I'd rather look at eFG%, though... Danny .503 Joe .494. Better, yeah, but not by much. Not nearly enough to back up your view that Danny's been the superior offensive player throughout his career considering all of his limitations.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                            Originally posted by CJ Jones View Post
                            I see you prefer TS% over eFG%. I'd rather look at eFG%, though... Danny .503 Joe .494. Better, yeah, but not by much. Not nearly enough to back up your view that Danny's been the superior offensive player throughout his career considering all of his limitations.
                            I generally prefer TS% too. Means that Danny is getting to the line more, which is a good thing.

                            To me the similarities between Danny and JJ trump the small percentage differences in their stats. True, JJ is better in assists, but Danny trumps him in rebounds, FTAs, and blocks. Arguably JJ would be a better fit with the Pacers, since we lack playmaking, but they seem to be similar levels of talent. And I think that's more of a knock on JJ than a compliment to Danny.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                              Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                              Try taking Roy off this team and see what it does to our defense. I hope you all know it would be a layup and-one drill if it weren't for him. Defense is half of this game guys.

                              We have guys like West, Hibbert, George and Hill to shoot. None are good as Danny, but without Hibbert on defense we are really, really exposed. Tyler and DWest are not stopping anybody.
                              Great post and we can add the Pacers as one of the teams in the East where Granger is not the best player. People tend to only look at scoring average and not defense (if they did just that, Granger would be eliminated) and rebounding. This team would come closer to winning without DG than Hibbert.....

                              Comment


                              • Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

                                Originally posted by CJ Jones View Post
                                How is facing Pierce, Pietrus and the Boston D a more favorable 1st round matchup then facing a Dwightless Orlando D?

                                Looking at the game logs it looks like Danny played well in 2 of the 5 games. Danny's poor play in game 1 was arguably the main reason we lost that game. If Danny played anywhere close to how he played in the first round of the Bulls series in 2011 we'd have swept them with ease.

                                Then he decides to not even show up for a very winnable game 1 in Miami...
                                Pierce is not a very good defender anymore. His laterally quickness is all about gone. And Pietrus barely played in that series(16 mpg) and he is an overrated defender.

                                If you wanna say Danny didn't show up then you HAVE to say the same about JJ

                                Comment

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