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Thread: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

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    Default Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles


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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    So, what is the evidence against him?
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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    I would love to know. As far as I (and the rest of the world) knows, there is no evidence or proof that shows he cheated.

    This is 100% wrong of them to do.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    What a bizarre situation. Unless there's a report showing some substantial evidence in the next few days I have to say this is a disgrace.

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    It wouldn't surprise me a bit if eventually Armstrong admits it, but this is pretty ridiculous. Cycling's about as corrupt as it gets.

    Anyway, what's the USADA doing stripping people of titles they have no control over? It's not the Tour de New York or something.
    Last edited by Heisenberg; 08-23-2012 at 11:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    He's been trying to negotiate a way to minimize damage to his name for a long time, right? Sorry, but with cycling's history, there have been rumors that he'd eventually be caught for years. Don't know how legit those are, but we're talking about cycling. I'd be surprised if he was clean.

    Wasn't he banned for a period before his cancer/ surgeries? I thought that was part of the story.
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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    He wasn't banned as far as I know, but multiple former teammates have gone on record saying he doped. That's not evidence, but I mean, c'mon, it's cycling. I do think he cheated, but if you can't actually prove it I'm not cool with stripping titles.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    Except how do you get caught if your samples are clean? I don't think I heard anything about a tainted sample.

    Or are they applying modern knowledge to the reports and seeing something that wouldn't have raised a flag back in the day (but does now)?
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    As far as I've heard, he's had hundreds of clean samples. So where's the proof then?

    It's quite possible he doped, probable even. But I agree with Lance, I think the USADA has it out for him just for the sake of making him look bad. They're doing whatever they can to get him convicted, and I think it's ridiculous.

    And I don't necessarily believe any of his ex-teammates. They may very well just being trying to save their own skin.
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    But why would the USADASONYADADAWHATEVER want to take down Armstrong? What do they gain?
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    All the evidence USADA has is hearsay. And they don't actually have the power to strip his titles. So even if they do, it doesn't really matter much.

    Of course Lance cheated. So did everyone else. Its cycling, it runs rampant. And it has for awhile. And it will continue to do so. I remember reading that something like 70% of the riders that finished on the podium with Lance in his 7 wins had tested positive at some point in their career.

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    But why would the USADASONYADADAWHATEVER want to take down Armstrong? What do they gain?
    I assume they think credibility for the sport. You take down the sacred cow then who won't you take down? Doping is GIGANTIC in cycling. I'm just surprised so many are convinced Armstrong didn't cheat.

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    I'm like everyone else... It's so rampant I figure he probably did. But OTOH, it ain't cheating if you don't get caught. Being accused (IMHO) isn't being caught though and only the accusations seems like what the USADA has. ...Unless there's another shoe to drop.
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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    I think that USADA's accusations are primarily based on witness reports. If these are enough to convict somebody in a murder case, they should probably also be in a doping case (assuming of course that the witness reports are trustworthy).

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Pingu View Post
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    I think that USADA's accusations are primarily based on witness reports. If these are enough to convict somebody in a murder case, they should probably also be in a doping case (assuming of course that the witness reports are trustworthy).
    But then what about the testing he passed? Wouldn't that counter a witness?

    If I accuse someone of murder, and then they produce evidence that they didn't do it, why would I still be believed?

    I guess I'm still confused if the samples always came back clean how that doesn't trump about anything else, regardless of what we believe 'probably' happened.
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    He wasn't banned as far as I know, but multiple former teammates have gone on record saying he doped. That's not evidence, but I mean, c'mon, it's cycling. I do think he cheated, but if you can't actually prove it I'm not cool with stripping titles.
    And most of those former teammates have gone on record saying he doped to save their own skins. Can't trust their testimony at all.

    The USADA has surrendered to the French with no proof whatsoever.
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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    But then what about the testing he passed? Wouldn't that counter a witness?

    If I accuse someone of murder, and then they produce evidence that they didn't do it, why would I still be believed?

    I guess I'm still confused if the samples always came back clean how that doesn't trump about anything else, regardless of what we believe 'probably' happened.
    There is a report about one (1), ONE out of hundreds if not thousands of samples. A 2008 B sample that some Frenchie newspaper or sports rag had tested that showed positive. Of course, that brings up the question of just how in the hell they managed to get ahold of it in the first place...
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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    Nothing like watching an American folk hero get knocked down like this...such a sad day.

    I always assumed he cheated, I mean it's cycling, but it's just sad to see it handled like this. That sport really needs to get its **** together.

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    But then what about the testing he passed? Wouldn't that counter a witness?

    If I accuse someone of murder, and then they produce evidence that they didn't do it, why would I still be believed?

    I guess I'm still confused if the samples always came back clean how that doesn't trump about anything else, regardless of what we believe 'probably' happened.
    You raise a a great point. All the witnesses in the world won't (or shouldn't, ideally) do much for USADA unless they have a good story explaining how Armstrong could have used drugs all this time and yet not ever test positive. I haven't seen anything that looked like such a story so far (at least not reported in the news), but I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that they must have one.

    The UCI has asked USADA to release the evidence they have and give a proper explanation of why Armstrong should be stripped of hisTour titles, so I guess we'll know soon. One thing seems clear to me: USADA has no power to strip Armstrong of his Tour titles, so if that ends up happening, it will be because USADA's evidence is good enough to convince people who have no interest at all in seeing this happening, like the UCI.

    I think it's a mistake to think that anybody who has anything to do with cycling has any interest in Armstrong being stripped of his titles. Nobody, not the Tour organizers, not the UCI, not the other riders, have any interest in the biggest cycling legend losing his titles.
    Last edited by Pingu; 08-24-2012 at 10:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    And most of those former teammates have gone on record saying he doped to save their own skins. Can't trust their testimony at all.

    The USADA has surrendered to the French with no proof whatsoever.
    Lance, is that you?

    More seriously, you just summed up in two sentences the reason why many people on both sides of the Atlantic have grown tired of Armstrong's antics. The whole 'witch hunt' defense developed by Armstrong is ridiculous.

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    Masking agents, people.

    Most athletes today don't get caught with the drug, they get caught with the masking agent.

    I wonder if they've been able to determine something with the lab results and newer information about the masking agents everybody was taking?

    There is little doubt in my mind that he's clean.

    OJ was acquitted due to a lack of physical evidence.

    If he really believed he'd win the fight, he wouldn't quit. USADA may only be able to win its case 51-49, but that's enough for a civil trial. He's clearly convinced there is enough evidence to make it difficult for him to continue to self-promote his persona/ ego.
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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    there is also corruption. Masking agents, synthetic urine, even paying off the test administrator. There was a lot of money to be made for several people as long as Lance was winning and competing.
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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Masking agents, people.

    Most athletes today don't get caught with the drug, they get caught with the masking agent.

    I wonder if they've been able to determine something with the lab results and newer information about the masking agents everybody was taking?

    There is little doubt in my mind that he's clean.

    OJ was acquitted due to a lack of physical evidence.

    If he really believed he'd win the fight, he wouldn't quit. USADA may only be able to win its case 51-49, but that's enough for a civil trial. He's clearly convinced there is enough evidence to make it difficult for him to continue to self-promote his persona/ ego.
    OJ was acquitted because there wasn't a video camera showing him doing the crime... and I wonder if that would've been enough?
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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  27. #24

    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    It seems kinda of BS to do this simply because he is no longer willing to say he is innocent 100 times a day. If they had enough proof to do this, they should have done it regardless of how defiantly he fought them.

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    Default Re: Lance Armstrong to be banned, stripped of all titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Pingu View Post
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    Lance, is that you?

    More seriously, you just summed up in two sentences the reason why many people on both sides of the Atlantic have grown tired of Armstrong's antics. The whole 'witch hunt' defense developed by Armstrong is ridiculous.
    I hate dragging politics into sport, but am I the only person who is concerned about a organization funded by our government (thus, funded by us) sticking their noses into the business of international sanctioning bodies where they don't belong based on flimsy evidence by people who got caught doping and thus are fighting for their careers? I can't consider their testimony to be trustworthy. The French are just mad that he whooped their homeboys arses on their home turf for years.

    Personally, I think the UCI should tell the USADA to take their bans and stripped titles and stick it up their own arses. They are clearly overstepping their boundaries and they should be slapped back. Unfortunately for Lance, legal bills aren't cheap, and with government money, the USADA has infinitely more resources at their disposal.
    Last edited by Sandman21; 08-24-2012 at 04:38 PM.
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