Not to mention a violation of the rules of PD.
See my sig. It's right there in black and white but the admins don't believe his intent is to annoy and disrupt. They somehow still believe he's just a misunderstood poster voicing his opinion.
Ol'blue is the biggest Manning fan you will ever meet
Peyton Manning rookie year- 56% cmp
Andrew Luck- 53% cmp
and his big argument on why Luck is terrible is his completion percentage? this just shows how dumb Ol'blue arguments can be
Good point but I am responding to the views and opinions that people post over and over. Some of these folks attacked me directly. I won't let that go... Others posted things that I never said. I won't let that go either.... I don't care who gets pissed off. The ignore button is made for that. If you don't want me to chime in then don't say something really foolish and address it to me. You will get it back as soon as I see it.... I have already won this argument long ago, you folks just won't admit. Before the draft I was saying that RGIII was the better pick and he would be an instant star.... BINGO!! Now, just admit it and I will let it go. If you continue to argue, I will continue to provide data that anyone who can read can see and know which one is the better QB.....
If it matters (and it really doesn't), I think Luck will have his best statistical game of the season this week. I think they will still lose because the Colts won't be able to stop the running game with their woeful defense but it won't be because of Luck.....
don't forget Luck is on pace to pass for more yards and will be very close to manning on total TD's, probably less INT's too than Manning, so what is your argument Ol'blue?
I just don't understand you Ol'blue, you hate on Luck so much, but he is having as good if not better rookie year than Manning so far and all you do is hate on him
Looks like people are starting to come to their senses:
QBR or RG3?
Updated: October 25, 2012, 5:53 PM ET
By Rick Reilly | ESPN.com
Getty Images, AP PhotoAndrew Luck, left, makes fewer errors when scrambling than Robert Griffin III.
Stop the engraver. Hold up on the parade. Tell the sculptor to take a coffee break.
Before the whole world gives Washington Redskins QB Robert Griffin III the NFL Rookie of the Year, and the MVP award, and maybe the election, let's all just wake up and smell the sanity.
Yes, he's electric. Yes, Bob has been unBoblievable. Yes, he's cuddly and handsome and the son every mother wants.
There's only one problem: He's not even the best rookie QB in the league.
The two-word rebuttal:
You don't know this because RG3 works in Washington, D.C., the media magnet where people like my friend Michael Wilbon work and watch every Redskins game and then get lightheaded and say things like what he said on radio this week, which was "RG3 is the best player in the whole league."
Whoa. We've GOT to get you DIRECTV, Mike.
Sam Riche/MCT via Getty ImagesAndrew Luck, left, posted a QBR of 68.2 compared to Aaron Rodgers' 54.7 QBR in the Colts 30-27 victory over the Packers in September.
If you had it, you'd know that Luck has been just a tablespoon better than RG3. He's thrown consistently deeper than RG3. He's been more clutch and less mistake-prone. He's scrambled better than RG3 and has run just fine. He's practically been RG4.
What is it, Mike, RG3's cute sock collection?
"It's like they're not watching Andrew Luck," says a man who analyzes quarterbacks for a living, Jeff Bennett, the curator of the most comprehensive QB stat ever invented, ESPN's QBR (total quarterback rating). "One is being called a savior. But the other is just as successful and no one seems to notice."
If you want a stat that considers everything a QB does, and when he does it, and what was at stake when he did it, then Bennett's QBR stat is for you. Going into Week 8, it had the Mannings at 1 and 2 (Peyton, then Eli), with Tom Brady third. Sound about right? In the QBR rankings, Luck is sixth and Griffin eighth.
But it tells you more than that. For instance, it tells you:
- Luck runs more successfully than Griffin. He's had 10 scrambles for first downs. Griffin has had nine.
- Luck is asked to do more than Griffin and is doing it. His average pass completion travels 8.6 yards in the air, highest in the NFL. Griffin's is 5.8, one of the lowest.
- Luck is more valuable to his team than Griffin. Sixty-nine percent of the Colts' passing yards are gained while the ball is in the air, the rest after the catch. Only 49 percent of the Skins' passing yards come through the air. In other words, Griffin still has his training wheels on. Luck has his license.
What is it, Mike, all of RG3's Subway ads?
Wait! I'm clairvoyant! I know exactly what you're going to say next!
Reilly, you single-celled organism. Griffin leads the NFL in completion percentage! He's third in the league in passer rating! Luck is second to last! Oh, you mean NFL passer rating, the most useless stat in football? The 41-year-old fossil that was invented, literally, on a slide rule? The one that doesn't even consider running or fumbles or time of game or score? Yeah, I know that stat. That stat is the whole problem.
RG3 kills in that stat because he's nibbled his way to a league-leading 70.4 percent completion rating. Given the way the Redskins have babied him, Katy Perry in heels could throw for 60 percent. More than 20 percent of RG3's passes this season haven't even traveled across the line of scrimmage. Only 6 percent of Luck's haven't. If you do a cannonball and I do a triple backflip with a McTwist and we both get straight 9s, whose dive was better?
Harry E. Walker/MCT/Getty ImagesRobert Griffin III has seven fumbles this year. Five happened when he was rushing.
I don't blame the Skins for babying Griffin. Why wouldn't they? He's America's baby. Mike Shanahan (283 games as a head coach in the NFL) has a good enough team to do that. It beat the New York Giants twice last year.
But under Bruce Arians (three games as a head coach in the NFL), Luck inherited a team that would pass nicely for a Salvation Army drop off box. The Colts have Luck and Reggie Wayne and just about nobody else. Their running backs couldn't get through a wall of Gillette Foamy. And they've already won more games this year (three) than last year (two).
What is it, Mike, RG3's fabulous hair?
If people would just look at these two guys, they'd see Luck has been even more heroic than Mr. Superhero Action Figure Guy.
Luck beat the Green Bay Packers with a TD pass with 35 seconds left. The Green. Bay. Packers. He beat the Vikings after getting the ball on his own 20 with 30 seconds left and drove downfield for the winning field goal. Against the Jags, he pulled off a miraculous game-winning march in the last minute, only to watch the Jags complete an 80-yard stunner at the end.
Don't get me wrong. If you made me choose, I'd rather watch RG3. He swerves and curves as though his hips were removed at birth. But he doesn't seem to care much about the football when he's doing it. He's fumbled five times on runs already this season, and two of them potentially cost the Redskins games. Give me Luck, who hasn't fumbled on a run once.
Look, I love both these guys. Both have been twice as good as advertised, great leaders, and kick-the-dirt humble.
But only one of them is getting any attention.
And that socks.
There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.
Yea, they do suck (the oline), and Luck has won half of his games behind that sieve. Yet another sign of what this kid is actually doing.
There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.
Ahem......Look, I love both these guys. Both have been twice as good as advertised, great leaders, and kick-the-dirt humble.
I'll give you that RG3 has mostly kept his cool, but he lets slip with some doozies sometimes, like:
Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-25-2012 at 09:38 PM.
No you pretty much struck out. Luck is not worst than Brandon Weeden, Tannehill, Cassel, Palmer, Gabbert, Bradford, RG3 Freeman, Alex Smith, Russell Wilson. Luck makes better decisions, better pocket presence, reads defense better than your golden boy griffin. Colts should have cut Manning because of the $28 million and he wasn't going to be the same as he was before and he's gonna last 3 more years anyways. Why waste that money when you can go draft the next great QB in Luck? Luck will be a star. He has a 1 or 2 win team at 3-3. Don't think RG3 could have comeback from 18 down to beat Green Bay. Losses for RG3, @ STL (awful), vs CIN (bad), vs ATL (got knocked out), and @ NYG (choke). Luck losses: @ CHI (poor defenisve effort, few mistakes, top 3 team in NFL, Bears), vs Jags (bad loss all around, defense choke), @ NYJ (terrible defense, poor offensive performance, running and catching). Stats: Redskins are #1 in the league in rushing yards. That means RG3 doesn't have to much because he hands the ball off more than he throws and he runs almost 10 times a game. He throws the most screen passes in the NFL as well. That's why his completion % is 70.4%. Luck is one of the last statistically in QB rating, because he's had two bad games throwing, last week they ran the ball for 146 yards, and he had their 2 rushing TDs. Luck has a 26.4% completion of balls thrown 25+ yards while RG3 has a rate of 13.8%. Luck has completed more 20 and 40 yard passes than RG3. Luck has more passing yards than RG3, Luck is #13 in the league in passing yards, while Griffin is 21st. Luck has attempted 250 passes this season, RG3 has only 189. RG3 has rushed for 468 yards this year, which limits his passes, which doesn't make you a good QB, on mostly designed runs. Luck has 115 yards rushing on almost all scrambles. Stats never lie, Luck is a better QB, not a better runner or athlete than RG3 is, but a better QUARTERBACK. RG3 is just an athlete with a canon of an arm.
"We want Miami"
Another saying he'd take Luck over RG3:
Bob Kravitz: Despite statistics, I like Andrew Luck over Robert Griffin III
6:52 PM, Oct 25, 2012
Robert Griffin III (left) and Andrew Luck (right). / Associated Press and Star file photos
The kid is everywhere. I see Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III on my TV hawking Subway. I put on "Pardon the Interruption" and Michael Wilbon is talking about him as an MVP candidate. I go to usatoday.com, and there's an exclusive Q-and-A with Griffin in which he talks about how he views himself as a superman on the football field.
Robert Griffin III has become Tim Tebow with braids.
He's this year's model, America's new sports superstar.
I can just imagine being in an ESPN producer meeting: Tebow is old news. We've got to mention Griffin six times an hour. That comes from the top.
And good for him. He's a smart, young, electric player with a great personality, a highlight reel for a franchise that hasn't had much luck at the quarterback position in recent years. You will not here a negative word from here about Griffin, who has been everything Washington wanted and more.
All of that said, I'll take the Indianapolis Colts' Andrew Luck.
Lest you think I'm being a homer who is wearing blue-and-white blinders, let me remind you, I always took New England's Tom Brady over former Colt Peyton Manning in that particular debate.
Let me steal -- not semi-plagiarize, but flat-out steal -- some advanced statistics that were shared in a recent New York Times Fifth Down blog by Chase Stuart.
(Columnist's note: This involves a lot of math. I don't like math. I took Physics for Poets at Indiana University to fulfill my math and science obligation. I don't know what a lot of these numbers mean, but they look like they mean something, so here goes.)
Griffin exceeds Luck in most traditional statistical categories: His 70.4 completion percentage is the best in the league; Luck is 32nd at 53.1. Griffin is averaging 8.5 yards per attempt, Luck 6.7. Griffin is third in traditional quarterback rating; Luck is second to last.
But look at the stats that Stuart considered, advanced metrics that tell the fuller story, and you come away believing that Luck is having a very good year, an underrated season.
Essentially, the Colts have put a lot more pressure on Luck than Washington has on Griffin.
Luck's average pass attempt is the longest in the league at 10.2 yards. Griffin is at 7.9, below the league average of 8.2.
Luck's average pass distance on his completions is 8.6 yards, also the highest in the league; Griffin is at 5.8.
Only 7 percent of Luck's passes have been targeted to running backs, one of the lowest ratios in the league. He throws to his wide receivers a league-high 72 percent of the time. Griffin, by contrast, has checked down with far more frequency. He is last in the league in passes thrown 15 yards or more down the field.
"Is that right?" Luck said when I shared those numbers. "I didn't know any of that."
Interim coach Bruce Arians said it's all part of the grand design: "If you go back and look at my history, I throw it deep more than anybody in the league. We do spread people out and throw it quickly; we think we have everything, but we also use our tight ends and backs to help the offensive line. We want to throw it to the guys who are paid to catch it, and hand it off to the guys who are paid to run it. We're not a West Coast offense by any means."
Look, numbers can tell any story you want them to tell. We know this to be especially true in a political season, when candidates are casually tossing out numbers -- some of them accurate -- to buttress their cases.
But I think a reasonable conclusion can be reached: The Colts are relying more on Luck to throw the ball downfield than Washington is with Griffin. There's a good reason Luck's completion percentage is so low; he's always putting pressure on a defense by going intermediate and deep.
This isn't from the Times, but ESPN ranks Luck sixth in its quarterback rating, behind Denver's Peyton Manning, the Giants' Eli Manning, Brady, Atlanta's Matt Ryan and Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger. Griffin is eighth.
The bottom line being, they've both been very good given the talent around them and given what their teams ask them to do. It has always seemed foolish to me to build up one player and denigrate another to make a point. Both have been worth the investment as Nos. 1 and 2 picks. Both have walked into difficult situations and produced. And as my old friend and former Colts executive Bill Polian said recently, someday, we may be seeing the pair match up in an early-February Super Bowl down the road.
This will not be a Peyton Manning-Ryan Leaf kind of draft.
Not a chance.
So, I asked the question of Luck, knowing the answer before it was asked: "Does it bother you that ESPN can't go five minutes without mentioning RGIII?"
He smiled. "I'll be honest, when I watch ESPN, it's to watch news about other sports," he said. "When they talk about football, I tend to change the station. I put up a little bit of a blockade when it comes to that stuff. I don't even read what you guys write."
He laughed. "Even you, Mr. Kravitz."
Man, I'm old.
But with age comes wisdom.
Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 10-26-2012 at 09:56 AM.