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Thread: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBearCoffee View Post
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    Been posted already but ya, good stuff.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Riiiight, winning the Heisman is a bonafide way to identify a future superstar. Not. Ask Manning about his Heisman trophies.



    WHOO-BOY, already declaring him a LEGEND. HAHA.
    Can you not read the word probable?? But other are calling him that already and they aren't all in Washington. Check to see what Peter King says. Multiple Super Bowls in RKIII's future.... I think he is right, it seems that great QBs almost always show winning a Super Bowl. Luck won't see the playoffs in the next five years....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Ladies and Gentleman, here's your last 20+ Heisman winners, revel in the awesomeness that comprises this list:

    1989 Ware, AndreAndre Ware Houston Quarterback 1,073 38.96%
    1990 Detmer, TyTy Detmer BYU Quarterback 1,482 53.87%
    1991 Howard, DesmondDesmond Howard Michigan Wide receiver 2,077 75.50%
    1992 Torretta, GinoGino Torretta Miami Quarterback 1,400 50.84%
    1993 Ward, CharlieCharlie Ward Florida State Quarterback 1,743 83.79%
    1994 Salaam, RashaanRashaan Salaam Colorado Running back 1,743 63.15%
    1995 George, EddieEddie George Ohio State Running back 1,460 52.84%
    1996 Wuerffel, DannyDanny Wuerffel Florida Quarterback 1,363 49.38%
    1997 Woodson, CharlesCharles Woodson Michigan Cornerback/Punt returner 1,815 65.69%
    1998 Williams, RickyRicky Williams Texas Running back 2,355 85.23%
    1999 Dayne, RonRon Dayne Wisconsin Running back 2,042 73.83%
    2000 Weinke, ChrisChris Weinke Florida State Quarterback 1,628 58.86%
    2001 Crouch, EricEric Crouch Nebraska Quarterback 770 27.75%
    2002 Palmer, CarsonCarson Palmer* USC Quarterback 1,328 48.01%
    2003 White, JasonJason White Oklahoma Quarterback 1,481 53.54%
    2004 Leinart, MattMatt Leinart USC Quarterback 1,325 47.85%
    2005 Bush, ReggieReggie Bush
    (vacated)[n 1]
    USC Running back 2,541 91.77%
    2006 Smith, TroyTroy Smith Ohio State Quarterback 2,540 91.63%
    2007 Tebow, TimTim Tebow Florida Quarterback 1,957 70.52%
    2008 Bradford, SamSam Bradford* Oklahoma Quarterback 1,726 -
    2009 Ingram, Jr., MarkMark Ingram, Jr. Alabama Running back 1,304 46.99%
    2010 Newton, CamCam Newton* Auburn Quarterback 2,263 81.55%
    I was only pointing out that RGIII has beaten Luck at every opportunity. He will continue to do that for his entire career. Think ten years from now when Colts fans look back and say, "We could have had RGIII" because that is exactly what is going to happen. It is already happening with fans that have any sense at all.......

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    I don't care where they are --- anyone declaring RG3 a probable legend after 7 games needs to have their head examined.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacergeek View Post
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    if those two things happen, then yes i will concede. However, if the colts win 9 games, then Luck should win MVP
    No. The MVP goes to a player on a Super Bowl contender not to a team that is barely .500.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I was only pointing out that RGIII has beaten Luck at every opportunity. He will continue to do that for his entire career. Think ten years from now when Colts fans look back and say, "We could have had RGIII" because that is exactly what is going to happen. It is already happening with fans that have any sense at all.......
    Oh RIGHT, winning the Heisman is a great indicator for future domination --- Ask Charles Woodson how many times he whooped up on Manning (runner up), and how many SB wins he had before Manning. Ask Ricky Williams how much more awesome he was than Edgerrin James.

    If anything, the Heisman has historically gone to players who went on to very lackluster NFL careers. The last guy to win a Heisman and then go on to a great NFL career was Barry Sanders --- 24 years ago.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-26-2012 at 12:49 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    As for this thread, I see this is basically the Colts forum versus O.B. I will let you guys have your fun, while I have fun watching two young men progress and grow as QB's.


    Ah, don't worry about that. Me against the forum is a mismatch for the forum. They can't win this argument with all of the stats and comments around the NFL so clearly favor RGIII....

  8. #983
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Yea, you certainly have us mentally outclassed, Oh Wise One.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I have and EVERYONE that I have read says what I said about RGIII. Luck does not have better stats than RGIII. RGIII is rated as the third best QB in the entire NFL with the highest completion percentage. Luck is listed 31 out of 32 with the worst completion percentage. Only one method of ranking show Luck rated highly and everyone on here jumps at that one. When every other method shows that he is awful, then there is something wrong with that method. Luck is not better, he has not been better, he did not win the Heisman, he will be rookie of the year and if he doesn't get injured he will be the offensive player of the year because he has so many tools. Luck is a chucker. That is it, that is all he is and that is all he has got... He will never be close to the great and probably legend, RGIII. RGIII is better than Michael Vick and he has been raised to have discipline. He graduated from college in three years while playing football. The young man is smart, talented, driven and he was raised in a military family that makes him more disciplined that Luck will ever be. Face it and admit it, be a man, the Colts bit the big one when they picked Luck over RGIII which is just what I said before the draft.......
    Lets see would I take a political science major at Baylor over a architectural degree at Stanford?

    Lets face Olblu just talks a big game because he has nothing to lose. He's been more wrong this year than he's been right and he has shown he doesn't understand salary cap, FA signings and among other things football in general.

    He's been reduced to a pathetic man if thats what he is that hates Irsay and gets off on pushing real colts fans buttons.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Yea, you certainly have us mentally outclassed, Oh Wise One.
    You may not like it but, in fact, I do exactly that. I will win this argument over the years just like I won the debate on who to draft, Luck or RGIII... You will never admit it but people will know it is true....

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    The fact that RGIII is the only thing that OlBlu can talk about right now is actually a good thing. It means the Colts are so far having a solid season. He can't talk about how awful a season the Colts are having because we are a .500 team and have surprised everyone. The most he can say is that all three of the wins are because the other team gave us the game (he's said that about all three, right?). Of course, when we lose a game it's because we're on the verge of becoming the worst team in the NFL.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Been posted already but ya, good stuff.
    I would pay money for ESPN to stop touting their stupid QBR stat.

    I have no problem saying you think one is better, but the QBR stat is annoying. Didnt Tebow lead the league in it last year?

    I know ESPN created the QBR, but do they really need to have an article pimp that stat two or thrice a week?

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    You may not like it but, in fact, I do exactly that. I will win this argument over the years just like I won the debate on who to draft, Luck or RGIII... You will never admit it but people will know it is true....
    Only in your fantasy world, Population: One, did you "win" the debate on Luck or RG3.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    I have and EVERYONE that I have read says what I said about RGIII. Luck does not have better stats than RGIII. RGIII is rated as the third best QB in the entire NFL with the highest completion percentage. Luck is listed 31 out of 32 with the worst completion percentage. Only one method of ranking show Luck rated highly and everyone on here jumps at that one. When every other method shows that he is awful, then there is something wrong with that method. Luck is not better, he has not been better, he did not win the Heisman, he will be rookie of the year and if he doesn't get injured he will be the offensive player of the year because he has so many tools. Luck is a chucker. That is it, that is all he is and that is all he has got... He will never be close to the great and probably legend, RGIII. RGIII is better than Michael Vick and he has been raised to have discipline. He graduated from college in three years while playing football. The young man is smart, talented, driven and he was raised in a military family that makes him more disciplined that Luck will ever be. Face it and admit it, be a man, the Colts bit the big one when they picked Luck over RGIII which is just what I said before the draft.......
    As my stats said, RG3 has thrown the most balls under 10 yards. Luck has one of the highest 40+ yards passes in the league. He throws short passes all the time, that's why he has a high completion rate. Luck is way better than RG3, and the Colts made their second best decision ever, as of right now, picking Luck in the draft. You wouldn't know a good QB anyways. RG3 played in an offense at Baylor where he just chucked the ball every play and didn't even have a 50% completion rate. He won the Heisman for his athleticism, not being a QB. Everything you say is BS and you don't know football and you like overrated players like RG3.
    "We want Miami"

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    I would pay money for ESPN to stop touting their stupid QBR stat.

    I have no problem saying you think one is better, but the QBR stat is annoying. Didnt Tebow lead the league in it last year?

    I know ESPN created the QBR, but do they really need to have an article pimp that stat two or thrice a week?
    I like the premise of QBR way more than passer rating. You probly would too if passer rating didn't support RG3 so well.

    Go read up on the two stats, you'd probly find the same thing. Passer rating is antiquated and full of holes.

    My ONLY complaint, formula-wise, for QBR is that their way of quantifying clutchness is subject to the statistician's whim, and so can be faulty. But at least they *try* to measure the weight of the *situation* in which the QB performed.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-26-2012 at 01:03 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OlBlu View Post
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    You may not like it but, in fact, I do exactly that. I will win this argument over the years just like I won the debate on who to draft, Luck or RGIII... You will never admit it but people will know it is true....
    In the hood argument, yeah you will
    "We want Miami"

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I like the premise of QBR way more than passer rating. You probly would too if passer rating didn't support RG3 so well.

    Go read up on the two stats, you'd probly find the same thing. Passer rating is antiquated and full of holes.
    Fail.

    I hate stats, and suck at numbers (I balance my checkbook with software because I suck at basic math). That said, I could give two ***** which one is better. most people I know have argued NFL.com is better, but I could care less.

    So it has nothing to do with who it "supports" and everything to do with ESPN pimping their stat time after time after time

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Okay, just because you admittedly suck at it and would rather be ignorant of the inner workings of them doesn't mean me suggesting you learn up on them is a "fail", lol...

    I can see what you're saying about ESPN pushing QBR... but..... it IS their website, lol. Can do whatever they want. The reason QBR was invented was to address the universally-recognized inadequecies of the "passer rating" stat.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-26-2012 at 01:07 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    My fail was in response to this

    You probly would too if passer rating didn't support RG3 so well.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    I would pay money for ESPN to stop touting their stupid QBR stat.

    I have no problem saying you think one is better, but the QBR stat is annoying. Didnt Tebow lead the league in it last year?

    I know ESPN created the QBR, but do they really need to have an article pimp that stat two or thrice a week?
    He was 31st out of the 34 qualified.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2011
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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    My fail was in response to this

    You probly would too if passer rating didn't support RG3 so well.
    And my response to that was, and is, that if RG3 was leading the league in QBR instead of passer rating, you'd likely find QBR to be a lot less "annoying".
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    And my response to that was, and is, that if RG3 was leading the league in QBR instead of passer rating, you'd likely find QBR to be a lot less "annoying".
    ANd my response was, and still is, that I could give two ***** less.

    My annoyance with it has nothing to do with who is leading, but instead how much ESPN pimps it out.....

    Then again, I couldnt give two ***** about stats. I care about one stat, and only one: wins and losses

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    QBR comes a lot closer to putting performance into "context", which is somethign I'm always pushing on these forums. Stats don't mean jack if you don't know the context in which they were achieved. Completion percentage is subjective to many variables besides just people catching your throws a certain percentage of the time. We all know this by now; the offensive system, the strength of opponent's passing defense, the complimenting running game, etc...

    QBR tries to put stats into that context, which is why I appreciate it, even if it may not be "perfect". It's a lot closer than just plain ol' passer rating, imo.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-26-2012 at 01:18 PM.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    Then again, I couldnt give two ***** about stats. I care about one stat, and only one: wins and losses
    Ah good, you appreciate Andrew Luck's .500 winning percentage over Robert Griffin's 43%, then.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: Luck vs Griffin - let it begin.

    All fine. Granted, to me I still think it doesnt account for taking the "smart" play over forcing passes. But admitedly I am not read up on it (and even if I was I wouldnt understand it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    Ah good, you appreciate Andrew Luck's .500 winning percentage over Robert Griffin's 43%, then.
    For this week, yup. The beauty is that chnages every week for 16 weeks. Which is why I think it is nuts to judge anything until after the season (or at least until week 15 or 16 if no one makes the playoffs)

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