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Thread: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Quote Originally Posted by Swingman View Post
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    So you think it's reasonable to think the Colts will go 0-16 this year and suck for 5 years straight? It also must be reasonable to counterpoint any positive opinions on the Colts future in the post-Manning era. And finally, it must be reasonable to think Irsay is a cheapskate and pocketing money despite the facts pointing to the contrary.

    Yes, I can see why someone may think the Colts will be bad THIS year. However, Olblu's opinions are not reasonable when taken as a whole.
    Two franchise QB's ago:

    1990, 7-9
    1991, 1-15 (playing against a regular schedule)
    1992, 9-7 (playing against a "fifth-place" schedule)
    1993, 4-12 (playing against a regular schedule)
    1994, traded away, and a journeyman QB that was a legit leader carried them to an 8-8 record against a "fifth-place" schedule and playoff run.

    Sure, that was really under Bob's watch, but this team hasn't been very good at converting highly-picked QBs into franchise QBs with one exception.

    You're counting on lightning to strike twice? Might take more than just "Luck".

    With Harrison, Faulk/ Edge, and a capable line, the previous franchise QB also had a lot more to work with.

    Of course, I'm no fan of the Irsays so these opinions aren't as offensive to me.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  2. #102

    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    True. The Steelers have no need for him.

    But the Jets might.

    What would the Jets do with him? Their QBs wouldn't be able to get him the ball in the first place....
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness View Post
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    What would the Jets do with him? Their QBs wouldn't be able to get him the ball in the first place....
    True. But you know, there are some people out there that really believe the receivers or even the quality of the QB are the keys to the passing game.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  4. #104
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Two franchise QB's ago:

    1990, 7-9
    1991, 1-15 (playing against a regular schedule)
    1992, 9-7 (playing against a "fifth-place" schedule)
    1993, 4-12 (playing against a regular schedule)
    1994, traded away, and a journeyman QB that was a legit leader carried them to an 8-8 record against a "fifth-place" schedule and playoff run.

    Sure, that was really under Bob's watch, but this team hasn't been very good at converting highly-picked QBs into franchise QBs with one exception.

    You're counting on lightning to strike twice? Might take more than just "Luck".

    With Harrison, Faulk/ Edge, and a capable line, the previous franchise QB also had a lot more to work with.

    Of course, I'm no fan of the Irsays so these opinions aren't as offensive to me.
    None of those years include a 0-16 season. In fact, the Colts haven't gone thru a season with 0 wins since being in Indianapolis.

    Not sure where there's proof in there that Olblu's opinions are reasonable.

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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Given that there has only been one zero-win team in the past 30 years, I don't think 0-16 is reasonable. Even the '86 Colts, which was far worse than the '91 Colts, won three games.

    But the idea that they still won't be a very good team 4-5 years down the road is pretty reasonable. There are plenty of NFL teams that draft a franchise QB and still end up with really high draft picks for a while. I'm not saying Luck will be as bad as the following, but there's a long list of recent top-10 QB's that were failures or just haven't really done anything yet, such as Bradford, Ryan, Russell, Young, Leinhart, Carr, Couch, Leaf, Leftwich, and Akili Smith have all been drafted to be franchise QB's since Manning. There have been some successes, like Eli Manning, and I guess Sanchez, Carson Palmer, Rivers, Vick even Stafford.

    There are many more failures than successes, often because QB is not the biggest need of a really terrible team with a high draft pick. With nobody to hand off to, nobody to protect the left side of the line, or a defense that can't get stops, that's a lot of pressure to put on just one player.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  6. #106
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Given that there has only been one zero-win team in the past 30 years, I don't think 0-16 is reasonable. Even the '86 Colts, which was far worse than the '91 Colts, won three games.

    But the idea that they still won't be a very good team 4-5 years down the road is pretty reasonable. There are plenty of NFL teams that draft a franchise QB and still end up with really high draft picks for a while. I'm not saying Luck will be as bad as the following, but there's a long list of recent top-10 QB's that were failures or just haven't really done anything yet, such as Bradford, Ryan, Russell, Young, Leinhart, Carr, Couch, Leaf, Leftwich, and Akili Smith have all been drafted to be franchise QB's since Manning. There have been some successes, like Eli Manning, and I guess Sanchez, Carson Palmer, Rivers, Vick even Stafford.

    There are many more failures than successes, often because QB is not the biggest need of a really terrible team with a high draft pick. With nobody to hand off to, nobody to protect the left side of the line, or a defense that can't get stops, that's a lot of pressure to put on just one player.
    Luck is already better than every single QB you listed in the "failure" category. I also think you should omit Carson Palmer from the "success" catergory
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    It's not like it didn't take some time with Manning. 3-13 rookie season. Years 2 and 3 were excellent, but we lost our first playoff game. His 4th season was the dreadful 6-10 year in which he played pretty poorly by his standards. That was the infamous Jim Mora "playoffs year". Things improved in Dungy's first year (Manning's 5th), but we were slaughtered 41-0 by the Jets. We finally won a playoff game in Manning's 6th season.

    With our new team, it all comes down to how smart our front office is. The Colts will have an obscene amount of cap space next season. If we are smart, then we will use a decent chunk of that money on the O-Line to protect Luck. I could really care less what happened with Jeff George 20 years ago, or even with Manning 14 years ago. None of that will have any bearing on how successful the team is with Luck. The only similarities is that they all had the beautiful horseshoe on their helmets. That's it.

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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    If we did get first pick again I wouldn't exactly complain. I mean, I would while the season's happening, but it'd be preferable to the probable 5-11/6-10 year. Imagine the bounty we could sell Matt Barkley for. Talk about jumpstarting a rebuild.

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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Over six years, these were the Colts five picks: Harrison, Glenn, Manning, James, and then Wayne.

    And the James pick was a bit controversial as Faulk was just entering his prime. I guess the trade worked out for everyone.

    Does Luck really have the #1 receiving target, the guy protecting his blind side, and the guy to hand off too? Already in place? Are they just a great #2 receiver away?

    And even then, it took everything that Pollian touched (and Tobin wasn't shabby either) turning to gold.

    Let's just say lightning doesn't strike twice? Then what? You give up on Akili Smith and start over yet again with Carson Palmer?

    You give up on Tim Couch and start over yet again with who? Nobody yet. You give on Joey Harrington and start over again with who? (Not Stafford, not immediately at least.)

    These were all really high draft picks dropped into unstable, bad teams.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  12. #110
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Let's just say lightning doesn't strike twice? Then what? You give up on Akili Smith and start over yet again with Carson Palmer?

    You give up on Tim Couch and start over yet again with who? Nobody yet. You give on Joey Harrington and start over again with who? (Not Stafford, not immediately at least.)

    These were all really high draft picks dropped into unstable, bad teams.
    Generalization of this sort is what OlBlu does --- if you've been watching any college football at all you'd know that Luck is head and shoulders above all these other high QB picks you've named... it's not even a fair comparison. Luck had the same aura/hype around him that LeBron had pre-NBA... they both are once-in-a-generation special players with out-of-this-world talent. These other guys, arguably weren't even special players in their own draft. They were just considered good talents, that could help a team, and far from a surefire thing. For instance, Stafford was the underwhelming #1 pick in an underwhelming 2009 draft --- Luck was the clearcut #1 pick in the strongest quarterback draft in 30 years (since the '83 draft).

    Can't even begin to compare Luck to these guys. He's on a Elway/LeBron... Ken Griffey Jr... Shaq level of talent. Where a guy comes in so obviously good that everyone can see it. Luck could've come out 2 years ago and been #1 in the draft --- ahead of Sam Bradford... ahead of Cam Newton. And he was clearly ahead of RG3 in the same draft, who arguably would be considered better than those two had he come out at the same time.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 08-27-2012 at 04:51 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

  13. #111
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Generalization of this sort is what OlBlu does --- if you've been watching any college football at all you'd know that Luck is head and shoulders above all these other high QB picks you've named... it's not even a fair comparison. Luck had the same aura/hype around him that LeBron had pre-NBA... they both are once-in-a-generation special players with out-of-this-world talent. These other guys, arguably weren't even special players in their own draft. They were just considered good talents, that could help a team, and far from a surefire thing. For instance, Stafford was the underwhelming #1 pick in an underwhelming 2009 draft --- Luck was the clearcut #1 pick in the strongest quarterback draft in 30 years (since the '83 draft).

    Can't even begin to compare Luck to these guys. He's on a Elway/LeBron... Ken Griffey Jr... Shaq level of talent. Where a guy comes in so obviously good that everyone can see it. Luck could've come out 2 years ago and been #1 in the draft --- ahead of Sam Bradford... ahead of Cam Newton. And he was clearly ahead of RG3 in the same draft, who arguably would be considered better than those two had he come out at the same time.
    So you're telling me that football has become a one-man sport, and that man plays QB?

    Who's he going to tackle? Drop back into pass coverage or attack the gaps to stop the run? How many blockers will he occupy? Sideline to sideline or vertical?

    He doesn't even play both sides of the ball? He's only playing one side of the ball and he doesn't have anybody to block for him, or anybody to hand it to. Who cares who the receivers are when he's laying on his back or throwing it into the stands because he doesn't have any time.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  14. #112
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Lol, when in the nine hells did I ever say that.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    As for the rest of your argument... we don't know who the players are on this team yet. And when Manning came in, we didn't *know* that Harrison would become a Hall of Fame receiver... we didn't know Faulk would be gone the next year and have a HoF career after the Colts... T Glenn wasn't a "surefire" great tackle.... We had a bunch of unproven guys, and a string of consecutive awful seasons to "look at", and ya know what? We became pretty good after that. But we didn't "know" that at the time in 1998. At that time, we still sucked, we had a mass of Colt-hate going on right here in our own state, everyone hated the Colts, and everyone thought we would suck, that we still sucked, and that Manning was the incorrect choice (over Leaf).
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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  17. #114
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Given that there has only been one zero-win team in the past 30 years, I don't think 0-16 is reasonable. Even the '86 Colts, which was far worse than the '91 Colts, won three games.

    But the idea that they still won't be a very good team 4-5 years down the road is pretty reasonable. There are plenty of NFL teams that draft a franchise QB and still end up with really high draft picks for a while. I'm not saying Luck will be as bad as the following, but there's a long list of recent top-10 QB's that were failures or just haven't really done anything yet, such as Bradford, Ryan, Russell, Young, Leinhart, Carr, Couch, Leaf, Leftwich, and Akili Smith have all been drafted to be franchise QB's since Manning. There have been some successes, like Eli Manning, and I guess Sanchez, Carson Palmer, Rivers, Vick even Stafford.

    There are many more failures than successes, often because QB is not the biggest need of a really terrible team with a high draft pick. With nobody to hand off to, nobody to protect the left side of the line, or a defense that can't get stops, that's a lot of pressure to put on just one player.
    Define very good. It would probably be a long shot to be contending in the next 4-5 years but I think there is a high chance of earning a playoff berth in the next 5 years.

    What's not reasonable is acting like 10 wins over the next 5 years is the best case scenario for the Colts. Do you think the Colts will average less than or equal to 2 wins a year for the next 5 years?

    I think it's hardly reasonable to pretend any outcome is certain over the next 5 years, especially given all of the unknowns. New staff, young players (who we have no idea how they will progress), a lot of cap space next year, etc. While it's possible everything will go wrong with building the team and cause the Colts to stink for 5 years straight, it's hardly the most likely outcome and it's not reasonable at all to be pretending like it's a certainty to happen.

    I can understanding not liking Irsay or agreeing with his moves but it's no reason to continually **** in everyone else's cheerios with the doom and gloom predictions that have little chance of actually happening.
    Last edited by Swingman; 08-27-2012 at 05:33 PM.

  18. #115

    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    [QUOTE=ChicagoJ;1496564]


    Let's just say lightning doesn't strike twice? Then what? [Quote}

    When you're talking about random lightning you're correct that it doesn't strike twice but when you're talking about someone who has exceptional talent then maybe it does. Luck doesn't have to be Manning to revive this team. He just has to be very good and he may just be very very good.

  19. #116
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Very good?

    If Luck develops, stays on his feet and healthy, and if the new GM is as good with the draft as the previous guy, they should be in the playoffs by then. But that's a lot of big "ifs". There are a lot of highly-touted QBs in the past decade that have played in very, very few NFL playoff games. The more consistent recipe for success is to build the rest of the team and put in a highly-competent but not superstar QB with them, maybe one drafted later in the first round.

    Eli Manning is sorta the exception, but the Giants really are a complete team.

    Otherwise,

    Rogers/ Packers over Ben/ Steelers - 24th pick vs. 11th pick
    Brees/ Saints over Peyton/ Colts - 32nd pick (2nd round, still a 31-team league then) vs 1st pick
    Ben/ Steelers over Warner/ Cardinals - 11th pick vs. Undrafted
    Manning/ Giants over Brady/ Patriots - 1st pick vs. 199th pick
    Peyton/ Colts over Grossman/ Bears - 1st pick vs. 22nd pick
    Ben/ Steelers over Hasselback/ Seahawks - 11th pick vs. 187th pick
    Brady/ Patriots over McNabb/ Eagles - 199th pick vs. 2nd pick
    Brady/ Patriots over Delhomme/ Panthers - 199th pick vs. Undrafted
    Johnson/ Bucanneers over Gannon/ Raiders - 227th pick vs. 98th pick

    So over the past 10 years, and 20 starting Super Bowl QB's, four of those starts went to former #1 picks (2 each to Eli and Peyton), 1 other spot to a top-ten pick (McNabb), 5 appearances to first round, but not top-ten picks... so that accounts for half of the Super Bowl QBs. Of the other ten, two were picked between the second round and pick #99, five were picked between 100-199, 1 was picked after the 200th pick and two weren't drafted at all. Half of them weren't first-rounders, let alone #1 overall's. As many undrafted SB QB's (Delhomme, Warner) as #1 picks (Manning, Manning).

    A heck of a lot more QBs taken #1 never taste the playoffs than do.

    I'm just saying, Luck is on what appears to be right now a very bad team. QB was not the Colt's biggest "need". A number of people around the league thought Manning deserved his most-recent MVP award because he was single-handedly carrying a bad football team in 2010. Which seemed to be proven out last year when he was injured. Have they improved since last year? They've made good moves for the right direction, but the real games haven't started yet so nobody can really tell how much they've improved for the current season, if any. If the Colts can draft enough talented linemen to keep Luck upright and get him through the first 2-3 seasons without a devastating injury, then he'll be going in the right direction.

    But if I were building a team right now and a QB named Manning wasn't available for the #1 pick, I wouldn't spend that pick on a QB. I'd get several more pieces in place - DL, OL, RB before investing in the QB. Because if Luck doesn't survive, then what do you have? That's why its always risky for a really bad team to invest a #1 pick in the QB position.

    = = = = = = = = = = =

    I was just saying that it always amuses me how much less tolerance there is for a "non-homer" opinion on the Colts board of PacersDigest than on the Pacers board of PacersDigest. There are many, many stories throughout NFL history of #1 QBs never tasting the playoffs than of clear success. Of course we don't know how it will play out, lightning could strike a second time. But if it does, it is still the exception not the rule.

    OlBlu doesn't have to be as difficult as he is, and when posters like to operate in a very grey area then we struggle with how to properly moderate it. Its always easier when somebody is clearly breaking the rules of civil dialogue than when somebody is trying to see how far they can push us into charcoal. But in an alternative universe, one could also acknowledge that some of his points are valid and only time will tell if Luck joins the Mannings as the rare #1 pick QB's to find the Super Bowl or if he joins the multitude of top-five pick QB's that ultimately underwhelm us. I'm just saying, there might be some over-the-top comments in this thread that ruffled my feathers too, and not all of them came from OlBlu.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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  21. #117
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    What's funny is the majority predict a losing season but are still considered "homers" because they aren't buying into the 0 wins this year and stinking for 5 years straight.

    There is more than 1 way to skin a cat when building a team and I don't think you can pass on a talent like Luck if he is available. Should they have skipped on Peyton because they had other holes to fill? Nope.

    The Colts will have a lot of cap space next year to fill some holes and probably a top 10-15 pick in the draft. Shore up the trenches and team is already at least mediocre.

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  23. #118
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    There are serious concerns even if you think some pieces are in place - the NT situation, potential O - line issue, overall concerns about the front 7 v the run, and an inexperienced WR corps (including TEs) especially with serious Collie durability questions. I'm on the record with 5 -6. I still think they could do that, but might be worse, and the long-term outlook (beyond this season) is really not assessable yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    OlBlu doesn't have to be as difficult as he is, and when posters like to operate in a very grey area then we struggle with how to properly moderate it. Its always easier when somebody is clearly breaking the rules of civil dialogue than when somebody is trying to see how far they can push us into charcoal. But in an alternative universe, one could also acknowledge that some of his points are valid and only time will tell if Luck joins the Mannings as the rare #1 pick QB's to find the Super Bowl or if he joins the multitude of top-five pick QB's that ultimately underwhelm us. I'm just saying, there might be some over-the-top comments in this thread that ruffled my feathers too, and not all of them came from OlBlu.
    I'll take Positive Polly over Negative Nancy any day. His perspective is pointless --- it does absolutely zero good to be that way. Like we all aren't aware that this team could fail? We don't need him here to tell us that --- we aren't stupid, we are quite aware. So be a productive, positive contributor, negative Nancy's do nothing but drain others.

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  25. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swingman View Post
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    What's funny is the majority predict a losing season but are still considered "homers" because they aren't buying into the 0 wins this year and stinking for 5 years straight.

    There is more than 1 way to skin a cat when building a team and I don't think you can pass on a talent like Luck if he is available. Should they have skipped on Peyton because they had other holes to fill? Nope.

    The Colts will have a lot of cap space next year to fill some holes and probably a top 10-15 pick in the draft. Shore up the trenches and team is already at least mediocre.
    Ex-friggin-actly. We're mostly predicting 6 wins, and being called homers for it.

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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    I'm sorry. Six wins is 2 games under 8-8. At least for this year, this still looks to be one of the 3-4 worst teams in the league. 3 to 4 wins? And that's assuming Luck plays all 16 without an injury.

    The iron house guard that used to

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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Very good?

    If Luck develops, stays on his feet and healthy, and if the new GM is as good with the draft as the previous guy, they should be in the playoffs by then. But that's a lot of big "ifs". There are a lot of highly-touted QBs in the past decade that have played in very, very few NFL playoff games. The more consistent recipe for success is to build the rest of the team and put in a highly-competent but not superstar QB with them, maybe one drafted later in the first round.

    Eli Manning is sorta the exception, but the Giants really are a complete team.

    Otherwise,

    Rogers/ Packers over Ben/ Steelers - 24th pick vs. 11th pick
    Brees/ Saints over Peyton/ Colts - 32nd pick (2nd round, still a 31-team league then) vs 1st pick
    Ben/ Steelers over Warner/ Cardinals - 11th pick vs. Undrafted
    Manning/ Giants over Brady/ Patriots - 1st pick vs. 199th pick
    Peyton/ Colts over Grossman/ Bears - 1st pick vs. 22nd pick
    Ben/ Steelers over Hasselback/ Seahawks - 11th pick vs. 187th pick
    Brady/ Patriots over McNabb/ Eagles - 199th pick vs. 2nd pick
    Brady/ Patriots over Delhomme/ Panthers - 199th pick vs. Undrafted
    Johnson/ Bucanneers over Gannon/ Raiders - 227th pick vs. 98th pick

    So over the past 10 years, and 20 starting Super Bowl QB's, four of those starts went to former #1 picks (2 each to Eli and Peyton), 1 other spot to a top-ten pick (McNabb), 5 appearances to first round, but not top-ten picks... so that accounts for half of the Super Bowl QBs. Of the other ten, two were picked between the second round and pick #99, five were picked between 100-199, 1 was picked after the 200th pick and two weren't drafted at all. Half of them weren't first-rounders, let alone #1 overall's. As many undrafted SB QB's (Delhomme, Warner) as #1 picks (Manning, Manning).

    A heck of a lot more QBs taken #1 never taste the playoffs than do.

    I'm just saying, Luck is on what appears to be right now a very bad team. QB was not the Colt's biggest "need". A number of people around the league thought Manning deserved his most-recent MVP award because he was single-handedly carrying a bad football team in 2010. Which seemed to be proven out last year when he was injured. Have they improved since last year? They've made good moves for the right direction, but the real games haven't started yet so nobody can really tell how much they've improved for the current season, if any. If the Colts can draft enough talented linemen to keep Luck upright and get him through the first 2-3 seasons without a devastating injury, then he'll be going in the right direction.

    But if I were building a team right now and a QB named Manning wasn't available for the #1 pick, I wouldn't spend that pick on a QB. I'd get several more pieces in place - DL, OL, RB before investing in the QB. Because if Luck doesn't survive, then what do you have? That's why its always risky for a really bad team to invest a #1 pick in the QB position.

    = = = = = = = = = = =

    I was just saying that it always amuses me how much less tolerance there is for a "non-homer" opinion on the Colts board of PacersDigest than on the Pacers board of PacersDigest. There are many, many stories throughout NFL history of #1 QBs never tasting the playoffs than of clear success. Of course we don't know how it will play out, lightning could strike a second time. But if it does, it is still the exception not the rule.

    OlBlu doesn't have to be as difficult as he is, and when posters like to operate in a very grey area then we struggle with how to properly moderate it. Its always easier when somebody is clearly breaking the rules of civil dialogue than when somebody is trying to see how far they can push us into charcoal. But in an alternative universe, one could also acknowledge that some of his points are valid and only time will tell if Luck joins the Mannings as the rare #1 pick QB's to find the Super Bowl or if he joins the multitude of top-five pick QB's that ultimately underwhelm us. I'm just saying, there might be some over-the-top comments in this thread that ruffled my feathers too, and not all of them came from OlBlu.
    The point that you're missing with this post is that up until last year, these number 1 overall pucks were getting paid outrageous amounts of money. Most rookie QB's took up a 4th or 5th of a teams cap space. When that happens, it's hard to build around a QB. But now with the new CBA in place, rookie number one overall picks are taking up very little cap space. So next year when we have cap space, its a helluva lot easier to build around a rookie QB.

    I'm not saying it'll be a quick turnaround, but plentry of teams have been able to make quick turnarounds following bad seasons (Falcons in Ryan's rookie year, Dolphins following their 1-15 season, etc) it's much more likely for us to win 5-6 games this yr but it's not completely unprecedented for us to be an above average team either.

  28. #123
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Ugh. Damn iPhone... The iron house guard that used to protect him? Yeah, Buffalo's line (BUFFALO?!??) just rendered his knee to mush.

  29. #124

    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

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    I'm sorry. Six wins is 2 games under 8-8. At least for this year, this still looks to be one of the 3-4 worst teams in the league. 3 to 4 wins? And that's assuming Luck plays all 16 without an injury.

    The iron house guard that used to
    You're correct that this may be very well one of the 3-4 worst teams but that is this year and hopefully given the amount of cap they have they will be better than that next year. We are banking on Luck being very good to exceptional. Defending ol Blu who says he same negative thing with the only purpose to annoy doesn't exactly enhance your arguments either. We are not stupid and know the odds but clearly if we have a smart coach and GM they can build this team through free agency in the short term.

    No one knows what the personnel will look like next year so it's pointless to suggest the Colts will stink ad infinitum.

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    Default Re: Another Colts Trade - Could be big - Irsay Tweet

    Even if the Colts are in the bottom 3-4 (debatable), our division and schedule are relatively weak. Isn't like the Colts are going through the gauntlet this year. A lot of winnable games even for a weak team.

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