View Poll Results: Who is the best coach in Pacers history

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  • Bob "Slick" Leonard

    34 41.46%
  • Larry Brown

    20 24.39%
  • Larry Bird

    18 21.95%
  • Rick Carlisle

    10 12.20%
  • Other

    0 0%
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Thread: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

  1. #26
    Member PR07's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    I'd probably go with Slick Leonard, with Larry Bird in second place (due to the fact the longevity wasn't there).

  2. #27
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    If we didn't have Larry Brown's fourth season, which is also known as The Season We Do Not Discuss, I think he'd be near-unanimous at the top of this poll.

    For three seasons I absolutely loved him as the Pacers coach.

    Over my half-season package that final season, I sat in MSA and watched the Pacers go 4-18 or something awful like that. Just maddening how bad those of us on that half of the ticket split had it.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  3. #28
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    If we didn't have Larry Brown's fourth season, which is also known as The Season We Do Not Discuss, I think he'd be near-unanimous at the top of this poll.
    I dunno, he'd still be fighting uphill battle against Slick's 3 ABA championships. It would definitely be even closer in an already tight race, though.
    BillS

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  4. #29
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    I cannot pick Slick because I never saw him coach - so how would I know. So I use the same principle as I do with players. Unless I watched them I cannot really comment

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    I think quite a few people need to check the rafters the next time they're at the Bank.

    To mirror my JOB/Isiah argument, Larry Brown may very well be the better coach, but Slick did a much better job coaching the Pacers.

    As for the others in the poll, all I know is Bird and Carlisle were wildly outcoached by George Karl (with a major scouting assist from Rick Majerus) in the 1st round of the 2000 playoffs. Just embarrassing how outcoached we were. It took Reggie putting on a freaking superhero costume to even get us to game 5, let alone Travis' last shot (and yes, Dale's monster rebound assist.) It's really something to think how different the last 12 years would be if that shot hadn't gone in.

    On that alone, it's a two man race as far as I'm concerned. And looking at the results, it's an easy choice to me.
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  6. #31
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I cannot pick Slick because I never saw him coach - so how would I know.
    I didn't have to live in the 1700's to know George Washington was pretty darn good.
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  8. #32
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    I didn't have to live in the 1700's to know George Washington was pretty darn good.
    Yeah I don't understand that line of thinking at all. Should people 20 years from now who never saw Michael Jordan play automatically throw him out of any greatest players of all time debates?

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  9. #33
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    OK, I can say sure Slick did a great job. His championships prove it. But beyond that how do I really know.

    I'm not being critical of Slick, but I don't feel qualified to have an opinion beyond stating the facts that he won championships.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 08-24-2012 at 01:41 PM.

  10. #34
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I cannot pick Slick because I never saw him coach - so how would I know. So I use the same principle as I do with players. Unless I watched them I cannot really comment
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Yeah I don't understand that line of thinking at all. Should people 20 years from now who never saw Michael Jordan play automatically throw him out of any greatest players of all time debates?
    I think at some point you can do research and make an objective evaluation to get a relative ranking of players, meaning having actually seen them isn't necessary. Usually, though, these kinds of things boil down to who do you LIKE best, and in that case the "haven't seen so-and-so play/coach" is perfectly valid.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
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  11. #35
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Yeah I don't understand that line of thinking at all. Should people 20 years from now who never saw Michael Jordan play automatically throw him out of any greatest players of all time debates?
    no, but I think they should mention they have never seen himplay and I think IMO that ends the debate right there. Lets debate players you have seen.

    JMO

  12. #36
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    no, but I think they should mention they have never seen himplay and I think IMO that ends the debate right there. Lets debate players you have seen.

    JMO
    Well it is a different era now with the ease one can find old games even from the 70s.

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  13. #37
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Well it is a different era now with the ease one can find old games even from the 70s.
    IMO watching a few tapes here and there isn't the same thing as being alive at the time and getting a much IMO better understanding of how good a player is

    I don't see how I could possibly determine who was better Wilt or Shaq? I don't really look at stats, so what can base my judgment on.

    But I can determine if Shaq was better than Kareem.

    I mean if you want to just use stats or won loss records, we can do that, but where is the fun in that.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 08-24-2012 at 02:48 PM.

  14. #38
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    The reason why I think it's relatively unfair to automatically hand it to Slick because of his accomplishments of championships is because that was a whole 'nother time period. There were only 11 teams 2 of the years he won and only 10 teams the other year. Also he had superstars on his team, where as in this day and age we really don't get superstars in Indiana. I'm not taking away from all his great accomplishments, because I do love the guy, but he did have a lot more talent to work with and a lot less competition.

  15. #39
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Yeah I don't understand that line of thinking at all. Should people 20 years from now who never saw Michael Jordan play automatically throw him out of any greatest players of all time debates?
    It's hard to give a true assessment of someone when you've never seen them play or coach. I've never seen Slick Leonard coach either, so in spite of his championships and other accolades, its hard for me to differentiate him from Carlisle, Bird, Brown, etc.

    If you wanna gague off of wins and accolades (and championships) then obviously it's Bobby. If not, then it's a completely different ball-game. Though I was completely ready for him to leave here by the end of his tenure, I really liked what Carlisle brought to our team, especially defensively.

    That post-brawl team of nobodys that was coached up by Rick; played their hearts out every game while our stars were suspended (Tinsley, Fred Jones, James Jones, Jeff Foster, Scot Pollard, etc) will always hold a special place in my heart.

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  17. #40
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Yeah I don't understand that line of thinking at all. Should people 20 years from now who never saw Michael Jordan play automatically throw him out of any greatest players of all time debates?
    I was in Springfield, MA last week at the Hall of Fame. Told Jay's_Daughter@Section222 stories of, in my opinion, the three best players ever: Wilt, Oscar, and Sabonis.

    Did I ever see the first two play? No. But I did my research.

    But lots of people dismiss those three from the best of all-time debates because we don't have enough televised games from the 1960s/early 70s to pick from or enough televised games from behind the Iron Curtain to pick from.

    Doesn't diminish their accomplishments at all.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  18. #41
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I was in Springfield, MA last week at the Hall of Fame. Told Jay's_Daughter@Section222 stories of, in my opinion, the three best players ever: Wilt, Oscar, and Sabonis.

    Did I ever see the first two play? No. But I did my research.

    But lots of people dismiss those three from the best of all-time debates because we don't have enough televised games from the 1960s/early 70s to pick from or enough televised games from behind the Iron Curtain to pick from.

    Doesn't diminish their accomplishments at all.
    I saw Wilt and Oscar play a lot. I only saw Sabonis when he was past his prime. So, I agree with you about Wilt and Oscar but I would have added Bill Russell....... ...

  19. #42
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    IMO watching a few tapes here and there isn't the same thing as being alive at the time and getting a much IMO better understanding of how good a player is

    I don't see how I could possibly determine who was better Wilt or Shaq? I don't really look at stats, so what can base my judgment on.

    But I can determine if Shaq was better than Kareem.

    I mean if you want to just use stats or won loss records, we can do that, but where is the fun in that.
    Let me help you with that. Shaq shouldn't even be mentioned with Kareem and Wilt, there was that much difference. If Wilt had been allowed to push and bang like, Shaq, he would have averaged 50 a game for his career....... ...

  20. #43
    Formerly QuickRelease NapTonius Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    I'm a bit too young to remember. How was Jack Ramsay's tenure here?

  21. #44
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    And slick will always be number 1! Primarily because I learn so much just from listening to him. Boom Baby!

  22. #45
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I'm a bit too young to remember. How was Jack Ramsay's tenure here?
    First season, Clark Kellogg got hurt right away, put the rookie Rifleman in the lineup and went from a low-20 win team to 0.500 and the playoffs. Chuck vs. Dominique was one of the highlights of the playoffs. You've probably seen the famous Dominique vs. Bird matchup on YouTube that took place in the next round. Second season, Reggie's rookie year - played sixth man - and what turned out to be Stipo's last season. Just missed the playoffs on the last day of the season, frustrating end. Got lucky in the lottery, drafted Smits but still didn't know Stipo would never play again. Got off to an ugly 0-7 start and that was it.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  24. #46
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    First season, Clark Kellogg got hurt right away, put the rookie Rifleman in the lineup and went from a low-20 win team to 0.500 and the playoffs. Chuck vs. Dominique was one of the highlights of the playoffs. You've probably seen the famous Dominique vs. Bird matchup on YouTube that took place in the next round. Second season, Reggie's rookie year - played sixth man - and what turned out to be Stipo's last season. Just missed the playoffs on the last day of the season, frustrating end. Got lucky in the lottery, drafted Smits but still didn't know Stipo would never play again. Got off to an ugly 0-7 start and that was it.
    Do you have notebooks full of Pacer facts? Seriously, you have an encyclopedic knowledge of the franchise's history. It's great.

  25. #47
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Nah. But Basketball-reference.com does help me recall some details. For example, this was my Facebook post a few weeks ago when Dan Roundfield drowned...

    The first professional basketball game I ever attended, back in 1977, Dan Roundfield was the Pacers' starting C. And I believe they defeated the evil Bulls on that Sunday afternoon. Darnell Hillman, Billy Knight and Don Buse were also in the starting lineup that day. Sad news.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/82...d-drowns-aruba
    Really what this means is I've just been to or watched a lot of games.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  26. #48
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Just missed the playoffs on the last day of the season, frustrating end. Got lucky in the lottery, drafted Smits but still didn't know Stipo would never play again.
    The Mrs. and I were at that game and it about killed me. Watching Stipos' semi layup just barely roll off the rim and New Yawk celebrating at center court. That's when I first had a dislike for the Knicks. Didn't get the hate till later of course, and that took a lot to push the Celtics to #2 on the list.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  27. #49
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I'm a bit too young to remember. How was Jack Ramsay's tenure here?

    Ramsay's biggest claim to fame is being JOB's father-in-law...... I'm just kidding. Dr. Jack has always been a great coach and spokesman for the game. ...

  28. #50
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    Default Re: Who is the best coach in Pacers history?

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    The Mrs. and I were at that game and it about killed me. Watching Stipos' semi layup just barely roll off the rim and New Yawk celebrating at center court. That's when I first had a dislike for the Knicks. Didn't get the hate till later of course, and that took a lot to push the Celtics to #2 on the list.
    I also was at that game & that was the very day I started calling Pat Ewing "Gladiator". He was a one man wrecking machine.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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